Help with finding a local repair expert that won't rob me!

[Okie]

You wrote this.

But because I am priming as I try to start there is gas all over the place running out of the bottom of the carb intake opening. Even with priming the excess gas should be returning through the carb to the gas tank. Diaphragm or needle seat leaking and the engine flooding when the saw is going for a hot re-start. (and the H jet set CW too far (lean) and causing a overheat. I can confirm lean conditions on a chainsaw with a infrared thermometer aimed at the block during a full bar cut.

AND you asked this.

What is 'cooked it' ?

Usually means that you have the H jet set little bit too far in CW and the saw is running lean when in the cut and the engine overheats. Set the H jet CCW as far as you can and still get a good cut.

What do you think you was the major done to get er going good?

AND takes patience when working on some of them little Homies.
I keep a back-up saw handy because them little homies can go down all at once sometimes.

When storing I dump the gas and let it sit and idle until it quits, then apply choke and attempt a re-start.(and do not store the saw in a building or area where the temperature gets really hot)

 

[OuchmyCSBroke]

Omcsb, when I zoom in on your saw picture it looks like there is a low (L) and a high (H) adjustment opening aft of the starter handle . Where is this + that you mentioned ?

Thank you for the thoughtful and accurate comment/question.

Correct, the other screw is above the L & H screws, it sets the Idle speed. I have good instructions from Zama for setting these, however it appears they would work well on a new engine, but on mine, 20 years of occasional use and few tune ups, those instructions are not enough. So, for example, the L setting needs be 1/8th under 2 full turns out from bottom, in order to start the engine. Then according to Zama, needs adjust IN till the motor wants to slow a little, in my case that's about 1/4 turn, then back off ( out ) the Idle screw till the chain nearly stops moving. At that point they say turn the L screw back out a 1/4 to permit throttle opening up the engine so that it will not bog and stall. Next they say do the same thing for the H needle. Obviously I did not get that far yet. But no doubt I will, in the end, get this wee saw back to its happy self - ie easy, but smokey, starts and nice easy revving / running etc. BTW I sharpen my own blades, this one being No 2 since new, and yes I have both the cut / round file , and the flat / depth file kit. IOW I never seemed to need a fancy sharpener.
Thank you.

 

[OuchmyCSBroke]

You wrote this.

But because I am priming as I try to start there is gas all over the place running out of the bottom of the carb intake opening. Even with priming the excess gas should be returning through the carb to the gas tank.

Thankyou for the diagnosis! What should I look for inside the Carb that is not working to send the excess back to the tank?

Diaphragm or needle seat leaking and the engine flooding

Ok so what do I need to do inside the Carb to correct the diaphragm/ needle seat leaking?


when the saw is going for a hot re-start. (and the H jet set CW too far (lean) and causing a overheat.

Ok I understand that comment very well, and obviously I leaned the H screw too much, next time I will make sure it is turned out 1/16th? as Zama tune up directs.


I can confirm lean conditions on a chainsaw with a infrared thermometer aimed at the block during a full bar cut.

AND you asked this.

What is 'cooked it' ?

Usually means that you have the H jet set little bit too far in CW and the saw is running lean when in the cut and the engine overheats. Set the H jet CCW as far as you can and still get a good cut.

What do you think you was the major done to get er going good?

Well I did not get er going good yet, but the Trufuel 93 Octane zero Ethanol mix, and turning the L screw IN 1/8th - from 2 full turns out off of fully in - on the cold start, and a wee bit of choke got it to fire and run.

AND takes patience when working on some of them little Homies.

It used start every time with a couple of bulb presses and half choke, too it ran like a train...until I put the evil 10%Ethanol Gas /Sythetic 50:1 mix into it.


I keep a back-up saw handy because them little homies can go down all at once sometimes.

When storing I dump the gas and let it sit and idle until it quits, then apply choke and attempt a re-start.(and do not store the saw in a building or area where the temperature gets really hot)

Me too, I am an absolute detail person for my tools and mechanical appliances. I completely drain the tank, and keep er running till stall from lack of fuel, then mash on the bulb and try a start or two.

 

[Okie]

Just another hint about the carb leaking gas when the primer bulb. is being used.

