Hinge Thickness Question

[clarksvilleal]

I just finished cutting up most of a storm-felled pine that was about 32" diameter at the base, uprooted but with the trunk still entirely intact. After cutting off all of the top branches and trunk down to about 12' from the base, the huge root mass pulled the remaining trunk section back up to an almost upright position - though there is a lean of perhaps 10 - 15 degrees.

So now I have to cut the remaining length of trunk down. The trunk appears to be basically healthy, although there is a section toward the bottom front (front being the side the tree is leaning toward) that is hollowed out maybe 6" deep and 10" wide from the base to about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I was planning to use an open-face notch on the side of the lean - which is also where the hollowed out section is -- and a plunge cut to begin the back cut, which will have to be made in a rotational fashion since I have to use a saw with a 20" bar and chain to fell this 32" sucker. I'm also planning to insert a couple of wedges as I make the rotating back cut.

Normally I would use a 3" hinge for a standing tree with a 30" diameter trunk. But I'm wondering, with this tree now only 12' tall or so, should I make the hinge narrower, since there is less weight/torque at the top of the tree to begin pulling it down. I'd rather not have to get back up against the tree to trim the hinge narrower once the back cut is complete. Or, given that it is leaning fairly strongly, would that actually dictate a wider hinge? There is still a heck of a lot of weight in the remaining trunk, and I don't want to have too small a hinge that could possibly cause loss of control as the trunk falls. Bottom line is that I'm trying to plan this carefully, even though on the surface it looks like a fairly simple fell; I sure don't want a couple thousand pounds of trunk to jump the stump and roll over on me as it falls. And complicating matters is the fact that my escape route is limited by a ditch and a fence a couple of feet behind the tree, so I will have to move to one side or the other as the tree starts to fall.

Any sage advice from you pros would be most welcome.

 

[lfnh]

couple of test bores would tell a lot about insides.

might try looking up coo's bay cut with or without full humboldt.
could be just the thing for shorter bar and rotten face.

just some ideas

 

[BC WetCoast]

Given that it is only 12' tall, you will need a smaller hinge or you'll never pull it over as you wouldn't be able to break the hinge. I would tie a rope to the top. Cut a larger notch than you normally would, 1/2 the tree, make a backcut leaving about 1" of hinge and a couple of wedges. It is unlikely the peg will move. Then get out of the way and pull it with the rope.

 

[clarksvilleal]

Just went out and measured the height - it's actually 13' tall. And the angle of lean is probably more like 20 degrees. The tree is not on my property, and I hadn't seen it in a couple of days, so I forgot how pronounced the lean was.

Below are some photos so you can see better what I've got. I'm thinking I will take BC's advice with a bigger, deeper notch and narrower hinge - maybe 1-1/2" or 2" as a compromise; a one inch doesn't seem like enough of a hinge to me to control the fall well. I'm also leaning toward using a plunge cut from both sides from the back of the hinge to a point that will leave a strap about 3" or 4" thick at the back of the tree. Then finish by cutting off the strap from the back, move away and have my friend start pulling it down with the pickup if it doesn't fall by itself. However given the amount of lean I think it just may fall by itself without any help as long as I don't leave the hinge too thick.

 

[Ed Crawford]

One inch is plenty.

 

[ropensaddle]

Just went out and measured the height - it's actually 13' tall. And the angle of lean is probably more like 20 degrees. The tree is not on my property, and I hadn't seen it in a couple of days, so I forgot how pronounced the lean was.

Below are some photos so you can see better what I've got. I'm thinking I will take BC's advice with a bigger, deeper notch and narrower hinge - maybe 1-1/2" or 2" as a compromise; a one inch doesn't seem like enough of a hinge to me to control the fall well. I'm also leaning toward using a plunge cut from both sides from the back of the hinge to a point that will leave a strap about 3" or 4" thick at the back of the tree. Then finish by cutting off the strap from the back, move away and have my friend start pulling it down with the pickup if it doesn't fall by itself. However given the amount of lean I think it just may fall by itself without any help as long as I don't leave the hinge too thick.

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One inch will be fine even if it falls before you pull, just back up. Look after making your hinge to see if the wood in the notch is sound especially on the off side. If its sound she wont twist unless you cut it loose the hinge will drop it right where its notched.

