Big Daddy
ArboristSite Operative
Global Warming is a farce. Just like Al Gore.
Global warming and burning firewood
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Brief and to the point Big Daddy...I like it!
Fire Away
Haven't read all the posts so my answer may be buried somewhere in the others....
Burning firewood does not contribute to an increase in greenhouse gases.
The carbon in wood when burned, or when the wood DECAYS is released as carbon dioxide, a part of the "natural cycle." It is fossil fuel that adds to the greenhouse effect(all those fat dinos
.
check out www.woodheat.org/firewood/firewoodbro.htm
mark
Haven't read all the posts so my answer may be buried somewhere in the others....
Burning firewood does not contribute to an increase in greenhouse gases.
The carbon in wood when burned, or when the wood DECAYS is released as carbon dioxide, a part of the "natural cycle." It is fossil fuel that adds to the greenhouse effect(all those fat dinos
.check out www.woodheat.org/firewood/firewoodbro.htm
mark
Ray Bennett
ArboristSite Guru
My grand father heats only with wood and keeps his house hot enough to warm at least half the state. Im getting upset about it because it is causing my firewood sales to drop. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
Somebody get up and put another log on the fire!
Andy
Andy
Better make it two, gonna be cold tonite!
Erick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not here, warmest night we've had in a month. Must be global warming or Ray's granddaddy left the front door open again.
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I don't believe that burning wood will hurt the environment or contribute to global warming. Maybe if every person in our country burned it we might see some effect, but I don't think there are enough wood burners compared to those who don't burn wood to cause major pollution.
I find it amusing when the EPA finds the need to regulate the 2 cycle engine so it will not pollute as much when there are so many other sources that cause more pollution on a much larger scale.
Thinking into the future, when there is no more oil(that day will come sooner than we all think), what kind of machines will we be using to even cut wood(assuming we can still burn wood)?
OFF TOPIC:
I always chuckle when I hear my colleagues complain about the price of gas when they drive a tank and pass me like I am standing still. We seem to be a society that is always in a hurry. Does anybody remember the 70's and the speed limit then? Why don't we talk about conserving energy instead of just trying to find places to drill for more? I worry about what my kids will have to deal with when they get older because I think we can all agree that our government and its leaders are more interested in taking care of themselves than taking care of our country or our world.
BACK ON TOPIC:
I will continue to burn wood until the day I physically cannot. You can have my chainsaw when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!:greenchainsaw:
I find it amusing when the EPA finds the need to regulate the 2 cycle engine so it will not pollute as much when there are so many other sources that cause more pollution on a much larger scale.
Thinking into the future, when there is no more oil(that day will come sooner than we all think), what kind of machines will we be using to even cut wood(assuming we can still burn wood)?
OFF TOPIC:
I always chuckle when I hear my colleagues complain about the price of gas when they drive a tank and pass me like I am standing still. We seem to be a society that is always in a hurry. Does anybody remember the 70's and the speed limit then? Why don't we talk about conserving energy instead of just trying to find places to drill for more? I worry about what my kids will have to deal with when they get older because I think we can all agree that our government and its leaders are more interested in taking care of themselves than taking care of our country or our world.
BACK ON TOPIC:
I will continue to burn wood until the day I physically cannot. You can have my chainsaw when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!:greenchainsaw:
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Locoweed
ArboristSite Guru
If our politicians would stop using gas guzzlers and reduce their flying, it would possibly conserve more oil and reduce pollution more than all the chainsaws put together.
Think any of them are going to go to the EPA with that suggestion?
Does anyone have any estimates on the amount of pollution generated by our little scuffle with Iraq?
The old saw about "don't do as I do, do as I say" needs to be revisited by our government.
:bang:
Think any of them are going to go to the EPA with that suggestion?
Does anyone have any estimates on the amount of pollution generated by our little scuffle with Iraq?
The old saw about "don't do as I do, do as I say" needs to be revisited by our government.
:bang:
windthrown
361 Junkie
Global warming a farce?
Well, for those of you that think global warming is a farce, I suggest that you go to Alaska and look at the glacier melt of late. Or to places that I have been in northern Canada where it is raining lately in winter months where it has NEVER rained in winter before. The antarctic ice sheet is melting, as is the ice in Greenland. The Andes mountain glaciers are also melting, and the ones here in the Cascades are shrinking. Average global temperature is on the rise.
