Ground guys,what is the problem?

[beastmaster]

I have this one thing I am anal about, and it causes me problem everywhere I go. Wear your helmet!!
I work for several different companys, not as a boss or foreman or safety officer, just another climber, but I insist the people around me wear their helmets. Last week I again caused problems because I told a groundsman to wear his helmet. He got all upset. I get mad my mouth has a mind of its own and I got mad. So I said things that didn't help the situation. On another crew I talked to the boss about it, and he adressed the the crew from here on out they had to wear their helmets. Six sets of angry eyes glared at me with hate.
Is it so important to look cool that you'll risk your life, and make the company look unprofessional. You think you were asking them to wear a dress the way so many resist it. Some will wear a helmet when their under the tree but then take if off. I always tell them if you knew you were going to get hit in the head it wouldn't be an accident.
I have been in this business 30 years. I've seen people horribly injured .
Last year I was feeding the chipper and a long crooked limb twisted and hit my head that was covered by a helmet so hard I saw a bright light and didn't know where I was at for a second. Even with a chin strap my helmet was around my neck.
I saw a photo one time of some poor guy who got impaled in the head by a pole pruner.
Am I wrong in this. Have I become the old dude who ruins it for everyone? No don't answer that.Ha.
How do others handle this and am I over reacting to the whole helmet thing? Please set me right one way or the other.

 

[Pelorus]

I have almost entirely eliminated one groundie with my mini skid. Loving it - way less headaches. Got fed up constantly telling him to wear a hardhat. Too stubborn and stupid to be willing to change his ways, or learn anything, and I'm not cut out to be a babysitter or welfare agency.

 

[superjunior]

I made it a rule that everyone wears one on the jobsite. Don't like it? Work somewhere else. On a side note after grinding some stumps this morning I misplaced my safety glasses. Looked all over but couldn't find em. Walked by the chipper and got blasted right in the eye by a chunk of wood. Hurt pretty good but didn't realize it broke a blood vessel (I think) till I got home and my wife freeked out and said look in the mirror.

 

[husabud]

NO helmet for me Boss. That's what my last groundie said the last day he worked for me. I hate to go through em, but if you don't like it go somewhere else. I see it as cheap Ins. it's too bad no one else does.

 

[no tree to big]

at the co I work for there is no issue at all with hard hats no matter the task everyone has it on unless a guy is trying to set a rope in the tree from the ground then most times it gets kicked away until the line is set, other then that its on if your out of the truck. we do a lot of dead tree removals via crane so its a must #### falls everywhere. I've got so accustomed to wearing it that the one time I forgot to put it on, didn't even realize it, and no one said anything when I was feeding the chipper I did what I normally do when i'm trying to get a big mess in the feed rollers, once it catches put hand on head to hold hard hat on and let the hat take the hit as I back out. well hand on head #### wheres the hard hat wack oucccchhhhhh lesson learned dont forget to wear the had hat lol

plus its kinda a safety hazard to not wear one with our crane op we do a lot of stuff where you have pretty much no place to set the pics down so the cable ends up redirecting on another tree well once the piece is down and we get the nod we go in undo the cables but numb nuts will start moving the boom around trying to get the cable straight and sometimes it knock stuff loose... next time he does it I'm pullin him off the crane and kickin his ass

 

[KenJax Tree]

I totally agree with you and i have no issues with my guys i let them pick the one they wanted and the added gadgets for it i figure if they pick it out they'll wear it so its not an issue. If you aren't the boss i can kind if see why guys get mad and don't listen to you wouldn't you get mad if someone was telling you what to do and it wasn't your boss?

 

[keh10]

I work for a very small company (no more than 3 of us and usually just me and my boss) and my boss is my normal ground man. He almost never wears a helmet. I'm not happy about it, but every time I bring it up for anything less than an obviously hazardous situation, he goes on the whole "I've been doing this before you were hangin' on your mammas tit" line. I figure since he's the boss and set in his ways, I'll let it be.

On bigger jobs, we bring in another ground man to help out with the clean up and he never wears one. He's in his mid 40's and learned a lot of bad habits from the last company he worked for. There's little chance that I'll be able to influence him to wear one since I'm so much younger than he is. At least I taught him a lesson when I recommended to him to use the port-a-wrap when he thought he could handle lowering a larger limb on his own. To his credit, he never let go of the rope after it dragged him half way across the yard.

