LOL...there are those who would do that. Even in this day and age.
Most of them sit in mahogany paneled offices far away from the logging country and plot new ways to turn trees into dollars. And that's all the timber means to them...just dollars.
Help me gauge field Level Of Knowledge regarding Forest Pathology
- Thread starter madhatte
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
LOL...there are those who would do that. Even in this day and age.
Most of them sit in mahogany paneled offices far away from the logging country and plot new ways to turn trees into dollars. And that's all the timber means to them...just dollars.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Didn't old Gifford Pinchot think exactly that.
The way I understand it, it was supposed to prevent the spread of some kind of tree disease. Here's the good part...that particular disease was not present, and never had been present, in that particular part of the woods. Nobody could really tell us if was going to actually do any real good. Nobody told us much of anything at all.
Madhatte could probably give us a better fix on just what disease it was we were preventing. I wish he'd been there. Squeaky would get all upset when we asked too many questions and get positively irate if we really pressed for answers. "It's in the contract" was her basic response...and usually her only one.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Just powder the whole place, like liming an acid lake.
Ssssshhhhhhh!!! Don't give 'em any ideas.
Up here it was cut it, low burn it, black grow it back. Or cut it low, plant it to grass& trees, turn cows out, cows eat seedlings.
Loggers cut logs. Foresters suppossedly show them where to cut logs.
The disconnect on USFS & BLM is the summer crews who do not have a clue about extracting logs.
Loggers cut logs. Foresters suppossedly show them where to cut logs.
The disconnect on USFS & BLM is the summer crews who do not have a clue about extracting logs.
Borax as a disease retardant has been largely discredited as being ineffective, expensive, and negatively affecting native vegetation. Fortunately, that discredit came from the very contracts you guys are describing, where it didn't work, or at least not well enough to justify the expense and side-effects. Fact is, forest pathogens co-evolved with their hosts and the two keep each other in check. Without disease, forests would grow to one (huge) size and stop. This is why Clements' idea of a "climax" community is considered archaic .
As for solving the problem? Yeah, well, I'll let you know.
As for solving the problem? Yeah, well, I'll let you know.
The planners do not listen to such info. I believe that quite a few of them will not change because to do so would entail taking more time to type a different page or two, instead of just replacing one sale name with another throughout the document. Harsh? Well, I've read a few environmental assessments where they missed changing the name of the sale and have the previously sold sale name in the document.
I also heard that subsoiling skid trails was passe' but our folks insist it must be done. I mentioned that it often popped the roots of trees when done with a subsoiler in thinnings. I was told that that was my fault for locating skid trails TOO CLOSE TO THE LEAVE TREES. Mind you, this is Western Warshington where trees are spaced a wee bit closer together. Probably the greatest spacing was 28 feet at the max and randomly done.
Reason number ?? for retiring.
Good luck. As people my age, both government and private sector, retire and leave this business, the responsibility falls to you. I think you'll have it tougher than we did.
You have better tools to deal with the ever increasing complexity of managing the timber and the land. You have better science, better equipment, and better communication. You'll need them.
Maybe it's like the prime axiom of medical practice..."First, do no harm".
RandyMac
Stiff Member
I'm thinkin' the "The Moustache Of Understanding" will have a better chance at fitting the puzzle pieces in place, than a book learnt egghead. There is no substitute for on the ground expirience.
Nate, lookin' forward to chewing over "stuff" with you.
Nate, lookin' forward to chewing over "stuff" with you.
Unfortunately, unless The Moustache Of Understanding has at least a Master's Degree in pathology, nobody in the higher ranks will consider the solution credible.
Hmmmm. The sun is blazing in and I see a solid smudge of dried dog nose liquid on the lower 1/5 of the window in the door. I'll have to do something about that.
Master's Degree. Harrumph. Well, I still have a bunch of GI Bill money left to burn, and more and more it's looking like I'm gonna need the Paper Leverage that stupid degree will give me, so I guess I'd better get crackin' before that cash turns to a pumpkin.
Meanwhile, Randy, June is just a few weeks off and you can bet I've got a head full of hot issues I'm steamed about which can only be worked out through liberal application of booze, tobacco and BS'in.
Edit: Oh, and as for
I've seen the same. What? Gov't agencies boiler-plating documents? UNHEARD-OF
Meanwhile, Randy, June is just a few weeks off and you can bet I've got a head full of hot issues I'm steamed about which can only be worked out through liberal application of booze, tobacco and BS'in.
Edit: Oh, and as for
I've seen the same. What? Gov't agencies boiler-plating documents? UNHEARD-OF
Last edited:
This is the reason for the boiler plating.
"I need to get that done and out of the way so I can do my REAL job."
I was never sure what was considered to be their real job since the majority of their funding came from the timber budget. Oh well. Retirement is good. Gotta go do stuff.
