Hand filing - Matching Brand Files To Brand Chain

[Bret4207]

Chains can get what I call a crust on the rakers & cutters. Sometimes it can come that way (over hardened)May just be one tooth or one raker and the file may have the tendency to slide by without penetrating the metals to start with.
The longer you can go without filling then the more likely they will start to harden more on the outside. It's likely a combination of heat changing and maybe a polishing from the chips/snow. I notice it can happen often when cutting below snow. If someone has to file frequently then it's not likely going to harden up.

I wasn't going to mention this because I don't have any real proof, but I think chain can get hot enough sometimes that when you set the saw down in the snow it hardens part of the cutter in contact with the snow. My basis for thinking this is a lot of filing when 6 or 7 teeth in one area of the chain is harder than the rest. Seems the only logical explanation as it only happens in pretty cool weather ( below 0F) and not in warmer weather. Maybe I'm dead wrong, but it's an odd thing I've believed for some time.

 

[miller755]

I'm in the process of sharpening 8 gallons of chain, by hand, and frankly I haven't really noticed a difference in the chain/file brands. Currently I'm using an Oregon-branded file and it handles Stihl and Oregon chain equally. I wire-brush the file after I finish filing each tooth and I haven't had any issues with it.

I like how you measure quantity of chain in gallons, makes me happy.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I like how you measure quantity of chain in gallons, makes me happy.

Yeah, measuring a solid in liquid measurement is just plain wrong. It's got to be done in capacity there it be metric or standard.

 

[miller755]

Yeah, measuring a solid in liquid measurement is just plain wrong. It's got to be done in capacity there it be metric or standard.

I was serious though, it made me smile. It would have been even better if it were like pecks or bushels.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I never liked the fine grade Stihl files.
They are mainly the ones the shops seem to stock.

I prefer Oregon chain in a wet rainy environment with Oregon files. They are a fair bit more aggressive on either chain but Stihl chain is a chore if you have heavy rain.
About the three worst things you can do to shorten the files life whilst in use is filing in the rain, not cleaning out the frills/or flattening the frills by back filing or tapping.
If you tap then tap the tip only.
I clean it out ever 3-4 strokes by rolling it as I back file over my glove hand. Just don't wipe your eyes with the back of your glove.
It's a fast thing.


Chains can get what I call a crust on the rakers & cutters. Sometimes it can come that way (over hardened)May just be one tooth or one raker and the file may have the tendency to slide by without penetrating the metals to start with.
The longer you can go without filling then the more likely they will start to harden more on the outside. It's likely a combination of heat changing and maybe a polishing from the chips/snow. I notice it can happen often when cutting below snow. If someone has to file frequently then it's not likely going to harden up.

You may be dealing with some of that too
If those chains have been sitting for some time?

I just put a brand new Stihl chain on an 026 yesterday that has just one cutter and depth gauge that are too hard for a file to touch it. Its harder than a file is so I will have to carefully grind it to my profile and grind the depth gauge to suit, maybe the steel will get softer as the outer thickness gets removed.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

If the chains were ‘grinder hardened’, you probably would not be able to file them at all. But you could normally grind through that layer and return to its normal state.

Metal is funny. There is an art and a science to it, and you may just have some “funky“ Oregon chains.


Generally, yes: they are really ‘depth gauges’ and the highest point touching the wood determines the thickness of the chip.

But if there is a sharp transition point, and that hits the wood, it can dig in and really ‘drag’ (another slang term for depth gauge). After adjusting the height you want to round it over to match the OEM profile.

Philbert

I do not have much of an idea on this but could grinder heat up the tooth and cool it enough to increase hardness. If it could be done in an effective way it would be a great asset. On the other hand a grinder could heat up the tooth and make it softer. Either way have not tried this enough to know. Thanks

 

[pioneerguy600]

A few chains I let others grind for me came back blued, a file could not touch them at all. It may work the other way around but doubtful.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I like how you measure quantity of chain in gallons, makes me happy.

I am a hand filer but could never sharpen EIGHT gallons of chain in a day. I would start to dig through my stuff looking for a grinder or look for some thing local or buy some thing nice.

There is no chance there is a big difference on chain saw files period. Oregon files have proven to be a little more course than many other brands, but they can lose their ability to sharpen very hard teeth a little sooner. I did buy an assortment of imported files maybe Chinese and yes they did not last too long. When ever I find a reasonable deal I buy several dozen or a case and I am done worrying about the issue for a few years. Some chains have a chrome finish which is really a great asset for dirty hardwoods. Either way If you find files for a $1 or you pay $4 per file the more pricey file will probably last a few chains so it matters not. Thanks

 

[frank_]

you can temper (soften) a tooth by getting it blue hot, but to harden it you would have to get it RED hot and then quench it (compressed air quench or water/oil quench)
i suspect that any teeth you come across that are too hard to file, have been work hardened (run blunt for too long)

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I was serious though, it made me smile. It would have been even better if it were like pecks or bushels.

Even better, if you laid out 8 gallons of chain end to end- how many chain would it measure? Assuming 22 yards to the chain, 10 chains to the furlong and 80 chain to the mile?

 

[Westboastfaller]

I just put a brand new Stihl chain on an 026 yesterday that has just one cutter and depth gauge that are too hard for a file to touch it. Its harder than a file is so I will have to carefully grind it to my profile and grind the depth gauge to suit, maybe the steel will get softer as the outer thickness gets removed.

