Giant mulch rings...never seen one, and don't believe in them!

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Do you REALLY believe that those evil monocots are killing off the plants that support your livelihood? I personally think that this perspective is a variety of elitism, where YOUR favorite plant is somehow more important than the others.

Actually, I'm saying that landscaping is unnatural and needs management, as well as education of the owners. My first question of a potential client is "What are your desired results?".

A tree guy who does not understand nonwoody plants limits his ability to serve his clients.

by Vaden
Actually, there are turfgrasses that are supposed to be able to take care of some soil compaction, in ways that mulch could not do.

by Sanborn
...perennials I like, especially if they are deep rooting prairie types that will help with water penetration....but that is another thread.

This would include bluestem and the like. Yes the rhizomatous will help as they tiller, but not to any real depth.
 
Do you REALLY believe that those evil monocots are killing off the plants that support your livelihood?

I believe the efforts @
cultivating and mowing a crop of turfgrass
actually increases my bottom line as an arborist. The damage caused leads to more deadwood pruning, removals and IPM/PHC billing.
You guys have enhanced my livelihood.
 
Watch it there, woodweasel. Don't lump me in with the lawn guys.

I'm a switch hitter, I go both ways! I must be a prostitute of sorts, cause I charge for my services, too.
(trees or lawn, what the heck, I'll even landscape)

:jester:
 
Watch it there, woodweasel. Don't lump me in with the lawn guys.

I'm a switch hitter, I go both ways! I must be a prostitute of sorts, cause I charge for my services, too.
(trees or lawn, what the heck, I'll even landscape)

:jester:

Duly noted. :cheers:
 
If you have to ask why it would be important to have mulch out past the drip line then you need to look no further than nature. It is not necessarily needed but if you want your tree to be as healthy as possible you would want to memic nature. The mulch will keep the soil moist as well as keep it from getting compacted. The mulch will also add nutrients to the soil as it breaks down.

I often tell customers that the healthiest trees are found in forests where the leaves fall and remain for the tree to take back at some future point. There is rarely grass consuming the natural fertilizer and no ones is taking the leaves out of the forest. But many times we may be sitting in front of a tree with a nice lawn and the tree is healthy. Go figure. I have not sold too many customers on mulching their yards or leaving their leaves lay.

Trees are amazing things as we have all seen trees survive and even thrive in some of the most unlikely places.
 
If you have to ask why it would be important to have mulch out past the drip line then you need to look no further than nature. It is not necessarily needed but if you want your tree to be as healthy as possible you would want to memic nature. The mulch will keep the soil moist as well as keep it from getting compacted. The mulch will also add nutrients to the soil as it breaks down.

I often tell customers that the healthiest trees are found in forests where the leaves fall and remain for the tree to take back at some future point. There is rarely grass consuming the natural fertilizer and no ones is taking the leaves out of the forest. But many times we may be sitting in front of a tree with a nice lawn and the tree is healthy. Go figure. I have not sold too many customers on mulching their yards or leaving their leaves lay.

Trees are amazing things as we have all seen trees survive and even thrive in some of the most unlikely places.

I've seen leaves under trees at country clubs. And I'd say that the soil around those compacted far worse than trees I've seen with healthy turf and a decent thatch layer. Well maintained grass should have a small thatch layer.

Where I see leaves in forests, people are not walking around them. In spots where people are walking over leaves in forests, I see compaction.

Leaves also seal gas exchange more.

The mulch scenerio seems far better. We could say that forests have a natural mulch in many areas.

In lawn situations, it's very easy to blow fine compost onto the turf for topdressing to do the same thing, accomplishing the benefits you mentioned.

I enjoy forests and nature too. Because the forest provides inspiration for several ideas.
 
I am sure you will find exceptions to almost anything you really want to.

Traffic around the base of a tree (foot or otherwise) will cause compaction. Any type of mulch will reduce that but preventing the traffic would be the real issue there...not the mulch (or leaves).