"I need to get that done and out of the way so I can do my REAL job."
I was never sure what was considered to be their real job since the majority of their funding came from the timber budget. Oh well. Retirement is good. Gotta go do stuff.
New question, same general theme:
Where have you seen Blue Stain in Ponderosa Pine, and how severe was it? Where is it most commonly in the stem (i.e. first log, second log, etc)? How closely associated with pine beetles does it appear to be? Do you see it in apparently-healthy trees, or only in declining or dead ones?
Where have you seen Blue Stain in Ponderosa Pine, and how severe was it? Where is it most commonly in the stem (i.e. first log, second log, etc)? How closely associated with pine beetles does it appear to be? Do you see it in apparently-healthy trees, or only in declining or dead ones?
RPM
ArboristSite Operative
Typically, I see stain in green ponderosa attacked trees similar to mountain pine beetle in Lodgepole pine. Our ponderosa got tag teamed by both the mountain pine beetle and western pine beetle these last couple of years so I am not totaly sure which one causes the stain to spread any quicker.
The pictures are from a Ponderosa salvage log that I supervised in 2009 in the south Okanagan valley. The stain like lodgepole pine is most noticable in the lower bole - up to 20' and drops off. The height of stain I think is related more to where the tree was attacked and entry points. I don't know how much the tree can transport the stain up the stem.
View attachment 183634View attachment 183635View attachment 183636
The pictures are from a Ponderosa salvage log that I supervised in 2009 in the south Okanagan valley. The stain like lodgepole pine is most noticable in the lower bole - up to 20' and drops off. The height of stain I think is related more to where the tree was attacked and entry points. I don't know how much the tree can transport the stain up the stem.
View attachment 183634View attachment 183635View attachment 183636
Excellent information, thank you. In case you're wondering, what I'm after is ground-based divergence from the "available literature". I've been finding some things which are inconsistent with the way "the books" say they should be, and I am interested in finding if I'm the only one finding this stuff.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
blue stain
I've noticed blue stain starting on Ponderosa when the bark is tight and the tree showing just a few red needles.
Under the area where it is being hit by beetles.
The wood does not appear to have weakened in regard to the holding capability of the holding wood.
============
This is in regard to beetle kill trees being removed.
In some instances we were allowed to remove hazard trees from near roads that hadn't 'died' yet but were showing enough beetle hits to be deemed worthy.
So this was on Ponderosa over 2 foot in diameter.
I've noticed blue stain starting on Ponderosa when the bark is tight and the tree showing just a few red needles.
Under the area where it is being hit by beetles.
The wood does not appear to have weakened in regard to the holding capability of the holding wood.
============
This is in regard to beetle kill trees being removed.
In some instances we were allowed to remove hazard trees from near roads that hadn't 'died' yet but were showing enough beetle hits to be deemed worthy.
So this was on Ponderosa over 2 foot in diameter.
Last edited:
OK, new question, same theme:
Let's say that you fall a tree with a bit of a lean. The wood is extra-abrasive near the outside of the sapwood, perhaps to the point of throwing sparks. Further in, it gets very soft, until, popping the face out, you see that the center is hollow. You put the back cut in, and the tree comes down without major incident, aside from a chain that needs touched up. The wood visible on the stump is all sorts of different colors and textures, and the rot in the log looks to go at least five feet up the butt.
Is there any good reason to bother figuring out what caused the tree to be like this, or do you just buck it up and leave the butt as CWD? Is there anybody on the landing who is interested in knowing about this sort of thing, or is it a non-issue on the ground?
Let's say that you fall a tree with a bit of a lean. The wood is extra-abrasive near the outside of the sapwood, perhaps to the point of throwing sparks. Further in, it gets very soft, until, popping the face out, you see that the center is hollow. You put the back cut in, and the tree comes down without major incident, aside from a chain that needs touched up. The wood visible on the stump is all sorts of different colors and textures, and the rot in the log looks to go at least five feet up the butt.
Is there any good reason to bother figuring out what caused the tree to be like this, or do you just buck it up and leave the butt as CWD? Is there anybody on the landing who is interested in knowing about this sort of thing, or is it a non-issue on the ground?
RPM
ArboristSite Operative
Was it located on an old stream fan / flood plain where there is evidence of past slides / debris flows / high water events? What is the spp?
We have an area around here that was logged back when the CPR rail mainline was pushed through (this is the transcontinental railway). The stand at the time was large old growth cedar and was on a large alluvial fan. The second growth stand is on top of the last large debris flow event and the old growth stumps are buried about 1/2 way up (they are tall spring board stumps). I know the last debris went half way up b/c I can see the ground layer inside that the old growth stump grew on. Kinda neat if you are into hydrogeomorphic processes -- that one is for gologit
Last edited:
