hired my first Guatamalans yesterday

[Art Szabo]

Treeinnovator

I had the distinct privelege and honor to be the supervisor on a totallly immigrant crew (16 men) in Toronto back in 1990. It is an experience I will never forget. I had two brothers from Russia, Peter and Ivan, Peter could speak about twenty words in English and Ivan NONE! I had guys from Nigeria, Guam, Trinidad, India, Suadi Arabia and I forget the rest. Almost all communication was from gestures and drawings made on the spot. I have never seen men so dedicated and hard working in my life. I made a real crew out of them. I respected them all and treated them with a dignity they had never known. We worked together for six months. They spray painted grafitti on the walls of a building saying "God bless Mr. Art" and "We love Mr. Art". I - we nearly wept the day we parted, we hugged and shook hands and exchanged well wishes and all went our separate ways. I have often wondered how they all are and still get the pictures out and reminisce. We were a team.
Art

 

[nytreeman]

I've never personally hired any but I have worked with LEGAL immigrants in the past,several russians,bosnians,poles and some mexicans,and they are like anyone else some are better than others but they come from parts of the world where thay might not have anything thats why there here,to work.So most do try to impress because they need the money to support their families.But then that money goes to other countries and thats a whole other issue.
The one thing I do agree with TI is the cel phone thing,that does p!ss me off when I'm looking for my groundy and hes on the cel phone sitting in the truck arguing with the wife!

 

[tree md]

I don't usually feed trolls but figured I would put in my 02 here.

One of the guys I worked for in the past hired non-English speaking help and ended up paying for it with his life. They had the cable stretched out on the boom truck and the guy was screaming at them to not take the choker off of the log. They thought he was yelling at them to hurry up and went ahead and took it off allowing the cable to swing back into a power line Killing my old boss and his top hand. All because he couldn't communicate with his help.

 

[ddhlakebound]

You were totally out of line for calling a total stranger an "ignorant, uneducated fool" simply because he doesn't see you in Boston and Goldsboro from where he is.

Art

Art, are you not in favor of calling a spade a spade? Treeminator/Treeinnovator is quite literally an ignorant, uneducated fool. Spend a few minutes reading his posts under his current screenname, and his old banned one.

He brings nothing to this forum but boasts, lies, and controversy. His only value here is to play the village idiot.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Two sides to every story.....

Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman".

The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings.

If you want to be successful as an employer, you MUST lead by example. You MUST reward your people fairly for the effort they provide, and the profit they enable you to earn. You MUST treat each employee with respect and dignity. You MUST be able to motivate yourself to find and properly train people to be who and what you need. You MUST be willing to fire the "turds", because even the guy who is near perfect in hiring will still find some turds. And you MUST have the intelligence to learn from your mistakes, and develop and refine the process which takes a new hire from "newb" to "my best guy".

Sure, there are lots of horrible employees out there. There are lots of great ones too. Bad parenting, bad companies, and bad bosses all have their part in creating bad employees. A good leader can overcome these hardships and create a crew of competent hard workers. By being a leader instead of a boss, and by leading by example.

I spent four years working for the son of a man who built the company. The old man had worked his butt off to build a successful, multi unit company. The son had this company handed to him on a silver platter, and I watched as the son grew into his new position as the big man. Even though his father made him start at the bottom, doing grunt work and learning how to operate every phase of the company, he still evolved very quickly into a greedy, powerloving, tyrant of a boss. He shed the leader robe entirely. Up to this point, I had been a model employee, to the tune of "best numbers the company has ever seen." My units annual sales was just over a million/yr when I started. It was nearly 1.3 million 3 yrs later, while the other units were flat or slower growing. I was producing more, and taking a higher percentage to the bottom line. I was paid, at the most, 38k, with my raises stagnating, and my "boss" learning new tricks to make more money by cutting the quality of the product and service. So what happened?

