Get off my turf!

[ddhlakebound]

Got a call yesterday from a landscaper who needs two medium sized oaks pieced out to prevent damage to the other close trees.

I show up today to take a look and meet the guy, and things start out fine. We look at the two dead oaks, I give him a verbal price, and we're headed back up towards my truck so I can write it up for him, making conversation about the trees, the wildlife, and the landscape along the way.

I comment that I think he's done very nice work on the property, but there's one thing I've noticed. The mulch rings should be moved away from the trunks of the trees 6-8", and gave him a few of the reasons why.

He said the labor guys were just throwing it in place, and that he went back when they were done for a final touch up. As we're talking, I start moving a bit of mulch away from the trunk with my hand, (and find 3 distinct layers of mulch, each piled to the trunk w/ each application) and immediately expose a nylon twine that's girdling the trunk, left over from planting, and a finger of 1/4" steel sticking up from the basket.

I tell him, hey, there's a twine girdling the trunk of this one, and he turns around and walks away. I didn't know if he was going to get a knife or what, so I wait for a couple minutes, then walk over to his truck.

"Did I offend you (lets call him) Chappy?

"Ya, you did. I called you here to look at those 2 trees, and you don't have no business digging around in MY trees. I don't think we need you around here, so why don't you just head on down the road."

"Fine by me, but when it comes to the root systems of landscape trees, I know what I'm talking about."

"Just git."

So I left without another word, and within a few minutes had the property owners name and #. Haven't done anything with it yet.......So.....what would you do?

1. Get over it, and move along to the next job.
2. Write the property owner a polite professional letter detailing my insights into his property and landscaper.
3. Get the owner on the phone and attempt to have a conversation about the situation.

All of the landscaper planted trees have a 3' radius, 6-8" deep pile of mulch packed in at the trunk. Looks like he's selling the guy 90 yds of mulch every year, and piling another 2" on top of whats already there around each tree. I suspect that every tree the landscaper has planted has a mass of twine and metal, and if not buried too deep are buried in mulch. None of the mature oaks in place before the house was built have any mulch at all.

 

[david miller]

I say #2 along with a brochure on mulching they do the same here. there no such thing as not to mulch against the trunk here

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

#2, if you are ready for the storm that will follow. Your bridge with that landscaper is already up in flames, so nothing to lose there. On the moral side, I think you owe the property owner the benefit of sound info.


I would avoid # 3 like the plague. Too much opportunity for it to go south.

Just a polite, professional letter detailing your concerns WITH THE CONDITION OF THE TREES ONLY!!! DO NOT BAD-MOUTH THE LANDSCAPER!!!

For all you know, he's the brother-in-law. Just keep it to the trees, and frame it as a professional disagreement if you have to even mention the landscaper. Do NOT comment on his attitude or knowledge.

 

[jefflovstrom]

#2- Shows you care. I wouldn't let it go tho, the landscaper might throw you under the bus when asked why the trees are dying.
Jeff

 

[lxt]

Ran into similar with a home owner who had their yard "professionally" landscaped.....went there to look at a couple of ash trees to make sure no EAB`s were present.

while there the gentleman tells me several of his plantings are looking a lil "sour"...........plums, crabs & pears (sounds like an STD uh?) anyway....all of them were volcanoe mulched almost 18inches high & all of them had the rootball cage still intact.

so mr. tree guy whatya think ? I told him how it should be done & to double check.....whats sad is the landscaper recommended me as I come to find out after the fact!! so I called the lanscaper & told him about the problem, of which he said......thats how I do all my plantings, never had a problem, why ya busting my balls?

Long story short........this pro landscaper is far from a pro & even though he recommended me....I told him I wont recommend you, needless to say many of his customers have had their plantings redone by me & a few opther reputable companies.....just inform them whats wrong & what can happen....hopefully they`ll have it corrected.



LXT....................

 

[Blakesmaster]

I would go with number one personally. It's hard to get the info out there without looking like you're trying to either bad mouth the other guy or scrounge up work for your self. If you really care that much about the trees and not the contract go with your second option but do it anonymously.

