Help diagnosing my tree?

[jkolko]

I have a wonderful 17 year old Chinkapin Oak, that is starting to shed leaves. It's not Oak Wilt (at least I don't think it is - the leaf pattern doesn't match wilt descriptions); it has this growing on its base:



There are tons of ants on the base, and when I dig out around the stump, I was overrun with ants.

Anyone help me with a diagnosis? Is it dying? Is there anything I can do?

Updated: some more photos;





https://imgur.com/0zdCrzI
https://imgur.com/Qi8vaUe
https://imgur.com/KS3LHu5
https://imgur.com/RgheqBo

I'm in Austin, Texas. It gets plenty of sun and water. No other trees in the yard have any issues.

 

[Oletrapper]

Welcome to the AS site. The Chinkapin is my favorite of all the oaks. First thing I would do is call an Arborist to come look at it. For sure, the ants are a problem but are probably there because of an underlying problem with the trees health. Kinda like a fly laying eggs on a dead animal. I feel certain an qualified arborist can help. Let us know how it turns out. jmho OT

 

[jkolko]

Thanks; we had an arborist come out, and she told me it was dying, there was nothing I could do about it, and I should cut it down before it falls on the house She attributed it to the freeze/hot/freeze/hot that's been completely annihilating Austin over the last few years.

I'm working on getting a second opinion :|

 

[Oletrapper]

Thanks; we had an arborist come out, and she told me it was dying, there was nothing I could do about it, and I should cut it down before it falls on the house She attributed it to the freeze/hot/freeze/hot that's been completely annihilating Austin over the last few years.

I'm working on getting a second opinion :|

Are there other Chinkapins on the property? If so, are any of them showing any of the same symptoms? I'm a little suspect of her diagnosis if you have other Chinkapins and none are showing any signs like the one in question.
Mean time, I would get some ant powder or spray to eliminate that issue. It appeared in the one photo that there is gravel and plants around the base of the tree. I would get rid of those. You may have something as simple as girdle root. That happens when the feeder roots can't grow outward in search for water but wind up growing around the tree and basically strangling the tree. You can dig down to determine if that is happening. Google girdle root for a better explanation and how to resolve. Good luck and I hope she is wrong. 17 years is nothing for a Chinkapin. Lots of them here in KY well over 100. We get worse winters here than you do. Freeze/hot freeze/hot etc. OT
Found this and thought I would save you the time. Great article.
https://tfsweb.tamu.edu/uploadedFil...ree Solutions - Correcting girdling roots.pdf

 

[jkolko]

Are there other Chinkapins on the property? If so, are any of them showing any of the same symptoms? I'm a little suspect of her diagnosis if you have other Chinkapins and none are showing any signs like the one in question.
Mean time, I would get some ant powder or spray to eliminate that issue. It appeared in the one photo that there is gravel and plants around the base of the tree. I would get rid of those. You may have something as simple as girdle root. That happens when the feeder roots can't grow outward in search for water but wind up growing around the tree and basically strangling the tree. You can dig down to determine if that is happening. Google girdle root for a better explanation and how to resolve. Good luck and I hope she is wrong. 17 years is nothing for a Chinkapin. Lots of them here in KY well over 100. OT

Thank you; great recommendations, and will try.

 

[jkolko]

Suggestions on an ant powder that will work but doesn't further hurt the tree?

 

[Oletrapper]

Suggestions on an ant powder that will work but doesn't further hurt the tree?

A local nursery can answer that question or just read the labels. I doubt that any would hurt the tree. They are usually just pesticides and not herbicides. OT

 

[Oletrapper]

Thank you; great recommendations, and will try.

Found this. Great article and from your state.
https://tfsweb.tamu.edu/uploadedFil...ree Solutions - Correcting girdling roots.pdf

 

[jkolko]

Excellent. Thank you. Tamu is a wonderful resource here; they offer a lot of free materials to the general public.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

From your pics of the base, I see two things. First is what appears to be a big girdling root wrapping around left part of trunk. Even the bark pattern appears to confirm this. And second, the base gives the appearance that the tree may be planted too deep. I would confirm these 2 things, then correct them asap before going too far down other paths. I've seen some trees make stunning recoveries from root and crown work. I am an arborist, and I second the recommendation to pay one to come out.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

ETA: sorry, I just saw that you had an arborist come out. I say they missed that girdling root and all that excess soil around base. And to be brutally honest, I've recovered several trees that had a previous arborist come out and say it was lost - or needed a bunch of routine treatments. It sad, but true. Call a really reputable one who has a reputation for saving trees. If they say remove, then you know.