I became a horrible employee, and I was in charge of 30+ people. I'd show up late on purpose. I'd leave early. I'd assign assistants jobs I'd normally do, and then not check on their progress or completion. My boss and I fought each other through a downward spiral which ended with me being fired. Thank god....I'd worked hard to make him fire me, and I'd almost given up the week before and quit. Sure, I cut off my own nose to spite my face. I'd worked my butt off to help improve on a good operation, and my efforts were not shown any rewards or respect. So why should I continue to put as much profit as possible in my "bosses" pocket?

Want good employees? Then you can't be a greedy boss, you've got to be a respectful and respectable leader.

 

[MNTAINGAL23]

Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman".

The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings.

If you want to be successful as an employer, you MUST lead by example. You MUST reward your people fairly for the effort they provide, and the profit they enable you to earn. You MUST treat each employee with respect and dignity. You MUST be able to motivate yourself to find and properly train people to be who and what you need. You MUST be willing to fire the "turds", because even the guy who is near perfect in hiring will still find some turds. And you MUST have the intelligence to learn from your mistakes, and develop and refine the process which takes a new hire from "newb" to "my best guy".

Sure, there are lots of horrible employees out there. There are lots of great ones too. Bad parenting, bad companies, and bad bosses all have their part in creating bad employees. A good leader can overcome these hardships and create a crew of competent hard workers. By being a leader instead of a boss, and by leading by example.

I spent four years working for the son of a man who built the company. The old man had worked his butt off to build a successful, multi unit company. The son had this company handed to him on a silver platter, and I watched as the son grew into his new position as the big man. Even though his father made him start at the bottom, doing grunt work and learning how to operate every phase of the company, he still evolved very quickly into a greedy, powerloving, tyrant of a boss. He shed the leader robe entirely. Up to this point, I had been a model employee, to the tune of "best numbers the company has ever seen." My units annual sales was just over a million/yr when I started. It was nearly 1.3 million 3 yrs later, while the other units were flat or slower growing. I was producing more, and taking a higher percentage to the bottom line. I was paid, at the most, 38k, with my raises stagnating, and my "boss" learning new tricks to make more money by cutting the quality of the product and service. So what happened?

I became a horrible employee, and I was in charge of 30+ people. I'd show up late on purpose. I'd leave early. I'd assign assistants jobs I'd normally do, and then not check on their progress or completion. My boss and I fought each other through a downward spiral which ended with me being fired. Thank god....I'd worked hard to make him fire me, and I'd almost given up the week before and quit. Sure, I cut off my own nose to spite my face. I'd worked my butt off to help improve on a good operation, and my efforts were not shown any rewards or respect. So why should I continue to put as much profit as possible in my "bosses" pocket?

Want good employees? Then you can't be a greedy boss, you've got to be a respectful and respectable leader.

You hit the nail right on the head. People ususally hire people like themselves. Maybe subconcously but it does happen. I have seen it many times.

 

[Art Szabo]

ddhlakebound

WOW! You hit the nail dead on the head! It is a fine balance. It takes work to get it there and dedication to keep it there. I wish you great success Sir.
Art

 

[Treeinnovator]

Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman".

The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings.

If you want to be successful as an employer, you MUST lead by example. You MUST reward your people fairly for the effort they provide, and the profit they enable you to earn. You MUST treat each employee with respect and dignity. You MUST be able to motivate yourself to find and properly train people to be who and what you need. You MUST be willing to fire the "turds", because even the guy who is near perfect in hiring will still find some turds. And you MUST have the intelligence to learn from your mistakes, and develop and refine the process which takes a new hire from "newb" to "my best guy".

Sure, there are lots of horrible employees out there. There are lots of great ones too. Bad parenting, bad companies, and bad bosses all have their part in creating bad employees. A good leader can overcome these hardships and create a crew of competent hard workers. By being a leader instead of a boss, and by leading by example.