I am not here to argue with mother nature. But since you seem to be taking it in that direction....

Tell me why trees that were in a wooded lot (forest) seem to decline 2, 3 and 4 years after the lot is cleared and then all of the sudden the leaves are taken away and grass is added to the mix. Not only did you hurt the fine roots under those leaves by clearing it out but now you starving trees that were used to a healthy diet. I am sure nature has it all wrong and us humans know a better way.....lol
 
just a few thoughts

some thoughts

I've seen leaves under trees at country clubs. And I'd say that the soil around those compacted far worse than trees I've seen with healthy turf and a decent thatch layer. Well maintained grass should have a small thatch layer.....

are you comparing apples to oranges?

Where I see leaves in forests, people are not walking around them. In spots where people are walking over leaves in forests, I see compaction.

but probably not as bad as in a yard where someone mows the lawn each week

wood chips are often used at construction sites to allow traffic around the root zone of a tree but reduce compaction

Leaves also seal gas exchange more.

The mulch scenerio seems far better. We could say that forests have a natural mulch in many areas.

Ok...i am confused....leaves seal gas exchange more...good or bad?

Do you have scientific data to back that up? Most trees in forest are usually healthier than trees in yards...right? Or is that too general of a statement?

We could say that forests have a natural mulch...???......You could say that if you want to be right.


In lawn situations, it's very easy to blow fine compost onto the turf for topdressing to do the same thing, accomplishing the benefits you mentioned.

That is a very good point but if the layer is not substantial you will still have compaction issues if you have regular traffic in the root zone.

I enjoy forests and nature too. Because the forest provides inspiration for several ideas.
 
are you comparing apples to oranges?

No - because the example of the forest I responded to was not urban turf either. So the response door is open to versatility.

but probably not as bad as in a yard where someone mows the lawn each week

The point of comparison would be people walking on leaves in both areas or not doing so. So just as bad if it's happening. It depends on the foot traffic volume - not where it is.

Ok...i am confused....leaves seal gas exchange more...good or bad?

Why would it be good if leaves lay flat on soil in mats?

Do you have scientific data to back that up? Most trees in forest are usually healthier than trees in yards...right? Or is that too general of a statement?

In some neighborhoods probably not. In others likely. Depend on the yards. Again, it's a take each yard and each forest zone on it's own. We had a yard with forest-like conditions. Trees were probably even healthier than in the forest, because defects were removed.

That is a very good point but if the layer is not substantial you will still have compaction issues if you have regular traffic in the root zone.
Do you do stuff that is not substantial?

Not if maintained properly with appropriate thatch. If the mower tires are inflated at low pressure, or if there is no human traffic - virtually nil compaction.

You seem to stereotype forest and landscape situations. Seems that way anyhow based off some statements leaning toward forests=good and landscape=bad. Again, each tree and each landscape must be handled on an individual basis.
 
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Well those are all good points but you came off as a know it all and want to challenge the effectiveness of nature. It sure was hurting before man started ####ing it up......right? Oh...you are saying spreading fine layer of compost to top dress the soil is better...right?

I want to point out you took my comment about looking at nature as to why people suggest putting down mulch to aid in the health of the tree and turned it into a " not necessarily so" and compared how a mulched country club setting with heavy traffic is worse than a yard with a properly groomed turf with the appropriate layer of thatch.

So yes...you are comparing apples to oranges in that comparing a high traffic setting such as a country club to a properly maintained turf is not the same thing. Comparing a high traffic area with mulch to a low traffic area with mulch is apples to apples. Comparing a properly maintained turf to a not so well maintained turf is oranges to oranges.

Why mulch out to the drip line? Becuase it is good for the tree, just like nature. As I said before...it is not necessary but it is good for the tree.

Are there alternatives...yes....we believe in vertimulching trees with high compaction issues as well as poor soil environments and it works great. And the customers can maintain a nice turf with little ill effect on the tree as we put the stuff in the ground the trees need to stay healthy. Not to mention the increased movement of air and water.