 

[capetrees]

#1
The landscaper now knows what he need to do to correct the problem and most likely will do so. When you write a letter like in #2, the owner will see the job alrerady done and will think of you as a know it all and will have more belief in his guy. The trees will be coming down by someone else so I'd just walk. Next time, just stick to what's asked of you. It gets you in trouble a lot less. I've been in this situation before and in the end, when the trees died, nobody blamed me because I wasn't asked for my input.

 

[ddhlakebound]

#2, if you are ready for the storm that will follow. Your bridge with that landscaper is already up in flames, so nothing to lose there. On the moral side, I think you owe the property owner the benefit of sound info.


I would avoid # 3 like the plague. Too much opportunity for it to go south.

Just a polite, professional letter detailing your concerns WITH THE CONDITION OF THE TREES ONLY!!! DO NOT BAD-MOUTH THE LANDSCAPER!!!

For all you know, he's the brother-in-law. Just keep it to the trees, and frame it as a professional disagreement if you have to even mention the landscaper. Do NOT comment on his attitude or knowledge.

No bridge to burn, I just met Chappy for the first time today.

It occurred to me that he could be a friend or relative of the owner. Wouldn't that be a nice little hornets nest to jump into. It seems pretty impossible to pass along any info without indirectly bad mouthing Chappy.

#2- Shows you care. I wouldn't let it go tho, the landscaper might throw you under the bus when asked why the trees are dying.
Jeff

No liability or reputation risk to me right now, I've never been on the property before today.

I would go with number one personally. It's hard to get the info out there without looking like you're trying to either bad mouth the other guy or scrounge up work for your self. If you really care that much about the trees and not the contract go with your second option but do it anonymously.

Thats the one thing that's making me stop and mull it over. I don't want to seem to be scrounging work (and I'm really not), but Chappy just pretty much pissed me off in his arrogant petulance, and I'd really love to have his work exposed for what it is, whether I ever work a minute on the place or not.

But the owner is a fairly big name dr. living in 5 acres of beautiful oaks and hickories. I care about the trees, but I'd love to have the acct. too.

 

[epicklein22]

Tough situation here, while #2 is the "right" thing to do, will it come back to haunt you if it causes more problems with the landscaper?

I would just go with number 1 and let this certain situation go. Now I wouldn't stop preaching to landscaping companies about proper planting. Teach them in a way that will show them the benefits to the homeowner and themselves when done right. Based on what I have seen from most landscaping companies (including most of the big dogs in this area), they all need a teaching on proper planting. Just a few months ago, I saw a prominent company drop in pear trees with the burlap and metal cage fully intact. Then they covered it with top soil and went to the next one.

 

[jefflovstrom]

#1
The landscaper now knows what he need to do to correct the problem and most likely will do so. When you write a letter like in #2, the owner will see the job alrerady done and will think of you as a know it all and will have more belief in his guy. The trees will be coming down by someone else so I'd just walk. Next time, just stick to what's asked of you. It gets you in trouble a lot less. I've been in this situation before and in the end, when the trees died, nobody blamed me because I wasn't asked for my input.

Well, if you want to run and hide,why are you chiming in. Go back and stand in the corner and quit trying to get others to join you.
Jeff

 

[tree md]

I'd go directly to the HO myself... Just because that would have pissed me off.... But what do I know, I'm just a tree thug...

 

[tree md]

And for what it's worth, I was taught to agitate the root system of any tree or plant with a spade before planting it and water it O'plenty... But that's just me...

Landscaping 101.

 

[TimberJack_7]

Tough situation here, while #2 is the "right" thing to do, will it come back to haunt you if it causes more problems with the landscaper?

I would just go with number 1 and let this certain situation go. Now I wouldn't stop preaching to landscaping companies about proper planting. Teach them in a way that will show them the benefits to the homeowner and themselves when done right. Based on what I have seen from most landscaping companies (including most of the big dogs in this area), they all need a teaching on proper planting. Just a few months ago, I saw a prominent company drop in pear trees with the burlap and metal cage fully intact. Then they covered it with top soil and went to the next one.