 

[clarksvilleal]

One inch is plenty.

OK, Ed. I will assume you and BC -- and RopenSaddle, who also just chimed in -- have a lot more experience than me. An inch it will be, assuming I can control it that well. With a hinge that thin it would be easy to cut right through it toward the center of the trunk with the plunge cut.

 

[ropensaddle]

OK, Ed. I will assume you and BC -- and RopenSaddle, who just chimed in -- have a lot more experience than me. An inch it will be, assuming I can control it that well. With a hinge that thin it would be easy to cut right through it toward the center of the trunk with the plunge cut.

I just realized this is the home owner thread ok yes not having a long enough bar can be challenging. On solid trees its a tad easier to mitigate by cutting on the off side first then walking the bar around but this trunk does appear to have a few issues. That line going up the trunk is an area of concern as possible chair could happen there

 

[ropensaddle]

I just realized this is the home owner thread ok yes not having a long enough bar can be challenging. On solid trees its a tad easier to mitigate by cutting on the off side first then walking the bar around but this trunk does appear to have a few issues. That line going up the trunk is an area of concern as possible chair could happen there

Having said that and assuming the intended drop is right where it leans, I would make my notch and start the back cut on the side its got that defect do you best to leave some hingewood there and then finish the drop on the other side. You should not need pull really and pull could cause more harm than good causing a barberchair situation. If you feel safer pulling it fine but then ratchet binding that spar to prevent chair when pulling it over may give you a better result.

 

[ropensaddle]

Notching half is ok but avoid ending the notch any where near that line going up that one side stop short of it a good 4 inches minimum!

 

[clarksvilleal]

Notching half is ok but avoid ending the notch any where near that line going up that one side stop short of it a good 4 inches minimum!

Ropensaddle -- The hollow area is right in front, smack in the middle of the leaning side, which is where I intended to cut the notch, since that is the direction I want it to fall. My assumption based on the 100% soundness of the trunk sections I had already cut off above this 13' section, is that the hollow area in the front was contained and did not penetrate further back into the center of the trunk. So I was going to cut the notch a couple of feet above the base of the tree right smack into the hollow area. Once I do that, of course, it will become obvious whether there is any rot behind it, but I really doubt that will be the case.

OK, goin' to bed now so I'll check the responses in the morning.

 

[ropensaddle]

Ropensaddle -- The hollow area is right in front, smack in the middle of the leaning side, which is where I intended to cut the notch, since that is the direction I want it to fall. My assumption based on the 100% soundness of the trunk sections I had already cut off above this 13' section, is that the hollow area in the front was contained and did not penetrate further back into the center of the trunk. So I was going to cut the notch a couple of feet above the base of the tree right smack into the hollow area. Once I do that, of course, it will become obvious whether there is any rot behind it, but I really doubt that will be the case.

OK, goin' to bed now so I'll check the responses in the morning.

Rot is one thing but in your third picture it appears the tree has a wound going up the side possibly lightning streak or frost crack they can be problematic. Every spar has its own challenges this spar had many being a 100' red oak leaning 15 degrees at the house! Thankfully a home owner did not attempt it.

 

[clarksvilleal]

Rot is one thing but in your third picture it appears the tree has a wound going up the side possibly lightning streak or frost crack they can be problematic. Every spar has its own challenges this spar had many being a 100' red oak leaning 15 degrees at the house! Thankfully a home owner did not attempt it.

OK, now I understand what you are talking about. I wasn't aware that the depressed "line" going up the side of the tree might be a defect to be concerned about. As I said the trunk section above the spar was sound and solid, with no visible defect, after I cut it off of the spar. I'll take that under advisement












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[northmanlogging]

I just finished cutting up most of a storm-felled pine that was about 32" diameter at the base, uprooted but with the trunk still entirely intact. After cutting off all of the top branches and trunk down to about 12' from the base, the huge root mass pulled the remaining trunk section back up to an almost upright position - though there is a lean of perhaps 10 - 15 degrees.