I don't know it all and don't care to....but I will try to learn...but I like to see how nature does things and try to stay as close to that as possible.

And as I stated before, trees are amazing and they find ways to survive in some of the worst situations and environments and despite what man does to work against the natural setting of a tree.
 
Just some thoughts....

No - because the example of the forest I responded to was not urban turf either. So the response door is open to versatility.

What? Are you drunk?



The point of comparison would be people walking on leaves in both areas or not doing so. So just as bad if it's happening. It depends on the foot traffic volume - not where it is.
No #### Sherlock...that is what I said. Circles my friend, circles.


Why would it be good if leaves lay flat on soil in mats?

It is useless, we should get rid of all the leaves becuase it is bad. Good point. I stand corrected....lol



In some neighborhoods probably not. In others likely. Depend on the yards. Again, it's a take each yard and each forest zone on it's own. We had a yard with forest-like conditions. Trees were probably even healthier than in the forest, because defects were removed.

This is my main point with you....you talk in circles..... a yard with forest-like conditions? Please explain......and please don't break it down to the smallest most specific scenario so you can make it seem like you have a point in your favor.....a forest-like condition would be one in which leaves fall to the ground and are taken care of my mother nature....no one mowing or raking the leaves away.....what is a yard with forest-like conditions???? Does it have grass? Do they mow it? What is a yard? A yard with grass or a yard with forest-like conditions?


Do you do stuff that is not substantial?

Sometimes....and sometimes I do stuff more substantially.....but I usually know about it. Your point about top dressing was a good idea...but it does not do the job that nature does. Is it a step in the right direction...yes...but it still falls short of having mulch verse turf. Your point is good in that if you are going to have turf what could you do. My point is mulch would be better than having turf.

Not if maintained properly with appropriate thatch. If the mower tires are inflated at low pressure, or if there is no human traffic - virtually nil compaction.

Now in the real world, what percentage of yards are properly maintained and I mean by the book without any variances. And the definition of "properly" must be strict. Most of my customers are blue collare and they mow their own grass and could care less about thatch. And yes, they have compaction issues with their trees.

You seem to stereotype forest and landscape situations. Seems that way anyhow based off some statements leaning toward forests=good and landscape=bad. Again, each tree and each landscape must be handled on an individual basis.

Yes I do stereotype forest and landscape situations. In forest, trees for the most part (why I stereotype) grow just fine without human interference. The soils are usually rich becuase of the annual leaf drop that stays in the environment. The soils are moist due to the layer of leaves on the ground. Compaction is not really and issue. Defects in the trees are dealt with by mother nature. But overall the trees are healthy and most problems are solved by themselves. Yes, forest need maintenance such as TSI.

Landscapes (house, yard with grass and trees) usually have issues when the grass is cut weekly and there is heavy foot traffic. There is a wide range of landscapes but for the most part the human activity in these landscapes cause problems. Mulching around the trees (out to the drip line) would offset these problems by reducing compaction, eliminating grass and the need to mow it. The mulch will decompose and enrich the soil beneath. It will increase pore space to allow water and air to move more freely increase the trees ability to uptake nutrients.
 
Well those are all good points but you came off as a know it all and want to challenge the effectiveness of nature. .

People can get confused if they think that nature can't function in landscape settings.

That's why I pointed out the stereotype scenerio of forest=good versus landscape= bad, which I'm not a proponent of.

Nature can function in forests and in urban landscapes.

Knowing how to maintain trees in turf has been very handy even at our own home. Most of the trees are in mulched areas, but we have some doing marvelously with grass around them. Near nil pesticide use, minimal irrigatioin and good drainage.
 
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People can get confused if they think that nature can't function in landscape settings.

That's why I pointed out the stereotype scenerio of forest=good versus landscape= bad, which I'm not a proponent of.

Nature can function in forests and in urban landscapes.