I have yet to find one tree in our area that has been planted properly. WHo was it Pattie Group?

 

[sgreanbeans]

#2, I wouldn't let that go, the landscaper WILL NOT fix it, if he has done all the layers of mulch, he doesn't know what he is doing. You are protecting the trees if anything, by contacting the HO. You can do it politely, give him some info to be found on the web to back up what u say, just may find yourself back there, correcting the problem and helping the HO get a new landscaper. I often run into the "Jack of all trades" landscaper's, have not a clue but what they learned when they worked at a bigger company, then try and go it alone, creating unseen havoc everywhere!

 

[arbor pro]

If I get called out to a jobsite by a roofer who needs a few limbs removed so he can reshingle the garage and I notice that he's doing a crappy job on the roof, it's not my ethical obligation as an arborist to alert the homeowner. I'm not a roofer - I'm an arborist. If I also do roofing on the side then, perhaps, I might say something, otherwise, I'd leave it alone.

If a landscaper is mis-managing a homeowner's trees, I feel I have an ethical obligation first, to bring it to the landscaper's attention and try to remedy the situation, then to the HO's attention if I feel the landscaper is unable or unwilling to correct the problem. What's the landscaper going to say about my intervention into the situation? - "that darn Mr Know-it-all arborist was trying to tell me how to do my job. Who does he think he is? blaa blaa blaa"

Big deal. I can live with being know as as the 'nosy know-it-all arborist'. What I can't live with is turning a blind eye to indifference and/or ignorance. I don't worship trees but, as an arborist, I consider it my ethical obligation to try to do no harm. If another contractor is doing harm, I see no problem with tactfully calling them out on it. Using tact is the key. I would avoid bashing the other contractor and simply present the situation for what it is and let the HO decide how to handle it.

JMO for what it's worth.

 

[epicklein22]

I have yet to find one tree in our area that has been planted properly. WHo was it Pattie Group?

Haha, not Pattie Group. I would like to tell you but Yarnell does a large amount of work for them and I would hate to see this somehow get through the grapevine.

We plant trees properly but one of the biggest obstacles we run into is the lack of quality concerning the plants/trees from the nurseries. Too small of root balls, sandy soil, big roots cut and dry root balls are all common problems.

 

[TimberJack_7]

Haha, not Pattie Group. I would like to tell you but Yarnell does a large amount of work for them and I would hate to see this somehow get through the grapevine.

We plant trees properly but one of the biggest obstacles we run into is the lack of quality concerning the plants/trees from the nurseries. Too small of root balls, sandy soil, big roots cut and dry root balls are all common problems.

You guys do work for DTR too don't you? I have seen some of the problems you are talking about with some of the nurseries. Seems like some of the nurseries and landscapers have the same mentality of slam it out as fast as you can, tree health be damned. I have had some luck with some of the nurseries up there in Painesville but nobody has really been asking for tree installations lately.

Talked to a guy from Davey this morning, he said all the trees in the Euclid corridor are struggling/dying. He said that it was due to improper planting techniques like leaving the cage and burlap on and not even bothering to untie the burlap where the root crown is. Yay for landscrapers. Wonder what landscape company planted all those. I constantly see nice landscaping with the trees planted improperly. Bummer.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I see it all the time too, both poor quality nursery stock, and horrendous planting.

I think some of the nurseries and many of the landscapers just see it as job security. To them (this is my impression) urban landscape plants are temporary and disposable.

There were several comments from Chappy yesterday that implied that as long as his income stream was maintained without conflict, nothing else mattered.

There are some good quality nurseries around, if you look hard enough. I've yet to encounter a good quality landscaper. I know there are some out there, I just can't seem to find one.

 

[Walt41]

I can't get past the 90 yards of mulch...I've got 5,300 plantings and only used like 50 yards...wow.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

a friends dad told me

boy, if you mind your own business you'll be busy the rest of your life