Ghetto grapple skidder idea

[Jim Timber]

I've got some areas I'd like to open up, but don't want big equipment to fit when done (like pulling a single cull tree out of a young stand). I've been planning on using a logging arch behind my atv, but then it dawned on me - a utility tractor/backhoe would just need a grapple fabbed up, and I'd have better pulling power.

So is this idea nuts? I can do all the fab work, I just don't know if a bucket boom would hold up to being tugged on like that? My biggest trees are only 18" DBH, and I already figured on topping them before dragging out.

I also need the hoe for digging stumps and such, so it wouldn't be a special purchase.

 

[northmanlogging]

a 20' hemlock 18" dbh weighs in the neighborhood of 1500 pounds, picked hemlock becouse its sort of a middle weight between hard woods and soft woods. Then factor in drag from the dirt, and getting hung up on stumps etc. There be allot of weight hanging of the back of your tractor. And a grapple adds a bunch of leverage to that. Not to mention the grapple itself will end up at a guess around 500 pounds at least if'n ya want it to stay together for more than a few days. Anyway can your tractor handle that much hanging off its three point? Will the front wheels stay on the ground?
A better option is the commercially available skidding winchs such as the Farmi and other brands. Tractor logging can be done Ya just have to be very careful where you go with your tractor, you don't have the sheer weight of a skidder or the maneuverability of articulation or tracks, Not to mention the cage forestry machinery comes standard with

 

[rwoods]

Two thoughts for you to consider: 1) IMO a utility tractor with a backhoe would be maxed out with just a small log. Check with a reputable dealer and you will hear of utility tractors that have been broken in half just hauling heavy round hay bales (without a backhoe) down the highway. The drive train of utility tractors aren't designed for the shock loads imposed by bouncing or hitting objects while carrying a lot of weight. Also a backhoe's downriggers are used to support the load during digging. 2) Before you buy a backhoe to dig stumps, go rent one and run it for a day doing this - there is a reason that landclearers typical push trees over and then cut them up rather than cut them down and dig stumps. I think you'll find that digging stumps with a real backhoe is hard enough without trying to do it with a utility tractor. Ron

 

[Jim Timber]

Utility tractors don't have 3pt hitches. They have a loader, and a hoe. The hoes that come off are typically junk - so I'd get one that's built as one, not had one added as an after thought.

I can buy the whole tractor for $5K. Renting one would cost a good chunk of that. I need the hoe to build a couple ponds, and maybe dig some holes. Digging stumps is a bonus if I'll do it.

My main trees I'll be cutting are aspen and basswood - pretty light stuff. The oaks and maple will only be cut in certain areas. Elm, birch, and hop hornbeam (ironwood) fill out the list, but I don't have much of those three.

 

[jnl502]

I've used a mid sized older tractor, a 601 workmaster Ford with a log arck mounted to the 3 point tractor and it worked pretty good but if I was doing another job I would upgrade. A 444, 454 IH with good brakes and good rubber that is liquid filled or I put new rubber have them foam filled. Build a log arch with swivel wheels on the bottom like the ones on a bush hog rotery cutter to help hold weight off of the 3 point. Then a chain and wench setup. You get the idea as for the stumps maybe a skid steer. You could dig around the tree and pull it over. I have done this and it can be done safely if planed. Good luck with your plans
jnl

 

[rwoods]

I'm a Deere man and this is what Deere considers an utility tractor:

Since you mentioned an atv log arch, I assumed in error that you were talking about a compact utility tractor:

Anyway, a good size dedicated backhoe shouldn't have any problem dragging a log of the size you described but there are better ways to do this. Of course if skidding logs is only secondary to digging holes then a backhoe makes a far better choice than trying to dig with a skidder. Ron

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[northmanlogging]

a log "arch" with tongs is another way just make sure to put a swivel on the tongs! Utility tractors that I am familiar with have a three point hitch, The front loader is an option, the backhoe (that attaches to the three point...) is an option. The Backhoe that yer probably thinking of as a "utility" tractor is a BACKHOE and is special built one piece unit. As mentioned before the out riggers keep it from tipping over. And as a side note most of them if ya put the front loader up about half way and dump the clutch it will do some awesome wheelies, that's with the rear bucket tucked in and empty...(bosses hate this:msp_w00t

 

[jnl502]

A decent backhoe is going to run in the 12-15 K range and on flat ground would do the job. But, is like rideing a rocking chair. On uneven ground an accident waiting to happen.
I have seen people use 4x4's to skid logs and seem to do well. If you had a deicated 4x with some 8 ply trencher type tires with chains and welded up diff's would work pretty well. A arch welded in the bed with a wench to pick it up and tongs on a short chain. Weld a chain hook on the arch and just hook the chain on and wench it up. A good 4x can be had for $2500 or less and build it for off road only.
jnl

 

[Jim Timber]

I've thought about building a dedicated "mule" to haul logs around. Like a skidder someone put in water and shrunk. I could start with a little 100hp 4 banger, mate it to a wicked gear reduction, and then hook it up to a couple narrowed front axles and have 4 wheel steering. Fluid filled tires for weight, and a roll cage to keep the widow makers out.

