Get off my turf!

[PFirebird]

How about apologizing to the landscaper for offending him, and work toward cultivating a relationship with him that includes him benefiting from your knowledge.

 

[ddhlakebound]

boy, if you mind your own business you'll be busy the rest of your life

Umm, yeah.....the trees are my business. I don't do hack work, and I don't work as a sub for hack types. The property owner is the one footing the bill, so he's the guy I'm ultimately responsible to.

So if I've gotta choose between falling in line and being a yes man to a hack type to stay busy, I'll just spend that day hunting or fishing instead.

On a consistent basis I tactfully inform homeowners that the mulch shouldn't be against the trunk. And they're all happy to learn the facts and the whys. This is the first time I've ever had anyone take offense. Too bad for the trees. Too bad for the owner. Too bad for me. But I'll do the same thing next time too, because that IS minding my business.

 

[ddhlakebound]

How about apologizing to the landscaper for offending him, and work toward cultivating a relationship with him that includes him benefiting from your knowledge.

Probably the most reasonable and profitable suggestion so far.

But I'm too stubborn, and he's obviously too set in his ways for that to work out.

I hire a sub for this and that occasionally, and I sub in for others a few times a month. Never before had any concerns with stepping on others toes, or having my toes stepped on. But I expect top quality when I hire somebody, and they expect the same when they hire me. We wouldn't be working with each other if it were different.

 

[arbor pro]

Umm, yeah.....the trees are my business. I don't do hack work, and I don't work as a sub for hack types. The property owner is the one footing the bill, so he's the guy I'm ultimately responsible to.

So if I've gotta choose between falling in line and being a yes man to a hack type to stay busy, I'll just spend that day hunting or fishing instead.

On a consistent basis I tactfully inform homeowners that the mulch shouldn't be against the trunk. And they're all happy to learn the facts and the whys. This is the first time I've ever had anyone take offense. Too bad for the trees. Too bad for the owner. Too bad for me. But I'll do the same thing next time too, because that IS minding my business.

About a month ago, I tactfully informed a HO in a pristine neighborhood that their lawn service was damaging the bases of their small trees with their mowers and trimmers. Some of them had no bark at all around the bases and were sure to die if the damage continued. I suggested they ask their landscaper to remove the sod from around the bases and install a mulch ring. It would save them trim time and be better for the trees. HO was happy to receive the information. I was sure to do all this in a non-bashing, tactful manner.

 

[BC WetCoast]

And for what it's worth, I was taught to agitate the root system of any tree or plant with a spade before planting it and water it O'plenty... But that's just me...

Landscaping 101.

The largest commercial nursery around here won't honour their guarantee if the twine is cut or the burlap and wire cage are removed prior to planting. They tie their twine in a manner that prevents the tree from being girdled.

I have ground many a stump where the tree had grown around the cage with no impact on tree growth. Most of these trees were in condo complexes and planted in tiny tree wells and were being removed because they were lifting the sidewalk 1' away.

From what I've seen, if you remove the burlap and cage, then you have to stake the tree (problem if it's a hedge).

 

[epicklein22]

You guys do work for DTR too don't you? I have seen some of the problems you are talking about with some of the nurseries. Seems like some of the nurseries and landscapers have the same mentality of slam it out as fast as you can, tree health be damned. I have had some luck with some of the nurseries up there in Painesville but nobody has really been asking for tree installations lately.

Talked to a guy from Davey this morning, he said all the trees in the Euclid corridor are struggling/dying. He said that it was due to improper planting techniques like leaving the cage and burlap on and not even bothering to untie the burlap where the root crown is. Yay for landscrapers. Wonder what landscape company planted all those. I constantly see nice landscaping with the trees planted improperly. Bummer.

Ya, I always see improperly planted trees among nice landscaping. I don't know how many ornamental and/or small trees we remove every year because of a poor job planting. Another thing is how they try to build elevation sections and cover a larger tree with 6" of dirt and compact the soil. We get a lot of removals like that too. Lastly, how many tree do you see planted wayyy to close to a house or building? Happens all the time!

Ya, we do all the work for DTR (NOT the company I was referring to earlier). Dave is very particular about his work and it really seems to come out well.