The EXTERNALLY mounted type primer bulb that has two lines attached to the bulb on most 2 cycle engine sucks fuel through the carb and sends (pumps) the excess back to the fuel tank and you can push the primer bulb all day long and no flooding of fuel in the air box should be seen UNLESS something is leaking inside the air box like for example the fuel lines, primer bulb output return line, carb diaphragm, or the needle/seat of the carb allowing fuel to flood through the carb to the carb throat and flood a hot engine when the engine is killed, but run almost ok when the engine is eventually started, but the jets would most likely appear to be critical of adjustment because the engine is trying to run too rich. Look at the You tube link below and see if your primer bulb system is of this type!

But because I am priming as I try to start there is gas all over the place running out of the bottom of the carb intake opening. Even with priming the excess gas should be returning through the carb to the gas tank.

Thankyou for the diagnosis! What should I look for inside the Carb that is not working to send the excess back to the tank?


Ok so what do I need to do inside the Carb to correct the diaphragm/ needle seat leaking?

Look at this video of how to test and connect a primer bulb system that SUCKS fuel through the carb and sends the excess back to the fuel tank on the return line. This type of primer bulb system DOES not FORCE fuel to the carb, it's suck fuel through the carb.


Is this the type of primer bulb system you Homie 2 has?

What is the model of your Zama carb?

 

[OuchmyCSBroke]

Just another hint about the carb leaking gas when the primer bulb. is being used.

The EXTERNALLY mounted type primer bulb that has two lines attached to the bulb on most 2 cycle engine sucks fuel through the carb and sends (pumps) the excess back to the fuel tank and you can push the primer bulb all day long and no flooding of fuel in the air box should be seen UNLESS something is leaking inside the air box like for example the fuel lines, primer bulb output return line, carb diaphragm, or the needle/seat of the carb allowing fuel to flood through the carb to the carb throat and flood a hot engine when the engine is killed, but run almost ok when the engine is eventually started, but the jets would most likely appear to be critical of adjustment because the engine is trying to run too rich. Look at the You tube link below and see if your primer bulb system is of this type!

But because I am priming as I try to start there is gas all over the place running out of the bottom of the carb intake opening. Even with priming the excess gas should be returning through the carb to the gas tank.

Thankyou for the diagnosis! What should I look for inside the Carb that is not working to send the excess back to the tank?


Ok so what do I need to do inside the Carb to correct the diaphragm/ needle seat leaking?

Look at this video of how to test and connect a primer bulb system that SUCKS fuel through the carb and sends the excess back to the fuel tank on the return line. This type of primer bulb system DOES not FORCE fuel to the carb, it's suck fuel through the carb.


Is this the type of primer bulb system you Homie 2 has?
Yes, remote type; I checked it and find the lines hooked up wrong, I corrected that and checked for fuel leaking from the carb when priming, and find no leaks ! Again you are correct! Thank you, no mess on starting up tests.

What is the model of your Zama carb?

Carb model is C1Q-H42

Thank you okie for the accurate trouble shoot! Remotely fixing things is a skill in itself.

I did a test start and now find the L needle has to be 2 + 1/2 ish turns out to get going, and adding a bit to look for optimum run, then back off again enough to stop any bog on throttle opening. As well, did the H needle with the same procedure ; start with high Idle, then turn screw in till the engine barely lowers, back a off a 1/16th turn and then out a wee bit more to stop engine bogging down when I open the throttle.

My CS is running great ....but when I shut it off with the Ignition On/Off button I cannot get it started again. Ummm think I may have over done the L screw.

Or perhaps there is something going on with the Diaphragm / Needle ?

 

[sonny580]

It seams that the C1Q-Hxx series carbs are kinda picky, and hard to get set. --Least I have trouble with that series. Don't have a 2.0, but have a 27, 33, 38, two 46's, plus a bunch more! Did get one to go with a chimineese knock-off jobber. thanks; sonny580

 

[Okie]

Now go back and check the basics.

Give it a new correct type spark plug gapped correctly. Might be a champion DJ-7J but not sure. Check the gap as .025-.030

A little measley weak spark plug can make you really feel weak.

Leave the air filter off for now. (in case it's mixed gas clogged)

Make sure that the muffler does not have a clogged spark arrestor screen. I usually just take the screen out and give it a toss. OMG Some saws will start good cold and run ok until they start getting hot with a restricted screen.