If you do not want to believe it, just wait a few more years. The polar melting is accelerating. The sea level will rise. Stick your collectove heads in the sand and deny it all that you want. Call Al Gore a jerk. Whatever. In a very short period of time, YOU WILL BE PROVED WRONG. There is just way too much overwhelming evidence to show that the polar ice and higher altitude glaciers are melting. Also overall average global temperatures are on the rise. January 2007 had a record high in global average temperatures. Facts, not fiction.
Well, for those of you that think global warming is a farce, I suggest that you go to Alaska and look at the glacier melt of late. Or to places that I have been in northern Canada where it is raining lately in winter months where it has NEVER rained in winter before. The antarctic ice sheet is melting, as is the ice in Greenland. The Andes mountain glaciers are also melting, and the ones here in the Cascades are shrinking. Average global temperature is on the rise.
If you do not want to believe it, just wait a few more years. The polar melting is accelerating. The sea level will rise. Stick your collectove heads in the sand and deny it all that you want. Call Al Gore a jerk. Whatever. In a very short period of time, YOU WILL BE PROVED WRONG. There is just way too much overwhelming evidence to show that the polar ice and higher altitude glaciers are melting. Also overall average global temperatures are on the rise. January 2007 had a record high in global average temperatures. Facts, not fiction.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Global warming due to beef industry
Here is another factor in global warming, and an alarming one due to cows (and pigs) farting up a storm of methane gas:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/story?id=2723201&page=1
Here is another factor in global warming, and an alarming one due to cows (and pigs) farting up a storm of methane gas:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/story?id=2723201&page=1
tek9tim
ArboristSite Guru
Perhaps chainsaws are getting regulated in a way that the government would like to regulate the auto industry, but Stihl and Husky don't have near the lobbyists that GM and Ford do.
Ahh, righto. Let's face it, there're many, many times more normal people than politicians driving gas guzzling rigs. Perhaps if our politicians would stop being puppets of the oil industry and of the makers of the gas guzzlers...
It's the unburnt fuel that's the problem with two strokes. More of a problem than you'ld first guess.
That said, anyone who collects their own fuel, water, food, etc is likely to be less of a drain on the environment than the city folk who just "turn up the gas" in winter.
Big Daddy
ArboristSite Operative
windthrown
Al Gore said co2 levels are there highest in 650,000 years. Who meassured it then, and where is it recorded. The guy is not a jerk he is a CLOWN... When I was in school they had everone believeing the ice age was comming back. Speaking of that who's saw or gas guzzling SUV started that ice to melting. Like I said this is nothing but a FARCE, a way for more LEFT WING COMMIES to restrick an take personal rights away...
Al Gore said co2 levels are there highest in 650,000 years. Who meassured it then, and where is it recorded. The guy is not a jerk he is a CLOWN... When I was in school they had everone believeing the ice age was comming back. Speaking of that who's saw or gas guzzling SUV started that ice to melting. Like I said this is nothing but a FARCE, a way for more LEFT WING COMMIES to restrick an take personal rights away...
Ray Bennett
ArboristSite Guru
windthrown
361 Junkie
Commies?
Man, get a life. Left wing commies taking away your personal rights? Talk abut a farce. The latest religious right presidential administration has done more to restrict your personal rights in the name of anti-terrorism than the commies have done since the Russian Revolution. And if you want a farce, why is it that your clown Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the election? Oh yah, political smoke, rigged elections and BS mirrors... from the same administration that likes to cover up global warming data becasue they are in bed with the Arabs and oil companies.
And for those of you that got past the 8th grade, CO2 levels are measureable back for hundreds of thousands of years from ice cores. See, the CO2 gets trapped in the ice when it forms. Ice sheets in the antarctic have piled up for many hundreds of thousands of years and the ice cores were taken from a depth of over 2 miles deep. A lot of the data collected was by a British scientific team way back in 1999, er, not 450,000 BP.