Do you all wear your helmets when everything is already on the ground and only basic clean up is left? Short or loading the chipper, I don't see much risk of head trauma from basic bucking and brush dragging.

 

[mikewhite85]

Hey Wade. I think I know who that groundman is :wink: He's a little rough around the edges but a good guy. I will get after him to wear his helmet more.

See you Friday.

 

[fir]

All the guys at my work wear there hard hats as soon as we get out of the truck.I also have been hit by those bent limbs into the chipper. I cut them half way through now. I think you are and have had bad luck with your groundies.

 

[beastmaster]

I totally agree with you and i have no issues with my guys i let them pick the one they wanted and the added gadgets for it i figure if they pick it out they'll wear it so its not an issue. If you aren't the boss i can kind if see why guys get mad and don't listen to you wouldn't you get mad if someone was telling you what to do and it wasn't your boss?

There is some truth to that if I was trying to run things and push my will on them for my own selfish reasons. I normally have considerable more experience then the groundmen I'm working with. I often offer suggestions or show them a different way to do some thing. If they don't except it so be it they'll learn, but I have been self employed, crewleader, foremen, and superviser over my 30 year career in this industry, I've twice help load young guys into emergency vehicles, never to see them again, and its always been preventable. I don't want some fool telling me what to do, but if I am in a safety violation, it should be every persons on that crews responsibly to let me know.
I like it when I forget to put my helmet on after lunch and a whole crew gleefully points it out to me

 

[beastmaster]

Hey Wade. I think I know who that groundman is :wink: He's a little rough around the edges but a good guy. I will get after him to wear his helmet more.

See you Friday.

He alright mike, just a stubborn old guy like me, and I don't want to see him get hurt. I like working with him. See you Friday

 

[groundsmgr]

I was always taught you get out of the truck, the helmit is on your head. I always were mine.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Good stuff, We always wear them. My wife even has a hot pink one. I was think about buying another, so when someone forgets theirs, I'll make them wear a pink one! One of the guys that used to work for me, went to another big service here lately, he asked for a hardhat and they all laughed at him? WTF!

Beasty, you hit is dead on. Its this "too cool for school" attitude. Gets a lot of people hurt.

 

[deevo]

View attachment 237513Everyone on my crew does until the job is done, I let them take them off only to rake and no machinery or anything is on. My old partner never wore one much (or any PPE) only takes one hanger or something to make for a bad day when an injury could be avoided! :msp_thumbup:Here are my guys, the guy with squirrel is fairly new and he is very compliant with all PPE, wears chaps when cutting, takes em off when chipping. Oh yeah we saved some babies yesterday!

 

[KenJax Tree]

If im just bucking i don't wear it but if anything is gonna hit the ground or chipping its on. Honestly i hate wearing it but its a small price to pay but as soon as my feet hit the ground its the first thing off.

 

[sgreanbeans]

View attachment 237513Everyone on my crew does until the job is done, I let them take them off only to rake and no machinery or anything is on. My old partner never wore one much (or any PPE) only takes one hanger or something to make for a bad day when an injury could be avoided! :msp_thumbup:Here are my guys, the guy with squirrel is fairly new and he is very compliant with all PPE, wears chaps when cutting, takes em off when chipping. Oh yeah we saved some babies yesterday!

That dog is just waiting!

 

[imagineero]

I'm hard on my guys to wear a helmet too. Nobody can be anywhere near a tree I'm in without a helmet on. I'm hard on most types of basic safety - steel cap boots, hearing protection at all times when operating a saw or shipping, and look out if I see you starting a saw without the chain break on.

I think a lot of the drama with hard hats is caused by giving the guys the cheapest most awful hardhat on the market. The builder style hard hats are truly awful. They're heavy, and they sit high on the head. You don't notice it so much if you're in construction, but if you're grounding you are always looking up, and that shifts all the weight over your neck which starts hurting real fast. I buy my guys fairly decent helmets and find they're happy to wear them. They cost a lot more than $15, but I value the lives of my workers well above that figure too. I also supply them with cheap but effective and comfortable (and cool looking) tinted safety glasses that look like sunglasses, gloves (optional to wear) and good quality earmuffs. I wouldn't ask them to wear anything that i wouldn't want to wear.