I just visited a customer last week that I excavated the crowns of 11 trees back in mid-May. I was checking up on them because I removed 6-10" of mulch from around them, and cut away landscape cloth covering the flare, and took care of a few girdling roots. He took me to the black cherry and said it was the first time in like 3-4 years that a particular limb on the tree hasn't had all it's leaves turn yellow and fall off by end of June. Limb looked great, and we've had brutal hot weather for a month.

 

[jkolko]

Thank you very much. Second-opinion arborist is coming today.

 

[jkolko]

I had a great arborist visit today. He described that the tree is actually fine; the leaves that are shedding are because they are on the lower parts of the canopy and get little light, the tree is not dying, and the real issue to be concerned about is the choking girdling, just like you described. We removed more soil:



I'm going to cut root B now, and then in the Fall, we are going to do airspade work and a potassium phosphate salt drench.

Thanks all for your help.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Awesome. Glad you found somebody to work with you. By the way, keep their number and don't call anybody else!

 

[jkolko]

Two weeks have gone by, and it rained more than usual in Austin. The fungus that was my original cause for concern has come back; additionally, it seems to now be growing on some nearby plants.

Any thoughts on what this is?

 

[thenne1713]

Are there other Chinkapins on the property? If so, are any of them showing any of the same symptoms? I'm a little suspect of her diagnosis if you have other Chinkapins and none are showing any signs like the one in question.
Mean time, I would get some ant powder or spray to eliminate that issue. It appeared in the one photo that there is gravel and plants around the base of the tree. I would get rid of those. You may have something as simple as girdle root. That happens when the feeder roots can't grow outward in search for water but wind up growing around the tree and basically strangling the tree. You can dig down to determine if that is happening. Google girdle root for a better explanation and how to resolve. Good luck and I hope she is wrong. 17 years is nothing for a Chinkapin. Lots of them here in KY well over 100. We get worse winters here than you do. Freeze/hot freeze/hot etc. OT
Found this and thought I would save you the time. Great article.
https://tfsweb.tamu.edu/uploadedFiles/TFS_Main/Urban_and_Community_Forestry/About_Urban_and_Community_Forestry/Urban_Forest_Information_Sheets/Technical Tree Solutions - Correcting girdling roots.pdf

I AM thinking ROOT ROT, and probably hollow inside, (hammer or drill can verify)l probably cause is a missing rotted/ removed limb on top of a large limb and close to the trunk= unseen rot and possible limb rot and canoeing of limb top. Carpenter ants are NOT an issue or cause, they are a SYMPTOM, as they only tunnel thru/ remove soft rotten wood. My old 5-ft dia. oak had huge rot inside, unseen, 40-ft limb canoed, large sucker removed by arborist just inches from trunk had put unseen rot into limb top and down into trunk, After removal, (determined by drilling thru w/ 3-ftx1/2" bit) found only 1" of structural wood on majority of circumference. How the entire tree had survived 60-mph storms is a wonder. Mushrooms and fungus are also a SYMPTOM of dead wood that is not drying out... not a cause... ALL OF THIS BECOMES EVIDENT AFTER TREE CUT DOWN AND into sections. This is short version of findings after removal.

 

[thenne1713]

On other side, I have seen perfectly green, healthy looking 16-20" trunk oak trees near sidewalk fall over in winds w/ roots rotten all the way to trunk; was a bit surprised by that one

 

[Bullseye T&L]

The fungus that's in your pics looks an awful lot like Pseudoinonotus dryadeus; (aka, oak bracket fungus, or weeping polypore). If you look at the closeup pic, you can see the pores weeping. Ironically, that's the same fungus in my avatar. I would touch base with your arborist and and get him to check it out. Generally, that's a sign of decay. HOWEVER, since you just excavated all that soil from root crown, you know that bark down there is not in spectacular shape, and that may be "the decay". I wouldn't even begin to guess at whether there are cavities back there. That may be a bit of leap.

 

[J D]

It looks like the ground there has been raised all around by the pavers, stones, etc. That's going to send more water to the base of the tree which also looks to have had the soil level raised over time. Add a good layer of mulch & some wet weather to that & the base of the tree is going to be far damper for far longer than it would want to be I'm sure.
Not saying thats going to be the problem, but I can't see it helping matters

 

[jkolko]

Thank you all. It does very much look like bracket fungus. We are going to wait until Fall and do some more excavating at that point. This has been very helpful.