Hard pulling recoils

[liam51]

Hello. I am a new member and need some advice. I own two Husqvarna chain saws: Model 44 & model 262XP. I use both saws for pruning, felling, and cutting firewood for heating. Its had been about six months since either had been started. Now, my problems.....I decided to install new chains on both saws last night. I went to start the 262 and the recoil handle pulled out of my hand. I could barely get a full pull. Finally, the 262 started and ran fine. I revved it a bit and ran it at various rpm's and then shut it down. It ran as advertised. I decided to start it again....SAME THING HAPPENED. Its almost like the compression is SO great, the recoil is pulled from my hand. OUCH! Anyway, I decided to fire up the model 44 next. The same exact thing happened! It did start after a fashion, and ran perfect, but pulls so ???? hard, it hurt my hand again. Whats going on? Ive had these saws a number of years with NO problems. Now, they both have the same personality...which is hard to live with. Both saws pull over fine with the spark plugs removed. Please give some ideas to work with. It will be rather costly if I have to bring both saws to a dealer. Please advise. Thanks, Will

 

[cunrya]

Very strand and not any type of expert, but sounds like somthing made a nest in your exaust(spelling I know) port or muffler possibly. This assumption is only because both saws have the same problem, and worked fine before. Might be worth checking out before you take them in to be serviced, and I might be way way off base and an idiot Or maybe you didn't eat your Weaties over the summer

 

[liam51]

Ya know, if I hadnt run both saws, your idea would be a great one about the nesting. Both exhaust worked as advertised. As for the wheaties comment...

 

[cunrya]

Like I said, no proffesion of knowledge, just an idea! I'm sure the experts will have a ball flaming me on my uneducated, infintile suggestion.

 

[Big Woody]

You mentioned "worked as advertised" a few times? Is this the first you have run them since you bought them?

I have a homelite 330 that is the same way (no compression release). The best way to start is to pull the rope out slowly until it is snug. Then pull hard and fast and you can usually avoid the kickback. If you pull a little hesitantly it can sometimes pull back when it fires.

 

[liam51]

You mentioned "worked as advertised" a few times? Is this the first you have run them since you bought them?

I have a homelite 330 that is the same way (no compression release). The best way to start is to pull the rope out slowly until it is snug. Then pull hard and fast and you can usually avoid the kickback. If you pull a little hesitantly it can sometimes pull back when it fires.

"Worked as advertised", means after I got both running last night, they seemed normal in power and rpm's. But, they still pulled very, very hard after I tried to restart them after shutdown, like the compression was 10 times what it should be.

 

[scotchguy]

It's happening to me too!

Hi Guys, I've been away and just got back and logged on to ask about this very problem. My Husky has a decompression valve, so its no problem. I've felt the little Alpina kick back on the starter but its too small to bother me.

However, the 064 is stronger than me ... cusre the thing!

Anyway, now that the cold weather is here its doing the following:

1 I put the choke on all the way with the trigger locked in at full speed.

2 After about 6 normal pulls the starter cord is ripped out of my hand as it fires before top-dead-center. (Could this be a timing thing?)

3 If I keep pulling, the cord gets ripped from my grip evey time for about another 6 pulls.

4 Finally, it stopps kicking back and after another two normal pulls it starts and runs beautiful. This is the weird bit ... why should it pull normally without a kick just before it starts?

Today I sprained my fore arm, its hurting like mad and thats why I'm asking about this problem.

I agree with Woody that it helps to pull out the rope till its snug and then pull real strong. However, I can't go on hurting my arm like this and keep working.

My question is to those guys with similar big saws ... IS THIS NORMAL? Is the saw just too big for me to pull? If not, where does the problem lie?

I too have just fitted a new chain but thats not the problem. I'm thinking cold, spark timing, carb adjustment or old gas perhaps?

The most depressing thought is that I'm just not strong enough for this saw. However, I don't believe anybody could hold the cord against the force of the kicks I'm getting. So, if you have a big saw like a 064 or 066 please let me know if it kicks back on you. Perhaps this is the reason decompression valves are fitted? If so ... can I retro-fit one?

 

[Kenskip1]

This may be a long shot but what does the rope look like?If the rope is frayed it will not rewind back onto the spool correctly. When the engine comes up on compression the rope MAY be getting wedged inside the pulley. An easy way to tell is to pull the spark plug out and give it a few pulls. If all works well then you may have a crack in the rewind spool.The closest analogy that comes to mind is like two people trying to go out a door at the same time! I know this is a long shot but hey, what the heck, Ken

 

[HiOctane]

Probably your rope getting stuck in the pulley as Ken says or if she smokes heavily at start,could be chain oil leaking in the crankcase giving a lot more compression.