But hey man, you do not have to believe anything. I tell yah what. Why not go down to Florida and buy some ocean front property there. Then in 15 years we will see who was right when the ocean levels rise. Some day you will wake up floating around in your living room chair and the synapses in your brain will go, "Gee wiz, maybe Al Gore was right about..." Naaaahhhhh, you will belive that the rising sea levels are beacues of some commie plot to overthrow the US government.
Its hopeless... :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: The Korean and Vietnam wars are over, man. Get over it.
Man, get a life. Left wing commies taking away your personal rights? Talk abut a farce. The latest religious right presidential administration has done more to restrict your personal rights in the name of anti-terrorism than the commies have done since the Russian Revolution. And if you want a farce, why is it that your clown Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the election? Oh yah, political smoke, rigged elections and BS mirrors... from the same administration that likes to cover up global warming data becasue they are in bed with the Arabs and oil companies.
And for those of you that got past the 8th grade, CO2 levels are measureable back for hundreds of thousands of years from ice cores. See, the CO2 gets trapped in the ice when it forms. Ice sheets in the antarctic have piled up for many hundreds of thousands of years and the ice cores were taken from a depth of over 2 miles deep. A lot of the data collected was by a British scientific team way back in 1999, er, not 450,000 BP.
But hey man, you do not have to believe anything. I tell yah what. Why not go down to Florida and buy some ocean front property there. Then in 15 years we will see who was right when the ocean levels rise. Some day you will wake up floating around in your living room chair and the synapses in your brain will go, "Gee wiz, maybe Al Gore was right about..." Naaaahhhhh, you will belive that the rising sea levels are beacues of some commie plot to overthrow the US government.
Its hopeless... :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: The Korean and Vietnam wars are over, man. Get over it.
Ive tried to stay out of this one as there is a legitimate GW discussion happening in the Off Topic area.
That being said, I don't see much distinction between GW and Man Made GW in this particular thread.
The argument shouldn't be "is the earth getting warmer?" Obviously it is. The REAL argument is "is mankind the cause?" Right know the "consensus" among the experts is its 90% likely that mankind is behind the warming. Id like to see that hit 100%, with every expert in agreement. Its like being on a jury, we can not have one person disagreeing otherwise its a mistrial. You see, there can not be "consensus" among scientists. Science deals in fact. There can not be more than one version of a fact. If two equally educated and traveled scientists look at the same data and get two different answers, then they don't have enough information to come to a conclusion.
There are also many links to great reading in the GW thread in OT.
windthrown, Im not singling you out by quoting your post, it just happened to be convenient. Id like to pose this question again, since its never gotten answered here. What caused the last Ice Age?
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windthrown
361 Junkie
The ice ages...
No biggie quoting any of my posts. I am used to debating.
Not sure what caused the last or rather, string of most recent ice ages. Or exactly what caused the end of the last great ice age about 10k years ago. Many suspent that it is solar related. Earth orbit has not changed much in that time, and thus we are left with the obvious. The furnace at the center of the solar system. Supporting evidence of this was during the last so called 'mini-ice-age' at the end of the 17th century (late 1600's). Observers noted a lack of sun spots during that time. Sun spots are related to solar megnetic disturbances. More sun spots and more energy is released from the sun. Fewer of them and less energy is released. The lack of sun spots corresponded to the coldest average temps recorded previous to now. Basically in Europe the rivers froze solid, the ice sheets stretched out miles from the coast, and even wine casks froze solid. My ancestors recorded that stuff in Germany in 1700 before coming to America.
Another prevailing theory is that the ice ages are the result of the Atlantic gulf stream shutting off. Basically all the main ocean currents are circular except one. The gulf stream. That stream pushes warm water up into the north atlantic, warming places like Norway and England. The current then folds under itself and moves back toward the equator, rather than continuing in a circular loop. The theory is that when average temps get high enough, the gulf stream shuts off, and the northern polar region gets really cold and really fast, resulting in the onset of an ice age. This theory is supported by the fact that the recent ice ages were not a phenomenon in the southern hemisphere.