I hate that. Oregon was always good for having at Ieast one over hardened tooth.
or a few depth gauges. I always file & sharpen out of the box.
Bought a 25' roll of Carlton low pro skip .325
I bought a box of 12, Pferd double bevelled files at $100 a box. (12 yrs ago too) I figured I was going to plug away and learn more on square filing & convert some of that to square.
That whole roll was hard as I've ever seen.
It just started killing those files like nothing.
They have the flat file on them too. Super good flat files but it took a lot to brake the skin.
They put Nicholson's flat files to shame and they are great files.
_________
You may want to try a big bastard file on it.
that will work for the depth gauge.
What file does that call for..3/16 ?
If you have any good course 5/32 it my break through some of the skin. Did you try a brand new file on that tooth?
If it comes down to the grinder then just go slow or use it to start it and should be good to finish with the file & next time.

 

[Philbert]

Assuming 22 yards to the chain, 10 chains to the furlong and 80 chain to the mile?

As a former land surveyor; a ‘chain’ is 66 feet. There are 4 ‘rods’ (16-1/2 feet) in a chain. An area of 10 square chains (10 x 66’ x 66’) is an ‘acre’ ( 43,560 square feet).

Your mileage may vary.

Philbert

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

As a former land surveyor; a ‘chain’ is 66 feet. There are 4 ‘rods’ (16-1/2 feet) in a chain. An area of 10 square chains (10 x 66’ x 66’) is an ‘acre’ ( 43,560 square feet).

Your mileage may vary.

Philbert

Is there not 66 feet in 22 yards?

 

[Philbert]

Is there not 66 feet in 22 yards?

With social distancing, we are tying to keep the number of feet in yard restricted to those of direct relatives in that bubble!

(You were going for the long game; I was thinking about square footage).

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

I do not have much of an idea on this but could grinder heat up the tooth and cool it enough to increase hardness. If it could be done in an effective way it would be a great asset. On the other hand a grinder could heat up the tooth and make it softer. Either way have not tried this enough to know. Thanks

you can temper (soften) a tooth by getting it blue hot, but to harden it you would have to get it RED hot and then quench it (compressed air quench or water/oil quench)
i suspect that any teeth you come across that are too hard to file, have been work hardened (run blunt for too long)

Discussed this several times before. Yes metal can be hardened (tempered) or softened (annealed) with heat. But it depends on the temperatures, duration, etc. With a grinder, the very thin portions of the cutter edges, and face of gullet (?) heat up and cool down rapidly, compared to the main part of the tooth. This results in an 'air quench' (term from an Oregon engineer), which makes these areas very hard. A sharp file will slide across them like a knife on buttered glass (that part is mine). To soften the tooth (or parts of it), you would have to control the cooling much slower and more carefully.

Ted, a similar method is used to harden the rails on many guide bars, and the teeth on cheap saws sold in hardware stores. An electric current is used to heat up these areas ('induction hardening') leaving the rest of the item softer. It is why you will see blued teeth on these saws, and blue lines under the paint / powder coating of many guide bars. Some people only see these blue lines after the bars have worn off the paint and assume that they were not oiled well, but you will find them under the paint of brand new bars.

Using a sharp grinder wheel (dressing it frequently to constantly expose fresh abrasive), and light touches, reduce the likelihood of overheating the cutters in the first place.

Philbert

 

[pioneerguy600]

I hate that. Oregon was always good for having at Ieast one over hardened tooth.
or a few depth gauges. I always file & sharpen out of the box.
Bought a 25' roll of Carlton low pro skip .325
I bought a box of 12, Pferd double bevelled files at $100 a box. (12 yrs ago too) I figured I was going to plug away and learn more on square filing & convert some of that to square.
That whole roll was hard as I've ever seen.
It just started killing those files like nothing.
They have the flat file on them too. Super good flat files but it took a lot to brake the skin.
They put Nicholson's flat files to shame and they are great files.
_________
You may want to try a big bastard file on it.
that will work for the depth gauge.
What file does that call for..3/16 ?
If you have any good course 5/32 it my break through some of the skin. Did you try a brand new file on that tooth?
If it comes down to the grinder then just go slow or use it to start it and should be good to finish with the file & next time.

No file will touch it, I can grind it with a die grinder to where I want it, very practised at grinding lathe bits to near .001 since my teens. Just came in from turning a M12X1.25 thread on a 10.16 cm bolt to fit our Toyota Corolla alternator bottom connector to engine block bracket. Rust destroyed the original, all steel Toyota bolts rust like mad around here.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

No file will touch it, I can grind it with a die grinder to where I want it, very practised at grinding lathe bits to near .001 since my teens. Just came in from turning a M12X1.25 thread on a 10.16 cm bolt to fit our Toyota Corolla alternator bottom connector to engine block bracket. Rust destroyed the original, all steel Toyota bolts rust like mad around here.

You think modern Toyotas are bad- you should have owned a Mitsubishi or Mazda back in the 1970's- those things rusted away in front of your eyes like Spring snow melt! Bolts and all!

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

With social distancing, we are tying to keep the number of feet in yard restricted to those of direct relatives in that bubble!

(You were going for the long game; I was thinking about square footage).

Philbert

See over here- we do not need to social distance- we were sensible first time around.
Besides, I am more of a 3'3"and 3/8ths kind of guy.

 

[Woodslasher]

Even better, if you laid out 8 gallons of chain end to end- how many chain would it measure? Assuming 22 yards to the chain, 10 chains to the furlong and 80 chain to the mile?

About 279 feet if you "broke" the chains or 139.5 feet if they're left intact, spread between between 55 or so chains.

 

[frank_]

Discussed this several times before. Yes metal can be hardened (tempered)

tempering reduces the hardness/brittleness
thats why tool steels are hardened and tempered