 

[lesorubcheek]

What HiOctane said is true. An excess of oil can make a saw very hard to pull over. I remember after rebuilding a XL-925 I had used a little bit too much oil for the bearings in the crankcase. The compression was so high I could barely pull it over. If somehow bar oil leaked into the case, it would be a bear to pull over. Thing is though after it ran and burned out, I would suspect restarting immediately would feel "normal". Also, you'd be getting a ton of extra smoke initially. Good luck finding your problem.

Dan

 

[Dan Forsh]

Hi Liam,

Probably just a strange coincidence that they have both happened at the same time, but the advice to check the pulley is the soundest.

I had the same problem with my 281XP. When I bought it I had an inferiority complex as I could not for the life of me pull the ???? thing. The guys on here worked it out for me. Does the cord stay out and not recoil until you have pulled it all the way out?

If so the cracked pulley is likely the cause to me. The crack will be somwhere around its centre. It wasn't obvious on mine, but I've seen it happen since on other saws. The resistance of the compression is enough to allow the cord to overwrap itself as the two sides of the plastic pulley splay apart. Take the spark plug out, no resistance and it doesn't happen.

 

[stihltech]

kick

The rope and pulley are a godd thing to check out. The CORRECT size rope is a must. It may decrease the leverage on the crank by sitting to low in the pulley or binding.
Correct starting is also a must. I believe the correct way is to get the piston up on compression and then pull. Drop started too long to remember.
Also, timing is a possibility. Electronic ignitions need to be at base timing to start without kickback, then advance after start. 064 with the wrong coil is a prime example. It will rip your fingers off. Changed one recently, my knuckles still hurt.
Last, old fuel or low octane. Burns too fast, fires before it should. Sorry, Ben.
And, Carbon buildup. Raises compression.

Hope something helps. Let us know.

 

[scotchguy]

Thanks guys, I think I've got something to work on.

It's true the gas is a couple of months old. However, there is definitely something wrong with the pulley as the cord does not rewind all the way back when you let it go. What do you think ... is it the spring getting old, gummed up with dirt, just needs retensioning, or what?

I'll certainly check for cracks, but is there routine maintainance to be done on the pulley system?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[HiOctane]

Thanks guys, I think I've got something to work on.

It's true the gas is a couple of months old. However, there is definitely something wrong with the pulley as the cord does not rewind all the way back when you let it go. What do you think ... is it the spring getting old, gummed up with dirt, just needs retensioning, or what?

I'll certainly check for cracks, but is there routine maintainance to be done on the pulley system?

Thanks again for all your help.

Clean your spring,could be gummed slowing the pulley.I just spray wd-40 on it and then i crank it few times to let the stuff penetrate.Check also if the cord is not"swollen" in the pulley,she must roll in the in the pulley easily.

 

[scotchguy]

Thanks HiOctane,

I've got the 064 manual downloaded and printed. It has the full shop maintainance procedure details. I just don't go for all that "loc-tight and special Stihl lubricant 395837x stuff." The kind of advice I need is like "soak it in white spirit then spay on WD40" kind of stuff.

I only work the say a couple of hours now and then so don't want to spend the money on a service.

 

[1Alpha1]

Both saws pull over fine with the spark plugs removed. Please give some ideas to work with.

Come on guys.....read the whole post...........

 

[liam51]

Hi all. Ive been gone for a day and was pleased to see so many responses to my problem. I did notice that yesterday, my model 44 recoil worked normal. I cant explain why though......It pulled very easily and the new chain was a pleasure for sure! I didnt have time to try the 262xp to see if a day setting made any difference after being run. Do you suppose the cylinders corroded a bit from non use? Or maybe a varnish was created between the piston and jug from old petrol? I do like the idea of checking the rope and pulley winding. I shall do that soon. Keep the ideas coming if you can. I'm happy one of the swas seems fixed...was it broken?
Thanks, Liam

 

[fubar2]

I think they do kind of gum up after sitting for awhile. Mine all pull hard at first when in storage for some time.

 

[scotchguy]

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry I hijacked Liams question towards the end, but alls well that ends well. I wonder if the high compression he experienced was due to somebody pouring engine oil in the saw for storage?

Anyway, I took the recoil off the 064 and found that the pawls that engage the crank were badly worn and one was broken ... presumably from the force of the kickback that sprained my arm! I will get replacements and see if that helps.

I had never looked at the recoil device before ... it was really simple and interesting.

 

[scotchguy]

Problem solved

Just to let you know the advice to look at the starter rope recoil mechanism was good. I bought two of the little plastic starter pawls for under a pound, cleaned and tightened the spring. Now I can start the saw without dislocating my wrist and elbow.