So now I have to cut the remaining length of trunk down. The trunk appears to be basically healthy, although there is a section toward the bottom front (front being the side the tree is leaning toward) that is hollowed out maybe 6" deep and 10" wide from the base to about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I was planning to use an open-face notch on the side of the lean - which is also where the hollowed out section is -- and a plunge cut to begin the back cut, which will have to be made in a rotational fashion since I have to use a saw with a 20" bar and chain to fell this 32" sucker. I'm also planning to insert a couple of wedges as I make the rotating back cut.

Normally I would use a 3" hinge for a standing tree with a 30" diameter trunk. But I'm wondering, with this tree now only 12' tall or so, should I make the hinge narrower, since there is less weight/torque at the top of the tree to begin pulling it down. I'd rather not have to get back up against the tree to trim the hinge narrower once the back cut is complete. Or, given that it is leaning fairly strongly, would that actually dictate a wider hinge? There is still a heck of a lot of weight in the remaining trunk, and I don't want to have too small a hinge that could possibly cause loss of control as the trunk falls. Bottom line is that I'm trying to plan this carefully, even though on the surface it looks like a fairly simple fell; I sure don't want a couple thousand pounds of trunk to jump the stump and roll over on me as it falls. And complicating matters is the fact that my escape route is limited by a ditch and a fence a couple of feet behind the tree, so I will have to move to one side or the other as the tree starts to fall.

Any sage advice from you pros would be most welcome.

Put a steep and clean face in it with the lean, since I imagine the lean is the direction it fell originally, then torch if off, stobs don't need much holding wood, yer falling with the lean, so directional control is a moot point.

Next time cut the stump off first, more then likely the root ball will stand back up, if yer scared of it, leave a couple feet as a kickstand and call it good, cutting from the top back will almost always cause the last 10-20' to stand up like that, sometimes taking the cutter with it.

 

[northmanlogging]

also, a humboldt face, upside down... making a smiley face rather then a frown, will help prevent it from back slipping. Though I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, if you stay an inch or so high on the back cut.

 

[ropensaddle]

Stem cracks can cause problems, lightning streaks unless it split the tree rarely cause any but your going to be ok on this trunk. I just get paranoid when helping a homeowner through internet pictures and not knowing their ability.

 

[clarksvilleal]

The Humboldt sounds like a good way to go for this one. I hadn't heard of that before - just the conventional and open-face notches. It may be a couple of days before I get to this, but I'll post pics again after I'm done.

Ropensaddle - Many thanks for your obvious concern about my safety. Though far from expert, I have felled a dozen or so fairly large trees -- up to 85' tall and 26" diameter, mostly hardwoods like poplar, maple and cherry -- on my own property, and a few on other folks' property. Before my first of these larger fellings I did a fair amount of online research, including reading threads on this site and watching videos, and I bought, read and re-read (several times) Jeff Jepson's book "To Fell a Tree". It covers most of the basics for a newbie like me, and kept me from making any big mistakes. But I'm always cautious, especially in new situations, including ones like this that seem easy but could pose hidden hazards for those of us without a lot of felling experience.

 

[ropensaddle]

also, a humboldt face, upside down... making a smiley face rather then a frown, will help prevent it from back slipping. Though I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, if you stay an inch or so high on the back cut.

You know I use the humboldt in my work but not for the felling. I use it when I bombing the top out of a big ole pine or really any tree as it will slide off the spar better aloft. I had one years ago using a conventional hit some limbs of another tree and caused it to roll my way. I was young and cock strong and was able to move fast enough to avoid it but after that i started using the humboldt.

 

[BC WetCoast]

I had to remove an Atlas cedar today. Left about a 20' stub and let my groundie fall it. I was pulling the rope and he ended up with a 1/4-1/2" hinge and I still had to pull like crazy to get it to drop. Went straight where it was aimed.

A tree that short, with a lean like that, being felled to the lean isn't going to move around. Don't overthink it.

 

[ropensaddle]

I had to remove an Atlas cedar today. Left about a 20' stub and let my groundie fall it. I was pulling the rope and he ended up with a 1/4-1/2" hinge and I still had to pull like crazy to get it to drop. Went straight where it was aimed.

A tree that short, with a lean like that, being felled to the lean isn't going to move around. Don't overthink it.

Those atlas look pretty cool