Teamtree's whooped you up one side and down the other and here you are trying to change the parameters of the debate....

It's NOT about being able to function.

It is about providing the OPTIMUM environment for the trees we're caring for. When is the last time you saw grass take 60 years to start to mature?

Your circular arguments are laughable.

In lawn situations, it's very easy to blow fine compost onto the turf for topdressing to do the same thing, accomplishing the benefits you mentioned.

LoL~! Topdressing is great, but it simply will not provide all the benefits to the tree (soil temperature moderation and moisture holding) that mulching will.

Not if maintained properly with appropriate thatch. If the mower tires are inflated at low pressure, or if there is no human traffic - virtually nil compaction.

I don't doubt that a significant change in tire pressure will result in a much smaller change in the rate of compaction by increasing the contact area, but in reality virtually nobody who's spending time on a mower will run low tire pressures intentionally. Is the guy who owns the mower going to choose to work his engine harder, and burn more fuel, or will he worry about compaction first? Duh....

The laughable part is that you suggest that a sprinkling of topdressing and low tire pressures seem to you to be an acceptable substitute for mulching.

After all, they can function.

Can you show us the fake grass again? That was good for a chuckle.
 
Teamtree's whooped you up one side and down the other and here you are trying to change the parameters of the debate....

It's NOT about being able to function.

It is about providing the OPTIMUM environment for the trees we're caring for. When is the last time you saw grass take 60 years to start to mature?

Think you whooped yourself by trying to compare people. This thread is about horticulture.

The optimum environment is one of dozens of solutions that we provide for customers, since the environments in most cases are already predetermined. If the solution defeats the client's need for use of space - its not a solution. The most important thing to realize, is that our work does not deal with optimum environments for TREES - our work deals with the optimum environment for PEOPLE & trees.

Thats where some people get confused on priorities, by presenting themselves as servants of trees, rather than serving people with solutions and compromises that work long-term.

Many times, retaining moisture is not the preferred option. In our area, some of the oldest and most sturdy trees, like Douglas fir, are ones that don't have moisture retained in the surface area, because they root a bit deeper when conditions dry out in summer - considering Portland had very dry summers. And there is variation depending on whether they are groves or individual trees. Many singles in the country have grass reaching within the dripline.

My own Douglas firs, I don't mulch nor water in the summer, striving for the same long-term durability of other old trees around here. Optimum growth in this region does not mean optimum longevity or optimum sturdiness. We just let them drop the thin layer of needles which does not add up to much more than 1/4 inch.

One of the worst situations I've encountered with trees, was about 40 shore pine in Aloha, Oregon, due to moisture being retained under several inches of mulch. Half of them tilted halfway during a windstorm here, since we have heavy winds. The damage was due to moisture retention is summer causing surface area root mass. The solution included getting the area to dry out more in summer, reducing the mulch thickness. Some years later, a stronger storm passed through and the trees withstood the wind with no damage. I think a little mulch is fine to get shore pine off to a start the first few years, but not helpful after that.

Again - every tree and person's needs are an individual situation where one-size does not fit all.

Many trees we grow here are not indigenous, so most of the area does not have a natural arrangement of plant material.
 
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I think everyone has contributed a lot of information. Some is anecdotal, some are simple facts based on peoples experience or other published articles, but I think I am the only person who posted references to a scientific study of any sort. Even that reference was completely inconclusive on the topic of my original post, so we seem to have exposed an area for much needed research.

I think this thread needs some summary statements, which I encourage comments on:

1. There is the widely held belief that the bigger the mulch ring, the better it is for the tree. While this is commonly believed, I have not seen any scientific evidence for this. It is certainly true that the further you keep the lawn maintenance away from the trees, the safer they will be, given the quality of most lawn workers.

2. It has been suggested in a couple of articles that there is a greater root density under mulch beds, and less dense roots in turf areas. While I will not deny that this is likely true, how does that translate to improved health for the tree? There is a VASTLY greater root density in container grown plants (or trees planted in root impenetrable soil), but this certainly does not translate to improved health.

