here it goes!
- Thread starter CanopyGorilla
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treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
I thought this is what this thread would look like. Enjoy boys! I will keep everyone posted. Like I said, here it goes
Whose enjoying it? Really not that interesting, should be in 101, you are making a number of fundamental mistakes before even starting, and you think you are starting your own business....and you are not. Look at how many divorces there are, and neither of you are even getting any tail...I hope
opcorn:
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
have you spoke with anyone about workers comp yet? just curious. It tends to be enlightening IMHO. Thats only needed if you wanna be an actual legit business though. In ohio at least. Oh ya, also.....dont call anyone concerning BWC if your having a bad day. Do it some afternoon after you knock out a really good paying job.
I concur with everyone's comments on partnership. I got burned with a partner. It can work but you have to have clear mutual goals and targets, a clear understanding (preferably in writing) of each other's role. If you are going to have a partner, I would suggest that one is responsible for the business end (sales and marketing, AR, AP, payroll,and other office stuff), while the other looks after the crew and runs the jobs.
I think getting a loan for payroll is a bad idea and I think that getting a mini skid first is a bad idea. You can hire crew to move material when you have work, you still have loan payments on the mini skid even if you don't have work. That is the problem, making sure you have steady, profitable work. When you have loans, you are still making payments even when the work dries up.
I think getting into fertilizing is a good idea if you or your partner have the sales chops to pull it off, it is not the easiest of sales when you don't have the reputation to back up your claims. You can put together a tank unit that will slide into a pick up. We have one that we also use for spraying.
I think getting a loan for payroll is a bad idea and I think that getting a mini skid first is a bad idea. You can hire crew to move material when you have work, you still have loan payments on the mini skid even if you don't have work. That is the problem, making sure you have steady, profitable work. When you have loans, you are still making payments even when the work dries up.
I think getting into fertilizing is a good idea if you or your partner have the sales chops to pull it off, it is not the easiest of sales when you don't have the reputation to back up your claims. You can put together a tank unit that will slide into a pick up. We have one that we also use for spraying.
Good luck.
gorman
Addicted to ArboristSite
My friend went in with a partner on a tree biz bout ten years ago and got real burned. Bad. I never considered it after hearing his story.
If you have a partner make sure he has good business sense.
If you have a partner make sure he has good business sense.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was in a partnership (Inc.) for a year and the plan was his for him to be the landscaper and employees (which he was when he asked me to come in)...and me to do all the tree work with employees I picked (which is all I did prior and he dabbled in it) in Princeton NJ. Within 2 months his crew was trying to do all tree work and they sucked in it while we were making big bucks. It was an ugly breakup ending with me in a jail cell in Hightstown NJ for the night (I could scan the assault and btty. arrest report if you don't believe). Never again. Imagine one guy doing (fun) tree work and one guy (the logger) doing just the office stuff like suggested above? 
Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was in a partnership (Inc.) for a year and the plan was his for him to be the landscaper and employees (which he was when he asked me to come in)...and me to do all the tree work with employees I picked (which is all I did prior and he dabbled in it) in Princeton NJ. Within 2 months his crew was trying to do all tree work and they sucked in it while we were making big bucks. It was an ugly breakup ending with me in a jail cell in Hightstown NJ for the night (I could scan the assault and btty. arrest report if you don't believe). Never again. Imagine one guy doing (fun) tree work and one guy (the logger) doing just the office stuff like suggested above?
It can be done but it has it's fair share of headaches. Communication is key as is commitment to the biz. I've made it work for the past 6 1/2 years but not without effort. If I had it to do again it would be done differently. But I'm sure we could all say that about our ops when we started up.
experience is a brutal teacher. put on your big boy pants.
I just started out full time this year. I was lucky enough to build my business up in the last three years. I had the plan in the back of my head to quit working for the man that doesn't give a **** about me. I worked my ass off on the side and any profits I made went back into equipment. Zero dollars went in my pocket. I put some personal capital as in selling the hd and the rock crawler. I own a nice older bucket, tons of climbing and rigging gear, dodge cummins one ton dump, dodge 3500 dually, 1990 f-350 4x4, couple of snow plows, pj dump trailer, 40 foot pj gooseneck, 24 foot pj skid trailer, bobcat s-185 with lots of attachments, Carlton 4100 d stump grinder 65xl chipper, older 555c tractor backhoe and lots of nice saws! I went into this year with 20 grand in my bank account and zero debt. With a small list of work to do this spring. There is good used stuff out there you just have to shop a lot. I bought my chipper with less 180 hrs on it for less than half price of new. All of my trucks may be old but are presentable with no rust painted white and professionally lettered. I have a pretty good start with equipment to go make some money with. I know I will have to upgrade in the future but it is awesome to start out debt free! I am leaving in about an hour to go pick up a ditch witch mini and I am pumped! I am just going to pay for it no loans. I couldn't imagine starting out with all of that debt. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Good luck!