There is evidence that the earth was frozen over solid for a long time in the past. There is also evidence that there have been time with no polar ice at all. We seem to be heading to an era of no polar ice. The most compelling evidence that I have seen for the recent human driven global warming is the correlation of the industrial revolution and increases in global temeratures. There is a 1:1 correlation starting in about 1790. It is so blatantly obvious... a caveman could figure it out. Also the real issue is not that the earth is warming, it has warmed and cooled many times in the past. The real issue is the speed of which the current warming is taking place. It is causing mass species extinction, mass species migration, and starting to show up as climate, rather than periodic weather change. The other issue is that at the poles of the earth, the temeratures there are increasing at a much faster rate. The effect of this is that huge ice sheets are breaking off and melting in the antarctic, and off of Greenland. This melting in turn will casue ocean levels to rise rather dramatically, and again, at a fast and accelerating rate.
No biggie quoting any of my posts. I am used to debating.
Not sure what caused the last or rather, string of most recent ice ages. Or exactly what caused the end of the last great ice age about 10k years ago. Many suspent that it is solar related. Earth orbit has not changed much in that time, and thus we are left with the obvious. The furnace at the center of the solar system. Supporting evidence of this was during the last so called 'mini-ice-age' at the end of the 17th century (late 1600's). Observers noted a lack of sun spots during that time. Sun spots are related to solar megnetic disturbances. More sun spots and more energy is released from the sun. Fewer of them and less energy is released. The lack of sun spots corresponded to the coldest average temps recorded previous to now. Basically in Europe the rivers froze solid, the ice sheets stretched out miles from the coast, and even wine casks froze solid. My ancestors recorded that stuff in Germany in 1700 before coming to America.
Another prevailing theory is that the ice ages are the result of the Atlantic gulf stream shutting off. Basically all the main ocean currents are circular except one. The gulf stream. That stream pushes warm water up into the north atlantic, warming places like Norway and England. The current then folds under itself and moves back toward the equator, rather than continuing in a circular loop. The theory is that when average temps get high enough, the gulf stream shuts off, and the northern polar region gets really cold and really fast, resulting in the onset of an ice age. This theory is supported by the fact that the recent ice ages were not a phenomenon in the southern hemisphere.
There is evidence that the earth was frozen over solid for a long time in the past. There is also evidence that there have been time with no polar ice at all. We seem to be heading to an era of no polar ice. The most compelling evidence that I have seen for the recent human driven global warming is the correlation of the industrial revolution and increases in global temeratures. There is a 1:1 correlation starting in about 1790. It is so blatantly obvious... a caveman could figure it out. Also the real issue is not that the earth is warming, it has warmed and cooled many times in the past. The real issue is the speed of which the current warming is taking place. It is causing mass species extinction, mass species migration, and starting to show up as climate, rather than periodic weather change. The other issue is that at the poles of the earth, the temeratures there are increasing at a much faster rate. The effect of this is that huge ice sheets are breaking off and melting in the antarctic, and off of Greenland. This melting in turn will casue ocean levels to rise rather dramatically, and again, at a fast and accelerating rate.
Casey and Windthrown: Very good posts. There is, however, a third option between Nature Caused and Man Caused. Those two are 'all or nothing' options. My feeling is that it is Nature Caused being boosted by Man Caused.
One of the most rediculous articles on the subject turned up in my daily paper. Spokesmanreview.com 02/26/07. Subscription required and I can't copy articles without paying for them.
"Climatologist to discuss findings"
Reading the article the "climatologist" is "Cliff Harris...studied insurance law in college and has one off the most extensive collections of private weather records in the NW". Then the participants are a TV weather man with a geology degree and author Robert Felix who wrote a book about a coming ice age. How can I possibley their views on GW? It got worse when Harris backed up his assertions with 'it's in the Bible and GW will be the sign of the 'tribulation'.
Harry K
One of the most rediculous articles on the subject turned up in my daily paper. Spokesmanreview.com 02/26/07. Subscription required and I can't copy articles without paying for them.
"Climatologist to discuss findings"
Reading the article the "climatologist" is "Cliff Harris...studied insurance law in college and has one off the most extensive collections of private weather records in the NW". Then the participants are a TV weather man with a geology degree and author Robert Felix who wrote a book about a coming ice age. How can I possibley their views on GW? It got worse when Harris backed up his assertions with 'it's in the Bible and GW will be the sign of the 'tribulation'.
Harry K
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