I would remove the muffler and leave the muffler off and pay attention to the exhaust cylinder when trying for a re-start. If you see wetness of the piston exhaust area after several cranks it's flooding when going for a hot re-start. If it seems to be completely dry ease the piston down and give it just a itty bitty shot of mixed gas on top of the piston and then crank with wide open throttle and no choke. You are trying to figure out if it's flooding or wanting gas too get a start when hot. If you let it sit for several hours and it's starts easy cold, it's probably flooding when hot.

Does the compression act good on the pull rope when hot. (reason I ask is compression will drop lower when a engine is hot)and if at the critical point they will be hard to re-start, but this don't happen very often. But do not be to quick to condemn compression on one of the little Homies, I've seen them start and run good at 80psi when anything less than 120 is suppose to be the suspect area.

Does the saw sit and idle good if you set it down on ground and let it idle for like one minute or longer?

See where you fiddled with the ignition module. Make sure the module air gap is .010-.012. I initially go for .012 and when the screws are snugged make sure it's not any less than .010

I suspect you are close to getting a good run/start after finding the fuel lines wrong.

 

[Okie]

It seams that the C1Q-Hxx series carbs are kinda picky, and hard to get set. --Least I have trouble with that series. Don't have a 2.0, but have a 27, 33, 38, two 46's, plus a bunch more! Did get one to go with a chimineese knock-off jobber. thanks; sonny580

Might keep sonny580 suggestion in mind.

I see your Zama china clone carb on flea bay here. $14
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor...502359?hash=item3f83e10717:g:IQAAAOSw9p9aYuvc
and lots of good IPL and tips at the ZAMA.com TECHNICAL link.

 

[backhoelover]

I bet the screen in carb is swollen shut

 

[SteveSr]

WARNING! Since you removed the limiter caps from the carb ANY settings for the correct turn opening(s) NO LONGER APPLY! Since the limiters limit rotation to less than 1 full turn (usually 3/4 turn). Usually there is a base setting of a certain number of turns AND THEN the limiter is installed. If you don't have that base setting from the SAW manufacturer you are flying blind and the saw must be tuned by someone who knows how to correctly tune a saw so it doesn't "cook" the saw!

I also noticed some new vertical scratches in the piston photos likely caused by dirt getting into the engine likely through the air filter (or lack thereof). Better fix this before it wears out the top end.

 

[OuchmyCSBroke]

UPDATE:

Well everybody above made accurate suggestions if the Carburetor needle seat is Ok, but in the end - no hot start / bad behavior on opening it up warm etc - concluded that the possible reason why I needed extra lean L screw setting is because the Needle Seat is wore out, or damaged. That is accurate considering its age, 25ish years, and the new 2 cycle synthetic mix + a dose of Ethanol spiked bad gas.

So on buying the Carburetor, listed above, from Ebay,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253069852916?ul_noapp=true

and fitting it with the Zama throttle bar - the new one does not have the spur on the throttle linkage hookup side see attached pics - and then to the CS,




so now when gassed up starts like the book says couple of pushes on the bulb, half choke and second pull.


But in the time I waited for the new Carburetor I had to buy a CS to get the rest of the branch sawed up. Ended up choosing the BlueMax 45cc combo 14" & 20" at HomeDepot website on one day black Friday sale, free delivery, incl TX tax $162.00. And this new CS is real easy to start. I fit the 20" and find it not as firm a cut as the HL, but bet with an Oregon Bar & Chain it would be better.

Now I have to start a new thread about a yard sale 4 cycle Craftsman Weedeater that will start, but not open up.

 

[OuchmyCSBroke]

It seams that the C1Q-Hxx series carbs are kinda picky, and hard to get set. --Least I have trouble with that series. Don't have a 2.0, but have a 27, 33, 38, two 46's, plus a bunch more! Did get one to go with a chimineese knock-off jobber. thanks; sonny580

Yup got the new Carburetor. See my comment above - these newer replacement models do not have the correct throttle plate lever! I had to remove that from the damaged Zama and fit to the new Chinese knockoff. BTW if you are reading this thread to repeat what I did, beware the little split washer on the end of new Carb throttle plate lever! Mine went into outer space when I eaked it off --- luckily the one on the old Carb is real easy to get off, or put back on, it does not explode as it releases. But putting a rag around its likely path is a good idea.