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
I turned down 2 offers to partner up over the years. One was even from a guy with boat loads of capital who wanted to splurge and go all out buying new equipment. But the issue I saw was problems with so much over head. I also have found that money tends to breed distrust, often justified. I have always remembered something my Dad told me back in the day, "if you wanna lose a friend, move in with them". I believe the concept applies with business.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I also started with basically nothing, and no capital either. All I had was 2 saws, no climbing gear, and not even a pickup just a car. I was working for another guy as a groundie, and doing cut/leave jobs on the side, only stuff that you could fall. Same story as above, every penny went into the business, within 3 months; climbing gear, a couple more saws, then trim jobs for a few months and small removals, a trailer, bigger jobs. After about 6 months I had a pretty good amount of work and was losing work because I was working for the other guy full time still. Took the plunge and went to work for myself, few months later bought my first truck. After 6 more months had more saws, rigging and ropes. Following year bought a stump grinder, more ropes and rigging, more saws, friction drum, more saws, had 3 full time guys working for me by then. Following year flipped the old bomb of a truck, bought a much newer truck and a few months later a chipper. All up took me almost 3 years to get really well setup, but all paid for outright with cash and owned.
Last year wasn't a great year, and I was glad to have paid for all of my gear up front. A lot of guys I knew with loans were sweating it out big time, and the prices for work plummeted. They needed the money for loans and to pay staff, so they just kept competing against each other well into the red zone. I kept my prices where they were and didn't sweat it. Didn't make as much as the previous year but got to take a bit of time off and do some travel and still make quite good coin without the stress. This year hasn't been a very great year so far either, the summer (in aus here!) wasn't as 'frantic' as it usually is, there was steady work but not really pumping like in previous years. Things are always a little quite in January, but they were real quiet this year and work for a lot of guys I know is still only just trickling in. We're in the fall now, heading for winter and I've got a feeling this will be one of the toughest years we've faced for a long time. Old timers say they haven't seen prices for work this low in 20 years. EOFY coming up in a few months, there's already a lot of used gear on the market and nobody is buying it. This winter will be a fantastic time to buy gear in aus. I think this winter will break a lot of residential tree guys, and when they throw the towel in there will be nobody to buy the gear as it was last winter when I bought another pickup for a song.
I'm not really sweating it again. I'm not getting as much work as last year, but there are no bills either. I'm doing some contract climbing and chipping for other guys a day or two a week to keep busy, and I must admit watching them stress out does put a smile on my face. I'm thinking about buying a bucket truck come EOFY, already seen some bargains around. I'll be paying cash again.
Last year wasn't a great year, and I was glad to have paid for all of my gear up front. A lot of guys I knew with loans were sweating it out big time, and the prices for work plummeted. They needed the money for loans and to pay staff, so they just kept competing against each other well into the red zone. I kept my prices where they were and didn't sweat it. Didn't make as much as the previous year but got to take a bit of time off and do some travel and still make quite good coin without the stress. This year hasn't been a very great year so far either, the summer (in aus here!) wasn't as 'frantic' as it usually is, there was steady work but not really pumping like in previous years. Things are always a little quite in January, but they were real quiet this year and work for a lot of guys I know is still only just trickling in. We're in the fall now, heading for winter and I've got a feeling this will be one of the toughest years we've faced for a long time. Old timers say they haven't seen prices for work this low in 20 years. EOFY coming up in a few months, there's already a lot of used gear on the market and nobody is buying it. This winter will be a fantastic time to buy gear in aus. I think this winter will break a lot of residential tree guys, and when they throw the towel in there will be nobody to buy the gear as it was last winter when I bought another pickup for a song.
I'm not really sweating it again. I'm not getting as much work as last year, but there are no bills either. I'm doing some contract climbing and chipping for other guys a day or two a week to keep busy, and I must admit watching them stress out does put a smile on my face. I'm thinking about buying a bucket truck come EOFY, already seen some bargains around. I'll be paying cash again.
CanopyGorilla
climber....sawyer
Thanks for all the replies and advice. I'm taking some of it to heart and throwing some of it out the window. The partner is staying. I think we make a good team. I have revised the items for the loan. We are going to start with a cheap log loader I found locally and filling in the gaps on some rigging gear. We both have climbing gear and saws covered. I'm already making more on the side than at work. My partner lined us up a huge lot clearance job to grease the wheels in the beginning. The loan will be for $23,000 which I don't see as that crazy for a start up. Again, thanks for all the advice even though I wasn't really asking for it. Just posted to hear all the surly comments and laugh at myself a bit, but really did take some nuggets from above.
CanopyGorilla
climber....sawyer
Treevet, you tickle me pal. I always enjoy hearing your blunt way of putting things. Maybe now I will buy a wraptor if this takes off. Should I finance that?
??
Jeff
Jeff
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
Since you don't want our advice, can I give you my opinion? 50% of all marriages end in divorce.
One thing to watch for, and I saw it happen several times when my boss took on partners over the years, is that as time goes by one partner tends to do more driving around and talking and "business stuff" while the other partner does actual work. My boss was the work guy and his "partners" always had reasons to go pick something up or go see someone or had to dress in non-work clothes for business talk and what have you.
And as the money starts to come in, the one who works less tends to work even less and "needs" to spend more time driving around and "taking care of things".
Good luck and watch out.
richard t
ArboristSite Operative
I guess I'm in the same boat as a few on here year 3 plenty of equiptment time to ---- or get off the pot. Told my job I'm going part time they are so busy they had to work with me show up when ever u can. Waiting for chip truck to get back from getting hoist mounted so chipping into dump trailer. My first day doing a removal nice weather not on the weekend was absolutely incredible. Last year I worked 4.5 months without a day off it was hard on my family life. I don't think I could have a partner it can work in businesses that are all numbers, man, equiptment hrs. One of u is a high dollar groundsman.