I spent four years working for the son of a man who built the company. The old man had worked his butt off to build a successful, multi unit company. The son had this company handed to him on a silver platter, and I watched as the son grew into his new position as the big man. Even though his father made him start at the bottom, doing grunt work and learning how to operate every phase of the company, he still evolved very quickly into a greedy, powerloving, tyrant of a boss. He shed the leader robe entirely. Up to this point, I had been a model employee, to the tune of "best numbers the company has ever seen." My units annual sales was just over a million/yr when I started. It was nearly 1.3 million 3 yrs later, while the other units were flat or slower growing. I was producing more, and taking a higher percentage to the bottom line. I was paid, at the most, 38k, with my raises stagnating, and my "boss" learning new tricks to make more money by cutting the quality of the product and service. So what happened?

I became a horrible employee, and I was in charge of 30+ people. I'd show up late on purpose. I'd leave early. I'd assign assistants jobs I'd normally do, and then not check on their progress or completion. My boss and I fought each other through a downward spiral which ended with me being fired. Thank god....I'd worked hard to make him fire me, and I'd almost given up the week before and quit. Sure, I cut off my own nose to spite my face. I'd worked my butt off to help improve on a good operation, and my efforts were not shown any rewards or respect. So why should I continue to put as much profit as possible in my "bosses" pocket?

Want good employees? Then you can't be a greedy boss, you've got to be a respectful and respectable leader.

this all sounds fine and dandy and makes for a great page out of some manager's consulting 101 guide book. but let's face it ...today's kids suck at work. i'd agree if it were a few instances here and there. but it's not and you all know what i'm talking about. goto work tomorrow and count how many times your co-workers "must" answer their cell phone during work. 20 years ago there was no such thing. i've tried many forms of incentives and compensation. i've tried contracting, hourly, salary. it doesn't matter when dealing with 20 something white workers. they are freakin' a lazy generation as a whole.

just this week one of my workers demanded to get off early in the middle of a huge removal for personal reasons. later i found out he has a new girlfriend and she get's off her job at 2pm every day and he wants to go see her. WTF?????? you goto work and save your girlfriend crap til after 5pm.

another one says he can't work in the extreme heat and can't work when it's raining... i said, "welcome to Florida, sounds like you need a desk job".

another guy said he wasn't going to top a tree unless he got "a cut" on top of his agreed hourly rate. who the F#$% is he to try and tell me what i'm going to do after he already agreed. this isn't a profit sharing business. I'm already paying him what he wanted, now he tries to hustle for more just because he sees how much the customer is paying me. i told him, "you want 25% of this removal, then buy 25% of my business."

and everyday they take off an hour lunch and then it takes them another hour to get back to work. i swear they just sit there and look at the tree and complain how their stomachs are full and feeling lathargic.

another one: "but you make $1500 a day and finding tree work is so easy, why you gotta be so greedy". that one burns me up. you little punk, i built up a strong client base over many years and invested tons of money into my equipment. it's called a reward paying off. something that whole generation doesn't grasp. they think a "reward paying off" is when they turn 26 and their trust fund becomes available.

all this has NOTHING to do with the leadership abilities of the boss. i hear this crap from these white guys whether they are new or old employees. it's how they are raised. it's a whole socio-generation flaw we're dealing with.

AND ALL THE WHILE, IMMIGRANTS DON'T DO ANY OF THESE THINGS. they show up, get the job done, and go home with money earned. i've never had to tell them to get back to work or hang up the cell phone. they take 1/2 lunches and it's right back to work at the same speed. i swear the only complaint i ever got from the immigrants was that i didn't have more work for them. they are money motivated and would work 18 hrs a day 6 days a week if you let them.

 

[Treeinnovator]

forgot one more.
we're all choppin and droppin this removal right. chipper guy is feeding the chipper and impatiently waiting for more and then mr. white guy 24yr old groundie's phone rings. now he knows i get pissed about the phone thing. so what does he do? he uses one hand to drag brush to the chipper and one hand to hold the cell phone while he talks for the next 15 minutes. he literally carries one small branch at a time to the chipper. WTF?
but he actually think it's ok to do this and in his head he honestly believes he's working hard because he never took a break to answer the call. burns me up everytime.

