Help! New to saws. What safety equipment?

[ANewSawyer]

Hello! I came to this site on a recommendation from an other forum . I just picked up my first saw yesterday. I have worked a little on a two cycle trimmer, so I am not totally alien to two cycle engines. I have also tuned a carb before. It is a second hand Husky 435. Seems to be in decent shape and should make a good leaner saw. I am not looking to become a logger, but even for the small work (read: tiny, tiny trees. Less than 20 feet tall. More like large saplings.) I am going to do I need the basic safety equipment. Small work but still the danger from the saw. The Husky's manual recommends a helmet, hearing protection, eye protection and saw resistant gloves, trousers and boots. I will probably go with chaps over the trousers. I know Husky sells a helmet with a visor and ear muff style protection too. I would wear my regular safety glasses under the visor. Husky also sells chaps and gloves. Is there any reason not to go with the stuff Husky makes? The only problem I can see is that it might be over priced. That just leaves the boots. I do need a good pair of steel toed, non slip sole boots. But I no idea what brands or styles to look at. I do need a good pair but I don't need a $500 professional pair.

 

[Philbert]

Welcome to AS!

Those are the basics. Choose stuff that you will actually wear - otherwise it is worthless. And remember that all PPE is backup protection - it does not substitute for good practice.

Husky chaps and helmet system are OK and reasonably priced. Basic steel toed boots and gloves OK for general use. Lot of guys here also like the Labonville brand chaps.

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

Thanks for the welcome, Mr Philbert!

I downloaded the manual for the 435. It has been very informative. But I would like to find a course in saw handling. Don't have a clue where to look though.

I looked up Labonville and they looks like nice chaps. But I am slightly confused on one point. Most places list saw protection as class 1 through 3. (<didn't know about that till today.) But Labonville doesn't list any rating except that "Our chainsaw chaps meet all OSHA requirements and are UL CLASS A classified". But I can't find out what a Underwriter's Laboratory Class A rating is.

Also, any recommendation for brands I should look at in boots?

 

[Philbert]

You can call Labonville and should be able to ask a live person questions. The classes may have to do with the thickness, or amount of energy absorbed, or could even have to do with being rated for forest fire fighting! Key thing with chaps, is that they can be hot and heavy to wear. If you buy some that are much more than you need, you may find excuses to not wear them. For the saw and use you describe, a basic pair of apron (front only) or wrap (cover back of your calves) chaps should be sufficient. I find them much more comfortable to wear with suspenders.

There are special chainsaw protective boots with similar protective fibers in the instep and sides. These can be very expensive. Some all rubber versions start around $120 (?) and leather ones tend to be $200 or more. They provide more protection than just a steel toe. But a pair of heavy work boots with a steel toe or instep (aka 'metatarsal guards') are a good start.

Training is always a good idea. There are some basic videos on YouTube, but some of them are junk. Generally, the STIHL series and Husqvarna series are pretty good.





Nothing beats hand-on instruction. I don't know where you live, but I have attended training sessions put on by saw companies (e.g. STIHL, Jonsered, etc.), larger dealers, and our State OSHA guys. There are some national forests in Minnesota and the USFS occasionally puts on training sessions for trail maintenance volunteers, who are required to attend. If you look for any trail clubs in your state (horse, ski, bike, ATV, etc.) you might find something. Or ask around at all of the saw shops, and tree equipment dealers.

Nationally, there are some programs put on by 'The Game of Logging' or sponsored by arborist suppliers.

Here is a good USFS manual too:
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/php/library_card.php?p_num=0667 2C01

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

I watched the whole Husqvarna vid. Thanks!!! It is to late to start the Stihl vid tonight.

According to wikipedia and an other site, clarkforest, the classes rate up to what speed the chaps resist cutting.