We use calls on every job, so everyone knows what's going on. Both myself and the groundies. For myself I always call what I'm taking, and how I'm taking it, like "cut and throw stub out towards the fence" or "I'm going to block down a bunch of pieces and drop them in the yard". I often nominate the cut I'm going to make too - hinge, flat drop, fold, side hinge or spear etc. I also call the play with roped work, how I'm expecting it to unfold. This is important with taglines and where I can see limbs are tangled or may roll, or if there is dead wood in them. I always call 'clear' before every cut. The guys in return call out 'hold' if they're under, or make a call if they're coming under generally. It sounds like a lot of work, but it only takes a second and it makes the job move quick because we all know what's going on. Often times the call is just "same again". I work with different crews all the time. If i was with the same crew every day then I might make calls less, but I dont think so. Sometimes I get good feedback too, like "that flat drop wont clear the roof, you might want to fold it" or "you might want to think about roping that, it wont swing in far enough to clear the clothes line. Relaying that little but of info has saved my butt a few times. I don't see many climbers doing it.

I'd never had an incident where a hard hat came into play until a few months ago. It was a one in a million thing. I was in a small fig tree, maybe only 35' at most but quite spready. We had 4 guys on the job becase there was a lot of other trees coming out, but there was only one guy under me. I made the call "flat dropping a few limbs out into the back" with him being in the front. He called clear to cut and he was about 20' away. I made the cut, but the piece folded a little instead of flat dropping. The butt glanced of another limb on the way down, which swung the head in so it hit another lower limb which bent over to an impossible angle, then sprung back up, launching the limb 20' sideways. It was pure road runner action, never seen anything like it. The butt was launched straight at the guy who had his back turned walking away from the tree. It probably weighted about 150lb, and caught him full force on the helmet, like being hit in the head with s sledge hammer. Knocked him straight off his feet, collapsed the suspension harness of the helmet and cracked the helmet.The helmet did its job 100%, the harness collapse took the impact which would have otherwise crushed his skull or snapped his neck. It took him a few minutes to get his wits back, he was seeing stars, but no injury.

That was a $200 helmet in australia, and I'm glad I bought it for him. Bought him another the next day. Would have been a fatality no question without a helmet, and I doubt a builders helmet with their cheap plastic suspension harnesses would have done the job. The helmet was a pacific.

Shaun

 

[beastmaster]

Thank Shaun, It's that 1 in a million incident that I worry about. Communication is as important as safety gear. I always call out, 'Headache'', before I drop anything, I then expect to hear either,''clear or underneath.'' when they come under me they let me know by yelling,"underneath,'' and I reply ,''clear.'' I some times find dropping something near them if they don't communicate with me a good teaching tool. Act like you didn't know they were there.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Thank Shaun, It's that 1 in a million incident that I worry about. Communication is as important as safety gear. I always call out, 'Headache'', before I drop anything, I then expect to hear either,''clear or underneath.'' when they come under me they let me know by yelling,"underneath,'' and I reply ,''clear.'' I some times find dropping something near them if they don't communicate with me a good teaching tool. Act like you didn't know they were there.

Thats fun to do to lawn jockeys that run the rope you're attached to over or hit it with a weedwacker like you aren't even there.

 

[Pelorus]

Had a high school student work for/with me today. What an absolute pleasure - no Attitude, willing to learn, appreciative of being taught, etc. She can now coil a rope, tie bowline/running bowline/bowline on a bight/timber hitch/sheetbend. All proficiently. And she's got her chainsaw operator ticket (no heck with a saw, but also no grief about wearing full PPE). Going to get her set up with Co-Op program at High School so she will be covered under the school's insurance policy, and get some school course credits.
Her boyfriend is working as a groundie for a competitor, and even though he has been working fulltime with the fellow for 6 months, she said he still hasn't been taught didley squat except how to drag brush and feed a chipper. Day 1 of work for her, and she is miles ahead (knowledge wise) of both her boyfriend, and guys that have been working with me for literally years.
Today for the first time in quite awhile I'm not stressed out, and not thinking bad thoughts about helpers that are in the game only for the money.