Hardened Teeth?

[Dr. Rob]

Hmm, I'm on a roll here... been here ten minutes, three posts already.

So, it seems to me that we all spend an unreasonable amount of time sharpening chains.

Why aren't the darn things of hardened steel to begin with, like all other saws?

 

[HiOctane]

They are hardened teeth up to a certain extent.I guess they leave it that way because depending of what kind of wood you cut,the angle of the cutter may vary to get the max from the chain,so you can file it to your needs.

 

[314epw]

teeth

If they hardened them some more the grinder industry certainly would improve!

 

[blis]

if they were hardened more, the cutters would snap on tough wood (has happened on old chains, like decades ago, when the cutters were harder).. also it would be pain in the ass to sharpen em..

 

[John Ellison]

I believe that however hard or soft the teeth are, if they get into something other than wood [dirt or rocks or?] the edge will be gone. You can either keep working, harder than before, or do something about it.
I see the point in firefighters or emergency saws having something you can go ahead and force thru the cut, but for us regular woodcutters it dosent make sense.

 

[Lakeside53]

If you want hard, get a carbide chain. Doesn't cut as well as chrome steel, but lasts about 10X longer... also cost abut 10X more... and you can't sharpen them without a diamond grinder.

 

[elmnut]

Hmm, I'm on a roll here... been here ten minutes, three posts already.

So, it seems to me that we all spend an unreasonable amount of time sharpening chains.

Why aren't the darn things of hardened steel to begin with, like all other saws?

Hardened cutters (like when an untrained person uses a grinder and gets the cutter too hot, it becomes hardened) are a nightmare to sharpen by hand using a file. Hardened steel is also brittle and not as forgiving as softer alloys. I remember a boss who once bought a carbide cain thinking he could cut through fence in trees, HA-HA-HA, the brittle carbide is chipped right away when it hits barbed wire or chain link.

 

[Paul61]

Hardened cutters (like when an untrained person uses a grinder and gets the cutter too hot, it becomes hardened) are a nightmare to sharpen by hand using a file. Hardened steel is also brittle and not as forgiving as softer alloys. I remember a boss who once bought a carbide cain thinking he could cut through fence in trees, HA-HA-HA, the brittle carbide is chipped right away when it hits barbed wire or chain link.

Almost....re. the grinder thing , Elm.

When ya overheat high carbon toolsteel that's already been heat treated, you are actally removing the hardness, or drawing the hardness out of it.
The term is "annealing".
I belive if ya look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy back in the
"Habour Frieght Grinder" thread, you'll see a few interesting posts re. this subject

BTW Doc Rob, there are many variables & trade-offs when designing anything, such as saw chain cutters & their related hardness:

- tooth life vs. sharpenablity

- operator safety vs. performance

- high volume sales vs. high end items (low volume)

I believe that the manufacturer will target a specific market (homeowner or commercial user) , then design a cutter to suit.........be it junk and/or carbide stuff as Lake mentioned.

I would be surprised if there isn't any Chinese chain on the shelves yet??

Paul

 

[Lakeside53]

Paul - your must have been having visions - Home Depot is full of Chinese chain!!!

WELCOME BACK... please go stomp on that annoying bug...

 

[Dr. Rob]

Yup, I readya Paul. Always a tradeoff on one thing or another.

On the other hand, this sort of thing happens to be my job. (machinist / prototype engineer / tool & die guy / etc) There are plenty of tool steels available which offer good characteristics in the hardness-vs-toughness aspect.

True, they may be hard to sharpen with a file, but the whole point is that you shouldn't need to. And if sharpening, you'd use better grinding equipment, which in turn would give a better edge and more correct cutting tool geometry. The one thing feeds the other; a general improvement in the state of things altogether.

Note, it may be tough to find a wall socket for an electric grinder in the forest.

So, I was just wondering if they were left unhardened by reason of convention, design or frugality.

Seems to be all three. Oh well; we learn something new every day.

 

[elmnut]

Almost....re. the grinder thing , Elm.

When ya overheat high carbon toolsteel that's already been heat treated, you are actally removing the hardness, or drawing the hardness out of it.
The term is "annealing".
I belive if ya look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy back in the
"Habour Frieght Grinder" thread, you'll see a few interesting posts re. this subject

BTW Doc Rob, there are many variables & trade-offs when designing anything, such as saw chain cutters & their related hardness:

- tooth life vs. sharpenablity

- operator safety vs. performance

- high volume sales vs. high end items (low volume)

I believe that the manufacturer will target a specific market (homeowner or commercial user) , then design a cutter to suit.........be it junk and/or carbide stuff as Lake mentioned.

I would be surprised if there isn't any Chinese chain on the shelves yet??

Paul

Thanks for the lesson, always ready to learn from others expertise!

 

[WRW]

Yup, I readya Paul. Always a tradeoff on one thing or another.

On the other hand, this sort of thing happens to be my job. (machinist / prototype engineer / tool & die guy / etc) There are plenty of tool steels available which offer good characteristics in the hardness-vs-toughness aspect.

True, they may be hard to sharpen with a file, but the whole point is that you shouldn't need to. And if sharpening, you'd use better grinding equipment, which in turn would give a better edge and more correct cutting tool geometry. The one thing feeds the other; a general improvement in the state of things altogether.

Note, it may be tough to find a wall socket for an electric grinder in the forest.

So, I was just wondering if they were left unhardened by reason of convention, design or frugality.

Seems to be all three. Oh well; we learn something new every day.

That's assuming that the grinder comes with the purchase of the saw. Quite probably, 98% of chainsaw users don't have access to a grinder.

My understanding is that the chain manufacturers coat the outer edges of the cutter with chrome so that they won't dull quite as fast as the steel alone would. That can't be cheap.

 

[elmnut]

Thanks for the lesson, always ready to learn from others expertise!

Talked with a couple of people this afternoon about the properties of cutters, and some things are not adding up. Annealing seems to be more of a process than an end result of improper grinding technique. At any rate a crap job with a grinder can screw up a chain. I looked back at the harbour freight thread, all I learned is no one likes coveredinsap. Any more info on the properties of cutters is welcomed, I would like to learn more, thanks.

 

[hamradio]

How about STIHL's carbide tipped chains?