According to the second site, any pair of cut resistant chaps should be enough. And like you said, keep them light. I am leaning towards one of Husqvarna's protective power kits. I would choose between the homeowner and the landowner. Main difference it that the homeowner just comes with a face mesh and hearing protection. No hardhat in the homeowner set but the landowner has a hard hat but I suspect the landowner's chaps are heavier. Still, I think I would lean towards the landowner. Either way, I can get both for around the same price, $100 shipped. While that might seem cheap, I feel like it is about the right amount of equipment for my tasks.

Boots, I am still looking. Husq, makes cut resistant ones that are about $100. Maybe I should start with a good pair of steel toe and save for cut resistant?

 

[derwoodii]

heaps to watch and learn here.

use your head 1st to keep from harms way sure PPE boot chaps etc are great but come second to predicting planning & practice

http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/Multimedia/Videos.asp?ReportID=36885

 

[ANewSawyer]

Thanks for the link, derwoodii! You are right, without good thinking and planning, you can still injure yourself seriously.

If anybody else has good advice, please post it! And thanks for the great advice.

 

[HuskStihl]

It sounds like u'r taking the whole thing appropriately seriously. You've found Philbert, who knows nearly everything about almost anything (seriously) and as always, his advice is great.

I would add a few things about saw use (not ordered for importance).....
1) become proficient at chain sharpening. A sharp chain allows you and the saw to work more efficiently
2) always be aware of where the tip of the bar is, and make sure you keep it from touching anything other than air
3) cut with the bottom of the bar exclusively until you gain experience
4) keep u'r left arm (on the top handle) straight and strong to prevent the saw from kicking back too far if you forget #2 above, and to keep the bar far from u'r head and neck
5) activate the chain brake when moving around with a running saw
6) if you start getting tired, take a break

 

[ANewSawyer]

I tried to get into saws about six month ago and asked for advice on an other forum. I was not taking it seriously enough. So most my questions got answered with "You are going to kill yourself." It made me mad at the time. But, they did refer me to AS and it did make me reconsider how dangerous saw are. So that when I did pick this saw up, I knew to be careful. Am still hoping to find a class but I suspect it will be quite a challenge. I have some logs in the back yard from a half dead box elder. Most of them are between 8-12" in diameter. Do you think it would be safe to practice on them without training? Just using the bottom of the bar. I think that is called the pull chain? Oh, and definitely wearing protection any time I run the saw.

On the topic of PPE, I am trying to decide between Husq's Professional and Landowner kit. I want a helmet of some kind. I don't think any helmet would save me from a widow maker but could keep me from getting a stick in my scalp. Which I am more likely to deal with than a widow maker. I can get both kits off of Ebay for almost the exact same price. I like the fact the professional comes with cut resistant gloves (which I probably don't need). But I figure the chaps on the professional will be heavier. Oh well, I am not in any real hurry to make a decision.

Actually, I am curious about saw sharpening. I am a recovered pocket knife addict and current decent knife sharpener. Machetes and sharpening them with a flat file is what brought me into pocket knife sharpening on a stone. If I understand correctly, a chain is a form of cross cut saw and is chisel ground. Anyway, I could talk about sharpening and sharp things all night long... But realizing just how sharp those chains SHOULD be gives me the willies.

 

[Philbert]

Lots of folks use saws without much training. I used them periodically for 3o years without much training. Only started to look into training when I got involved with some volunteer storm cleanup groups. Then I realized that I had been lucky, not safe. See if you can find someone locally to get you started: tell us where you live, and maybe someone here will offer to help.

The Husqvarna 'Home Owner' and 'Land Owner' kits have the same consumer grade chaps: one has the helmet/face screen/ear muffs; the other has headband style ear muffs and a face screen. Get the helmet - you will want it later even if not now. You can usually get the same stuff separately, for about the same price, at a local Lowe's or from sponsors like Bailey's. The 'Professional' kit has the heavier, wrap style chaps, mentioned earlier. Again, you can probably get this stuff separately for about the same price at a local Husqvarna dealer (and try it on). You might get a better deal, and upgraded chaps, from Labonville. Suspenders are $10-$15 at any home center or work wear store. The safety glasses they give you cost around $3. The gloves don't fit me (and are only cut resistant on the back of the Left glove) so not a deal for me.