I'm actually talking to a guy who's got an old airport "tug" to possibly use as a donor vehicle. It's got a chrysler 225ci I-6 and a double gear reduction already - I just don't know how well that thing would adapt to being lifted for more ground clearance. Right now, it's 7" off the pavement, and that won't fly in my boulder pocked dirt. If it was flat, that thing would probably be perfect with some ag tires instead of the turf ones they come with.

 

[psuiewalsh]

You need a loader with a utility bucket. Really hauls out the splits too.

 

[Jim Timber]

I've got about 5 of the CL listings saved for loaders - all of them are over 10K, and I just don't have that much money at the moment.

I need to sell some wood or win the lottery before I can buy decent gear. Right now I'm trying to get it done on the cheap.

 

[rwoods]

I've toyed with the idea of making one of these into a poor man's skidder - four wheel steer (crabs, too), plantary axles, Turbo 400 automatic tranny, 6.2 diesel, top speed high gear high range about 25mph, weighs about 5 tons, and I believe cold A/C. Unfortunately, if I went through with it I may have to call it home. Ron

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[psuiewalsh]

I've toyed with the idea of making one of these into a poor man's skidder - four wheel steer (crabs, too), plantary axles, Turbo 400 automatic tranny, 6.2 diesel, top speed high gear high range about 25mph, weighs about 5 tons, and I believe cold A/C. Unfortunately, if I went through with it I may have to call it home. Ron

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That would be an awsome snow pusher

 

[Jim Timber]

I put my offer in of 300 on the tug, the guys asking 700 trade items - probably won't get it, but who knows.

It's roughly scrap value, and I'm sure he knows that.

 

[rwoods]

That would be an awsome snow pusher

Most were released to the public a few years ago. The Dodges and Jeeps are up now. Too bad they are 2wd. They have nice Cummins engines though. Some others are 4wd with planetaries; I believe they have 4 cylinder Perkins. Ron

Rear view of Chevy

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[rwoods]

I've got about 5 of the CL listings saved for loaders - all of them are over 10K, and I just don't have that much money at the moment.

I need to sell some wood or win the lottery before I can buy decent gear. Right now I'm trying to get it done on the cheap.

There's a bunch of these JD644s coming up for auction. Unfortunately, they are all in Georgia. But if you keep a look out there maybe one at some militrary base near you. Ron

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[Jim Timber]

The guy came back with $500 on the tug. I'm curious about what rear end is in it, and how hard it would be to lock. The size is right, the price is close to right, and I'd just need to find a divorced transfer case to stuff in it to enable 4wd and slap a new live axle under the front, then lift it some.

I'm not crazy about the chrysler engine, but I can't buy a decent garden tractor for the same money.

 

[psuiewalsh]

There's a bunch of these JD644s coming up for auction. Unfortunately, they are all in Georgia. But if you keep a look out there maybe one at some militrary base near you. Ron

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Dads loader pictured previously is 644B. It is very handy esp with the utility bucket. We were notching 20" oaks and pushing them over with no issues. then cut the log at 17' and carry to the pile. Also very quick to cut off firewood rounds as the whole tree is held up off the ground.

 

[psuiewalsh]

The guy came back with $500 on the tug. I'm curious about what rear end is in it, and how hard it would be to lock. The size is right, the price is close to right, and I'd just need to find a divorced transfer case to stuff in it to enable 4wd and slap a new live axle under the front, then lift it some.

I'm not crazy about the chrysler engine, but I can't buy a decent garden tractor for the same money.

I wonder if you find the right transfer case you could add a hydraulic pump and add alot of possibilities

 

[rwoods]

The guy came back with $500 on the tug. I'm curious about what rear end is in it, and how hard it would be to lock. The size is right, the price is close to right, and I'd just need to find a divorced transfer case to stuff in it to enable 4wd and slap a new live axle under the front, then lift it some.

I'm not crazy about the chrysler engine, but I can't buy a decent garden tractor for the same money.

Can't help you with axle question. No really experience but I have been told that the Chrysler industrial engines have a good reputation. Some Clark forklifts had the slant 6 which I know is a good engine. When your $ allows buy one of these and you'll have a backhoe and skidder potential. Last I checked they were going for around $15,000 straight off the base. Some are pristine and some are dogs. Many even include a hydraulic chainsaw thrown in the tool box. This one looks pretty good and is up for sale now. Ron

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