Sometimes the homeowners can be the root of the problem too, wanting too much in one spot or wanting a certain amount of foliage/coverage without properly waiting for the plants to grow. I watched a company put in arbs once, the root balls were touching! They at least cut the burlap. Supposedly the homeowners wanted them for privacy and didn't want to wait for them to grow in. I'm sure we will be back to take some out down the road when they grow like crap.

 

[epicklein22]

The largest commercial nursery around here won't honour their guarantee if the twine is cut or the burlap and wire cage are removed prior to planting. They tie their twine in a manner that prevents the tree from being girdled.

I have ground many a stump where the tree had grown around the cage with no impact on tree growth. Most of these trees were in condo complexes and planted in tiny tree wells and were being removed because they were lifting the sidewalk 1' away.

From what I've seen, if you remove the burlap and cage, then you have to stake the tree (problem if it's a hedge).

Yup, you have some legit situations where it can be ok to do as you say. I know some people will leave the burlap and cage intact if in a windy area to prevent blow over. Otherwise, you would have to stake them

On really large trees, we cut the top of the metal cage off and cut a few other spots. We then undo all the twine and pull the burlap down the best we can (might cut some excess off) and then start with the soil. If you can remove the cage and not have any issues, I would do it. I was injecting some pin oaks last week for chlorosis and actually cut out a few pieces of metal that was girdling the tree.

 

[epicklein22]

I see it all the time too, both poor quality nursery stock, and horrendous planting.

I think some of the nurseries and many of the landscapers just see it as job security. To them (this is my impression) urban landscape plants are temporary and disposable.

There were several comments from Chappy yesterday that implied that as long as his income stream was maintained without conflict, nothing else mattered.

There are some good quality nurseries around, if you look hard enough. I've yet to encounter a good quality landscaper. I know there are some out there, I just can't seem to find one.

Good post here. The company I work for has done a lot of work for landscaping companies. They want "good" work to cover their reputation but if they can find anyone to do it cheaper or put more money in their pocket, you can usually say bye bye to anymore future work unless the new company slips up.

 

[fishercat]

I agree.

I would go with number one personally. It's hard to get the info out there without looking like you're trying to either bad mouth the other guy or scrounge up work for your self. If you really care that much about the trees and not the contract go with your second option but do it anonymously.

I would have done what you were called there to do and nothing more.You stuck your nose where it didn't belong and paid the consequences.

 

[CUCV]

Make up with him and make it into a profitable venture. Tell him part of the landscape package should be stripping the mulch occasionally. Let him sell it and help him do it while your at it fix some of the other problems...

I do a ton of sub work and have a fair amount of others sub for me, everyone should be careful not to step on others toes doing business like this. Often I have been a sub on a job and the HO figures out I'm a sub and want me to work directly, painstakingly I try to stay loyal to the person who asked me to sub for them.

Probably the most reasonable and profitable suggestion so far.

But I'm too stubborn, and he's obviously too set in his ways for that to work out.

I hire a sub for this and that occasionally, and I sub in for others a few times a month. Never before had any concerns with stepping on others toes, or having my toes stepped on. But I expect top quality when I hire somebody, and they expect the same when they hire me. We wouldn't be working with each other if it were different.

 

[tree md]

Next time tell him hey you, get off of my cloud!

 

[treemandan]

Got a call yesterday from a landscaper who needs two medium sized oaks pieced out to prevent damage to the other close trees.

I show up today to take a look and meet the guy, and things start out fine. We look at the two dead oaks, I give him a verbal price, and we're headed back up towards my truck so I can write it up for him, making conversation about the trees, the wildlife, and the landscape along the way.

I comment that I think he's done very nice work on the property, but there's one thing I've noticed. The mulch rings should be moved away from the trunks of the trees 6-8", and gave him a few of the reasons why.

He said the labor guys were just throwing it in place, and that he went back when they were done for a final touch up. As we're talking, I start moving a bit of mulch away from the trunk with my hand, (and find 3 distinct layers of mulch, each piled to the trunk w/ each application) and immediately expose a nylon twine that's girdling the trunk, left over from planting, and a finger of 1/4" steel sticking up from the basket.