In my experience, the general vigor of any plant is related to how far and how deep it roots, not so much as to how "dense" it roots. It is entirely possible that the trees are rooting more densely under the mulch to their detriment, not their gain. It is well known that turfgrass which is NOT irrigated send its roots deeper and invariably survives drought much better than irrigated lawns when irrigation stop orders are issued due to low water supply. Perhaps by encouraging greater root density under the mulch, you might be reducing the trees tendency to seek water, thereby reducing it's survivability during drought (or even localized compaction). I will guarantee that the trees growing in non-irrigated areas survive drought better than irrigated trees once the water supply gets turned off by system malfunction or "stop irrigation" orders.

3. Granted, it is provable that DEEP accumulations of mulch protect the soil from compaction in construction areas. We all know that mulch piled deep enough to protect from construction equipment is not good for the trees either, so let's not use that as an argument for giant mulch rings against soil compaction.

I think that any reduction of soil compaction by sensible mulch depths of 3"-4" compared to turf are arguable and unsupported. I have driven a lot of heavy equipment through every type of terrain, including mulch beds. NOTHING supports the passage of equipment better than turf except for pavement. (Thick mulch definitely offers greater traction when wet, however) I can assure you unbelievers that if you drive across a yard and venture across a mulch bed (unsupported by tree roots or insanely deep mulch, of course) you will go down deeper into the soil. If you drive repeatedly across wet turf, you end up tearing the roots and working up a trench filled with water & mud.

4. It is provable that mulch increases soil moisture compared to turfgrass. It is also a scientific fact that increasing the moisture in the soil predisposes the soil to compaction. Hmmm...it would seem that there is a strong argument here that mulch might make compaction more likely by increasing the soil moisture compared to turf. I think it is safe to say that mulch rings will prevent soil compaction from turf maintenance operations, since they won't be in the area at all.

5. Soil compaction from turf maintenance: Clearly an issue with big heavy machines like tractors, not too much of an issue with lawn mowers. So what solutions exist for this? The lawn maintenance folks often do aeration of the lawn surfaces, particularly when compaction is an issue. Rather than suggesting giant mulch rings, I would suggest a better solution: stop any practices that cause compaction (good for both trees AND lawn), and relieve any compaction with aeration.

6. Competition from turf: As requested at my first posting, no one has offered any credible evidence that turf competes unfavorably with trees to their detriment. Comparisons to a woodland setting are ridiculous, because then the trees are competing with each other as well, provably to their mutual decline. All you need to do is look at all the dead lower branches in the forest, the misshapen trees overshadowed by superior trees, and the relative rate of growth to a tree located in a clearing.

There are many examples of allelopathy from trees against other plants, and I have no doubt that some exists in small ways from the turf to the trees. No documentation offered in this thread to support grass as the bad guys.

7. Soil fertility: While it is certainly true that hauling the leaves and branches away during grounds maintenance prevents return to the soil of those nutrients, that is a ridiculous argument favoring mulch over turf.

The leaves that fall on the ground are not replaced in "nutrient value" by ground up wood. Leaves do not have the same nutrient value that wood does, so they are not exactly interchangeable. Very few people that clean up all the leaves in the turf leave them in the mulched areas, so there is no gain to the mulch area from fallen leaves. On the other hand, there are a LOT of people that chew up the leaves with the mowers and just leave it on the ground. Net gain for the tree, turf offers the preferred results over mulch on this issue alone. There are always the people that do nothing with the leaves, in which nature is undisturbed by our actions.

It is well known that mulch often forms layers of impermeable mycelia, which require MAINTENANCE (not NATURE) to disturb and prevent. Although less common, the same thing can happen in the soil, killing off the turf, too. It is also well known that the fungal growth that decomposes the mulch prevents those nutrients present in the wood from reaching the tree until it is all reduced to compost; probably about the same time the landscaper will be asked to rake up all that old mulch and replace with newer, fresher looking mulch. Grass clippings, on the other hand, are more often left where they fall. Oops. No gain to the tree while considering leaf disposal by favoring mulch over turf, either.