 

[squad143]

"I had the distinct privelege and honor to be the supervisor on a totallly immigrant crew (16 men) in Toronto back in 1990."

With you as supervisor I guess it was a TOTALLY Immigrant crew. (lol). I hope you were working up here legally.

Sounds like you had a good time in the land of the beaver.

 

[jrparbor04]

sounds to me that i would hate to work for a crap boss like yourself :notrolls2:

 

[Treeinnovator]

sounds to me that i would hate to work for a crap boss like yourself :notrolls2:

if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.

 

[ShoerFast]

if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.

You wouldn't know what to do with a real employee!

 

[jrparbor04]

if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.

buddy,,,you couldnt keep up with me,,,and you couldnt pay me enough to be in your presence in the tree care industry,,,,


I.S.A Certified Arborist

 

[l2edneck]

never ceases to amaze me the level of morons produced everyday,TI ive had bosses like you in yer new boots every week and yer shiny truck.Every night at the strip club trying to buy a life gimmie a fn break......LLLLLoser.

I am now stupider fer having opened this thread as are you all besides TI because it a shame the ignorant never see it.

 

[Treeinnovator]

never ceases to amaze me the level of morons produced everyday,TI ive had bosses like you in yer new boots every week and yer shiny truck..

is that the impression you get? that i have shiny boots because i don't lift a finger?

i work in the trenches along with everyone. i drag brush, walk the limbs, and spit sawdust chunks everyday. the boots i where are usually filthy, wet, and full of sawdust.

if you come to our jobsite, i'm easy to find. jus look for the guy with the sweat soaked shirt who's not on the phone.

 

[B-Edwards]

I'm ISA certified , I have to say I agree with most of the things TI has said. Just today i was going to buy another pair of Danner boots and I'll be dam-ed this pair is made in China. Wonder why????? Maybe it's different where most of you are but around here I'd swear most of the same guys that work for Ti work here also. I question myself alot making sure I am being fare to my employees and I am. We are living in the age of entitlement ,no-one wants to pay their dues and climb a ladder. When it's all gone to China and people cant afford tree care we will see where the cream is. I appreciate an honest worker and compensate them the way they should be. I do agree with Ti in that if you are against most of what he's said then maybe ,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Art Szabo]

squad143

Yes I was legal and double yes I had an awesome time in the land of the Beaver. I was and am very impressed with the Canadian people. They are without a doubt the friendliest people you would ever want to meet. Toronto is a huge huge city to a country boy like me, but I never felt like I was in a big city. It was more like a sprawling small town that never seemed to end. Never did figure out how to find my way around very good. I lived in Mississauga in an unfinished condo. There were 31 of us altogether. We were hired to remove the machinery from Arrowhead Metals and load it on trucks and rail cars for shipment elsewhere.
I guess it never dawned me till now that I too was an immigrant. Everybody just treated me so good and I felt so at home that it wasn't like I had left my native country. I went to the bars alot and as soon as they figured out that I was from the States I couldn't spend any money. They would crowd around me each insisting I try his brand of Canadian beer. They told me that I had never had real beer before -- they were right. It was all good - real good. I was up there for eight months and there was not an unpleasant moment in the entire experience.
Art

 

[ropensaddle]

if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.

First I could work you in the dirt boy ! Second is, Americans are not lazy
but they are not motivated by competing with a third world labor rates.
Sure some are mommas boys and fat and lazy but they have them else where.
I wonder what you are gonna do when you foreign labor force decides
to cut the middle man out ,as it will and does happen all the time.
Want to compete with bidding half of what you are now just to get
a job or two a week? That has already happened here and people
like you are turning business to **** are you illegal?

 

[a_lopa]

Can you organise some Guatamalans to come to Australia for a "holiday"??