I tell him, hey, there's a twine girdling the trunk of this one, and he turns around and walks away. I didn't know if he was going to get a knife or what, so I wait for a couple minutes, then walk over to his truck.

"Did I offend you (lets call him) Chappy?

"Ya, you did. I called you here to look at those 2 trees, and you don't have no business digging around in MY trees. I don't think we need you around here, so why don't you just head on down the road."

"Fine by me, but when it comes to the root systems of landscape trees, I know what I'm talking about."

"Just git."

So I left without another word, and within a few minutes had the property owners name and #. Haven't done anything with it yet.......So.....what would you do?

1. Get over it, and move along to the next job.
2. Write the property owner a polite professional letter detailing my insights into his property and landscaper.
3. Get the owner on the phone and attempt to have a conversation about the situation.

All of the landscaper planted trees have a 3' radius, 6-8" deep pile of mulch packed in at the trunk. Looks like he's selling the guy 90 yds of mulch every year, and piling another 2" on top of whats already there around each tree. I suspect that every tree the landscaper has planted has a mass of twine and metal, and if not buried too deep are buried in mulch. None of the mature oaks in place before the house was built have any mulch at all.

Haha, just GIT then! Hell, if you sold 90 yards of mulch then you would be the one walking around trying to find a dumbass tree climber to handle the dead sticks for you.
And its just not nice going round picking on the scrapers... but it sure is fun. Shame to see all that mulch though. Black dyed? Can't keep it on the shelf around here. I rarely touch the stuff myself but I am glad these guys have grinders to make it cause it makes it easier to dump debris.

 

[capetrees]

Well, if you want to run and hide,why are you chiming in. Go back and stand in the corner and quit trying to get others to join you.
Jeff

???
Who's running and hiding? And where am I asking someone to join me?

BTW, the OP asked for comments on three ideas and I picked one.

Stop posting while you're drunk. :crazy1:

 

[oldirty]

???
Who's running and hiding?

you are, gayboy.

 

[jefflovstrom]

???
Who's running and hiding? And where am I asking someone to join me?

BTW, the OP asked for comments on three ideas and I picked one.

Stop posting while you're drunk. :crazy1:

I don't drink, d u m b a s s !
Jeff

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I don't drink, d u m b a s s !
Jeff

What do you drink, then? Pale Bass is pretty good, I hear.

I would write the jerk and let him know how trees are mulched, correctly. I would include a link to a site that details how to swale and berm mulch around trees. I see volcano mulching around here, ad nauseum. If I did not see the mulch rearranged in a month's time, I'd follow up with a note to the ho. I did a similar thing in Austin, involving girdling cords tied to tree stakes, and I went through some real crap over it. In the end, the trees were saved, though, so I was glad I stuck with it.

 

[treevet]

pictures!...pictures are worth a thousand words. pictures of the excessive mulch...pictures of the girdling string and cage (or future girdling)

pictures from the internet (ISA) with descriptions of these situations and consequences

then a very polite letter to the homeowner explaining you witnessed a negative tree planting practice that you are ethically bound to report

copy to the landscaper. I do it all the time. Gets it out of your mind and the ball is out of your court.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Our tortoise just pooped on our turf, really.
Jeff

 

[treevet]

pictures!...pictures are worth a thousand words. pictures of the excessive mulch...pictures of the girdling string and cage (or future girdling)

pictures from the internet (ISA) with descriptions of these situations and consequences

then a very polite letter to the homeowner explaining you witnessed a negative tree planting practice that you are ethically bound to report

copy to the landscaper. I do it all the time. Gets it out of your mind and the ball is out of your court.

also I would sell some waterbags too if I was going to attempt a takeover of that client and wanted to look REAL smart. I probably would not do this if I had an established relationship with the landscaper.

But then again like DD lake said.....I wouldn't have an established relationship with a half ass dude like that.

 

[jefflovstrom]

also I would sell some waterbags too if I was going to attempt a takeover of that client and wanted to look REAL smart. I probably would not do this if I had an established relationship with the landscaper.

But then again like DD lake said.....I wouldn't have an established relationship with a half ass dude like that.

Uh, the word ' oxymoron' comes to mind!
Jeff