[Side note: mulch does NOT "rob the soil of nutrients". It does have an absorbing effect on man-made fertilizers because the fungi that are munching on the carbon energy in the wood are starving for nitrogen. Eventually, the fungi decompose too, releasing all the proteins they captured.]

8. NATURE mulches the trees in the woodland, so why shouldn't we in a lawn: This is a silly argument. Since the conditions in a landscape are completely different than in the woods, why do you think that attempting to duplicate one facet of that ecosystem will be preferred over another facet from a different, equally successful ecosystem? One thing is pretty sure: where the prairie meets the forest (naturally growing together: grasses and trees!), the grass is growing under the trees (unmowed) and the trees have a completely different shape than they do in "the woods". Not surprisingly, this shape is what we see in our landscapes, rather than the tall, no-lower-branches, top heavy trees that are found in the forest.

I don't recall ever noticing the mulch under any prairie trees I ever walked around under, either. What I did notice was reduction in the height of the grass and a trend toward other varieties of plants at the base of the tree.

9.Erosion: When the pioneers came west across the plains, they found deep soil and very thick sod. The depth of the topsoil had accumulated over millenia, and has since been shown to be diminishing with each passing year of farming. So the soil building characteristics of grasses are well known. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any information that documents the relative rate that forests "build" topsoil. I can guarantee that turfgrass is vastly better at erosion control than mulch, since I have never seen a mulch layer stand up to running water, whereas turfgrass is better than many erosion control products sold, once established. It is pretty well understood by even the giant mulch ring proponents that once the landscape trees have eliminated the grass, soil erosion occurs and the tree roots are exposed. Their solution: add mulch! Why not add topsoil and a better erosion control product...say turfgrass?

10. More on different ecosystems: The prairie is mostly found in areas where there are two prevailing conditions: relatively low rainfall and alluvial soils that hold water. Where there is less water,you don't get sod, you get sparse collections of hardier species of plants, both clump grasses and tougher woody plants; when it really gets dry, you get cactus. Where there is only rocky soils (and sufficient water), you get trees and forest; almost no grass. Where there is lots of water, you only get forest. The grasses are only able to compete with the forests on two areas: they do survive pretty well in climates that have an unpredictable water supply, and they can survive fires. In fact, the prevalence of prairies is almost exclusively attributable to periodic drought that encourages the fires that kill off the trees. Too much rainfall, the trees take over. Too many fires, the grasses have free reign over the land. Even in forested areas following a fire, the grasses and soft stem broadleaves move in first, then get whipped later by the trees.

Where do comparisons to prairie and forest ecosystems fit with our concerns over giant mulch rings? They don't. Neither prairie nor forest really match the conditions of the modern landscape, so arguments that draw conclusions based on facts drawn from one setting and applied to another are likely to be flawed.
 
I am very pleased that this thread has had so much participation. I wish that everyone could spend more time trying to understand the opposing viewpoints, and less time wasting their efforts in silly egocentric arguments.


I hope that anyone who actually manages to read my previous, terribly long post will take the time to let me know what they think about my comments. Please! Just because we see things differently does not mean that we cannot learn from the other persons viewpoint.

I have diligently looked up every reference quoted in this thread, and I am more knowledgeable now for that effort. In some cases, I even got a tiny bit closer to making some giant mulch rings.
 
Just like most other threads on this site when someone makes a point someone usually comes on and trys to disclaim that point without really discussing the initial question at hand.

MD could have said good point and left it at that but he tried to tell us that my point was wrong. I made the statement as to you only need to look at nature to see why a mulch ring out to or past the drip line would be a good idea.