Saw sharpening is a whole 'nother topic. Lots of threads on that here if you use the search function (or search via Google 'Arboristsite, chain sharpening'). Lots of personal preferences and biases on this topic. The YouTube videos referred to earlier cover basic sharpening. More info in the Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm (lots of good information on chains in there).

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

My local Lowe's wants $60 for the consumer chaps. For that price plus a little, I could get a basic pair of Labonville chaps. Like these: http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety...ps/Chaps/Labonville-Chainsaw-Safety-Chaps.axd

 

[Philbert]

I have a pair of those Husqvarna chaps. I like them. I wear them. If I was to replace them I would probably try the Labonville (which is why I mentioned them a few times).

Again, buy something that you like so that you will wear them. $10 difference will not mean anything in a year or so, or after one close call.

Philbert

 

[ANewSawyer]

I looked at the Husq chaps at lowe's today. They were lighter than I expected. Got the helmet while I was there and have it put together. Went to Walmart to see what they had in steel toed boots. The main brand I looked at was dickie's. I was not impressed. Nothing felt very comfortable. Needed a size 12 1/2 based on trying sizes 12 and 13 boots. But I don't think Dickie's makes that size.

I forgot something and may have to go back next week. I might just get the chaps.

Mr. Philbert and everybody, thank you for all your help. I wish there was a member near me but I kinda doubt it. By the time I lay in all the safety equipment and get the carb tuned, I will probably have found a class. I am watching the videos in the mean time.

 

[computeruser]

If you watch and rewatch that Husqvarna training video series, you will be well equipped to get out and practice in a controlled environment. There are a lot of other good videos on YouTube that can help speed up the learning curve. Focus on European training videos, I think they do a better job than the US ones at getting a new operator started on the right track.

Saw operation is not rocket science. It is just physics at high RPM. Be careful and confident in the things you can do, and damned cautious when operating outside your then-present comfort zone. Your comfort zone and skillset will grow as you get experience sizing up trees and reading their behavior when cutting them.

HuskySthil's suggestions are good. Also, remember that a saw is a saw, and not a hedge trimmer or a scythe or a prybar or whatever else.

I would not necessarily discount using both sides of the bar. Just learn when, where, and why to use them. Trying to turn a simple top-bar cut into a complicated bottom-bar cut is no certain path to safety, after all.

Maybe I just read too fast, but where are you located? I think that an hour of hands-on instruction with someone who knows what they are doing and is versed in the current practices/training methods would speed the learning curve for you. Some ******* hillbilly with bad cutting technique would be a waste of your time, obviously, but someone competent could offer some helpful guidance.

 

[Philbert]

I wish there was a member near me but I kinda doubt it.

Don't know unless you let us know where you are. Folks here in US, Canada, Europe, Middle East, Australia, . . .

A.S. members frequently have area get-to-gethers (GTG) around the country where we share information, try each other's saws, BS, etc. I will be going to one in WI next Saturday just for an excuse to run saws.

Philberty

 

[ANewSawyer]

Truth be told, I am just reluctant to meet someone that I only know through a forum. For all I know they could be another Craig's List Killer. Of course the people on here aren't crazy like that. All we do is run one of the most dangerous power tools in existence felling multi ton compressed springs. No, we are crazy at all...

Not trying to be rude. Just being honest. Maybe I could just wait for a get together in my neck of the woods: eastern TN.

 

[Philbert]

(Too bad. All the real crazies live in Tennessee . . .).

Seriously, several of our long time, regular members live over that way. I'll let them introduce themselves.

Philbert

 

[mdavlee]

What part of TN?

 

[ANewSawyer]

(Too bad. All the real crazies live in Tennessee . . .).

Seriously, several of our long time, regular members live over that way. I'll let them introduce themselves.

Philbert

Well, if they are as nice as you Phil, they couldn't be too crazy.

mdavlee, I am in the eastern part of TN. In the foothills of the Smokies. Where are you?

 

[mdavlee]

I'm between Rogersville and Bristol