Glory shots - worth the risk?

[beowulf343]

That extra hour or two of me in the tree knocking down a few more chunks is a lot less expensive to my employer than replacing a deck, fence, greenhouse, etc. So far, no major damage (he did break some terra-cotta pots when the stub bounced more than he thought), but I feel like it's just a matter of odds, and why play those odds when you don't have to... Oh, and just to remove confusion, I'm talking about hitting a line where you only have 2-3 feet of error with a 30-50 foot piece. So now that I've rambled on, I would like everyone else's 2 cents, am I out of line thinking that this kind of risk is unnacceptable?

That extra hour or two can add up to a couple more tree jobs by the end of the week. But to be honest, if you've been dropping stems in tight areas every day for years, you've learned how to minimize the risk. I'll drop the biggest stems i can get away with. You do residential takedowns for a living and you learn that 2-3 feet of error is a lot. Too many of mine come down in a spot with alot less room for error than that.

I actually broke a couple pots last summer too. Stem hit the ground, shook the deck, and they fell off the railing.

 

[clearance]

That extra hour or two can add up to a couple more tree jobs by the end of the week. But to be honest, if you've been dropping stems in tight areas every day for years, you've learned how to minimize the risk. I'll drop the biggest stems i can get away with. You do residential takedowns for a living and you learn that 2-3 feet of error is a lot. Too many of mine come down in a spot with alot less room for error than that.

I actually broke a couple pots last summer too. Stem hit the ground, shook the deck, and they fell off the railing.

There you have it, again, a man speaking with confidence, if you never fall big, how can you become good at it? A couple of pots people, BFD, a couple of pots vs many, many hours that you could have been working cause you were worrying and obsessing. Beowolf, I like your style

 

[booboo]

"I'll drop the biggest stems i can get away with. You do residential takedowns for a living and you learn that 2-3 feet of error is a lot."

+1

Every job has a money shot of some sort, whether it's dropping the spar, taking a top, taking a big piece out over a target, or even just flopping a whole tree between stuff.

Time is money. Poorly spent time is wasted money, whether taking more chunks than needed or far worse, repairing damage. The trick is to be professional and not stupid. Take the biggest shot you've got the room and gear (and sometimes sack) to do without being stupid. That can range from the whole tree to little slices thrown onto foam *note shameless reference to Ekka videos*. After a while, what looks impossibly tight to some is way more than enough room to others.

 

[ronnyb]

I'm with MCKEETREE. We take pride in our reputation of not damaging our clients property, and we charge them for it. I don't need to do extra jobs to make up for additional time either.

 

[oldirty]

There you have it, again, a man speaking with confidence, if you never fall big, how can you become good at it? A couple of pots people, BFD, a couple of pots vs many, many hours that you could have been working cause you were worrying and obsessing. Beowolf, I like your style

i again have to agree with you on this one clearence. i usually look forward to hearing what the big fella has to say.


still waiting on that pic of what half man half amazing looks like. lol


stay safe

 

[Nailsbeats]

I have to take the "time is money" point of view on this one. I have been known to go for the "money cut", as we call them, most of the time. I love the rush of hitting that point of no return on a heavily calculated risk cut. Watch that beast hit the ground and say, "yup, right where I was aim'n, I'll clean up them flower pots later."
:greenchainsaw:

 

[hammerlogging]

Thats why I think anyone serious about tree work should try and cut in the woods a bit, a couple of months. Not every tree, every time can you drop, but you learn the exact perameters you can work around and yes, big time, I'm talking the money shot. Like clearance says. Its not risk, its being totally skilled and in control.

 

[(WLL)]

glory shots-worth the risk?

:jawdrop: shure if ya like kids:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Am I missing something here. Why is the groundsman telling the climber how to work? That seems a little bass ackwards to me.

 

[joesawer]

You block down guys would have a nervous break down watching some of the stuff I have done.

 

[joesawer]

That extra hour or two can add up to a couple more tree jobs by the end of the week. But to be honest, if you've been dropping stems in tight areas every day for years, you've learned how to minimize the risk. I'll drop the biggest stems i can get away with. You do residential takedowns for a living and you learn that 2-3 feet of error is a lot. Too many of mine come down in a spot with alot less room for error than that.

I actually broke a couple pots last summer too. Stem hit the ground, shook the deck, and they fell off the railing.

It is possible to break stuff piecing down as well. Several years ago I had a market for GP peelers 9' long and 10+" diameter. So I was bombing 9' logs From about 100' (would have made Clearance proud). The neighbors really said we shook things up. One even claimed we where hitting her house. As she stood there insisting to me that we had just hit her house, the climber pushed off another one. It was whistling when it hit flat with a ground shaking THUMP. She hurried back inside with out another word.

 

[mckeetree]

It is possible to break stuff piecing down as well. Several years ago I had a market for GP peelers 9' long and 10+" diameter. So I was bombing 9' logs From about 100' (would have made Clearance proud). The neighbors really said we shook things up. One even claimed we where hitting her house. As she stood there insisting to me that we had just hit her house, the climber pushed off another one. It was whistling when it hit flat with a ground shaking THUMP. She hurried back inside with out another word.

Not if you lower down in pieces. You bombers and droppers would never make it around here. We hired a guy from New York about eight years ago to fill a spot that had been open for a while. He was visiting in-laws when he decided he liked Texas and answered an ad in a local paper we had placed. We called him "Bombing Tom" because of the way he took down a tree. In his defense Tom said that was the way they did tree work where he came from. I didn't believe him and he didn't last long but now I think maybe he was telling the truth.