MD do you not agree with that statement? You then tried to compare a country club with high traffic as to why mulching is not a good idea. In which, the mulching was not the problem...the traffic was the problem. And in that particular case, mulching was still better than not mulching.

MD continued to try to make myself look stupid for suggesting nature had the right idea and started giving examples of things that really did not have anything to do with what this thread was about.

Why do you mulch? He never really ever said anything to give a good point on that. He proclaimed how a properly maintained turf would serve the tree well. Which again, had nothing to do with the initial thread starter question.

He can say what he wants about me and my thoughts if that makes him feel better. But please, if you want to debate about something at least keep on topic.

I even commented how he made good points for other situations but nothing he said really addressed the question at hand.

In the future, a "good point" or "interesting thoughts" would be just as good as putting someone down.
 
pdqdl....you make some great points.

And as MD pointed out as well...there are so many different scenarios in landscapes (turf, woods, forests, parks, flower beds with trees, etc. etc.) that we all deal with and in many cases trees suffer in some manner or another and we as arborists are called upon to solve those problems.

I don't think that mulching is the answer to all tree & turf issues. I simply believe it is good as it is as close as nature as we can get. I have suggested mulching thousands of times and people laugh at me when I tell them how much area a good mulching bed would take up. Some people love their grass more than anything. Are there other solutions....absolutely and it starts with good turf and soil management. We are no different than you, MD, we solve problems for our customers and treat each scenario differently. But I can say without a doubt, mulching is a good idea and it is a good idea as it duplicates nature. It is not the answer to all turf and tree issues.

It really was not a remark in which there is any debate. It is my opinion and you can like it or not. If you want to debate it and argue it...that is fine. But just stay on point MD.
 
Just like most other threads on this site when someone makes a point someone usually comes on and trys to disclaim that point without really discussing the initial question at hand.

MD could have said good point and left it at that but he tried to tell us that my point was wrong. I made the statement as to you only need to look at nature to see why a mulch ring out to or past the drip line would be a good idea.

MD do you not agree with that statement? You then tried to compare a country club with high traffic as to why mulching is not a good idea. In which, the mulching was not the problem...the traffic was the problem. And in that particular case, mulching was still better than not mulching.

MD continued to try to make myself look stupid for suggesting nature had the right idea and started giving examples of things that really did not have anything to do with what this thread was about.

Transition from the personal level to the horticultural, here are a few more ideas folks.

We have flat areas and hill areas here around Portland and Beaverton. I've encountered dozens of yards where the slope is just enough for water to wash mulch all over the place in autumn, winter or spring.

A bad choice mulch would be for those.

Each yard and each tree need to be evaluated on an individual basis. And the ENVIRONMENT is the environment of people and families and trees, not just the environment of trees.

On a slope where mulch can wash, but not too steep for mowing, turf can be the better solution. Other times, durable shrubs planted like a tall ground cover are a good option - like pygmy barberry which does pretty good with minimal water. If the foliage covers over, mulch is not essential, and the fallen leaf litter may suffice. In a sporadic erosion area that is.

Groundcovers may also work well, like Vinca, St. Johnswort or Pacchysandra. In time, ground covers could hold mulch, if the tree needs it.

Let us not just look at nature alone, but all the solutions available.

Whenever big mulch rings are employed, we not only gain benefits, but a different style of maintenance. The mulch rings can be very good for the trees. Then we merely need to tell the property owners how it changes their maintenance.

1. If it's a big leaf maple dropping thousands of viable seeds - will the seedlings be handweeded?

2. Will handweeding lead to extensive labor costs? Or will it be inconsequential?

3. What about pesticides then?

4. If pesticides - why was this maintenance path chosen?

I recall some comments by others about landscape maintenance people and damage to tree trunks if turf is near the trunk. Around here, another concern would be homeowners and landscape maintenance people applying herbicides around trees. Few arborists I know of undertake the responsibility of weed control chemically. So the handweeding would be one other alternative independent of spraying, and dependent upon will or finances.
 
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