 

[Farmer Ferd]

I bomb whenever possible and clean up well afterwards. Time is money if the customer dosnt want me to, no problem but the price will go up accordingly.

on another note just yesterday I was about 90' up dropping a 10' branch on a tulip poplar. 20 foot away was a very low brick wall which I had tires on Just in case. A gust came up as I cut and threw it, it sailed like an arrow and went right through the middle of the tire. luckily no damage. but it was a calculated risk if a did break the brick I would have told the customer and fixed it. it would have been embarrassing but if I look back on all the hours I save not just myself but my crew would be sitting waiting for me. know your limitations and work smart.

 

[joesawer]

Not if you lower down in pieces. You bombers and droppers would never make it around here. We hired a guy from New York about eight years ago to fill a spot that had been open for a while. He was visiting in-laws when he decided he liked Texas and answered an ad in a local paper we had placed. We called him "Bombing Tom" because of the way he took down a tree. In his defense Tom said that was the way they did tree work where he came from. I didn't believe him and he didn't last long but now I think maybe he was telling the truth.

You have to give the customer the choice. On that job we could have roped out every chunk or brought in a crane, but the customer would rather have the trees gone for the lesser amount. The yard damage was not that bad and we discussed what the homeowner could expect in yard damages and what it would cost to fix, versus not doing damage.
Plus I had a market for the logs so that helped my overhead. Dropping and catching 9' logs was not an option.

I lived in Lewisville for four years. There is plenty of bombing going on north of Dallas. If you can call cutting those bushes bombing.

 

[newbym]

Let me clear a few things up

First off, newbym is for Newby, Michael - that would be my name and a hold-over from how we had to log on to accounts when I was in the Navy. By new to climbing, I mean I've been doing it for 3 years now, gone to multiple training seminars, and have my ISA Cert. Climber finished (take to CA test this summer). Oh, lest I forget, I grew up with a hard-ass old school style helicopter logger as my step-dad whom I've watched pull off seemingly impossible shots, making them land within inches of where he said they would, and he did his best to pass some of those skills down to me, whether I wanted them or not. I'm far from his skill falling from the ground, but I'm very confident in my abilities to drop a straight-forward tree (as in your basic humboldt or traditional face with a back-cut, no special treatment needed besides wedges). My opinion on the matter is that we make good money in this business because of our ability to do quality work safely. Good enough that we don't need to take even that .0001 % chance that if for some reason it does go wrong, it's going to cause major (as in house destroying, no more insurance for you) damage. No need for it when you can work for a little while longer an make it so that if an accident does occur, it's going to be relatively minor, fix it yourself kind of damage. Maybe I'm a little over cautious, but in this business, it seems to me that it's the cautious ones that are talking about how great it's been to have been working in this industry for 20+ years, and the risk-takers that eventually end up uninsurable if their lucky, dead if their not.

 

[clearance]

It is possible to break stuff piecing down as well. Several years ago I had a market for GP peelers 9' long and 10+" diameter. So I was bombing 9' logs From about 100' (would have made Clearance proud). The neighbors really said we shook things up. One even claimed we where hitting her house. As she stood there insisting to me that we had just hit her house, the climber pushed off another one. It was whistling when it hit flat with a ground shaking THUMP. She hurried back inside with out another word.

You the man, I love that sound. Lower it down, right, the flowers and lawn are worth more than your life? Forget it, not even worth your time and most customers money. Try it some time mckeetree, you can get good at it.

 

[beowulf343]

Good enough that we don't need to take even that .0001 % chance that if for some reason it does go wrong, it's going to cause major (as in house destroying, no more insurance for you) damage.

What are the chances of your groundie not taking enough wraps? What are the chances of the stem failing as you're catching on it? What are the chances of your crane operator suddenly having a heart attack and dropping your pick? If you want to nitpick, there is a .0001% chance of something going wrong no matter what you do. If you are afraid of not taking a risk because there is a .0001% chance of something going wrong, you will never be a great climber. Now my math ain't great but does .0001% mean there is a one in one thousand chance of something going wrong? Dude!!! Those are pretty dang good odds!!!

 

[joesawer]

What are the chances of your groundie not taking enough wraps? What are the chances of the stem failing as you're catching on it? What are the chances of your crane operator suddenly having a heart attack and dropping your pick? If you want to nitpick, there is a .0001% chance of something going wrong no matter what you do. If you are afraid of not taking a risk because there is a .0001% chance of something going wrong, you will never be a great climber. Now my math ain't great but does .0001% mean there is a one in one thousand chance of something going wrong? Dude!!! Those are pretty dang good odds!!!

I think .0001% is one in a million.

 

[mckeetree]

You have to give the customer the choice. On that job we could have roped out every chunk or brought in a crane, but the customer would rather have the trees gone for the lesser amount. The yard damage was not that bad and we discussed what the homeowner could expect in yard damages and what it would cost to fix, versus not doing damage.
Plus I had a market for the logs so that helped my overhead. Dropping and catching 9' logs was not an option.

I lived in Lewisville for four years. There is plenty of bombing going on north of Dallas. If you can call cutting those bushes bombing.

I could say something real smart @ss back to that. It came to mind quickly but I think I'll pass this time.

 

[Millerstree]

i let the customer and safety decide. if customer wants to pay, we rope or use a crane on everything. if customer doesnt care, which we make clear to them about damage to yard we drop anything we can. if we can put the tree down without climbing, with a throwline so be it. it comes down quick. we have dropped some pretty tall trees and trunks into some very tight areas. we have had a few small damages, but without mistakes you really dont learn what you are really capable of. if we blow the tree out quicker then climbing it i pay my guys the difference. but safety is first, but i log and get to practice trying to make trees go where you dont think they will go. just my opinion