Home made friction saver

[lumberjack333]

Sorry no pics of it in use... Like i said, only use it on removals, spur up to tip, place friction saver, rappel down and begin limbing. Initially I tried installing and removing from ground, it worked a few times but then like you say... it got stuck in a tight crotch of a Sugar Maple. Needless to say that was the last time I ever used it in that manner. Simple fixed length steel or aluminum ring models work much better in that application.

 

[treemandan]

Sorry no pics of it in use... Like i said, only use it on removals, spur up to tip, place friction saver, rappel down and begin limbing. Initially I tried installing and removing from ground, it worked a few times but then like you say... it got stuck in a tight crotch of a Sugar Maple. Needless to say that was the last time I ever used it in that manner. Simple fixed length steel or aluminum ring models work much better in that application.

I wonder if I am being a bad arborist by not using a friction saver. But that is what was confusing me. These really aren't friction savers, they are false crotches or alternate TIP's right?

Just go out and wrap it around a tree trunk and snap pic so I can see how you have it set up Ok?

 

[davej]

I would use tree climbing rope ( 16 strand) for ease of knots and durability.

Seems like you could leave the prusik out and just re-tie a fig-8-on-a-bight as needed.

 

[lumberjack333]

Well i'm not placing it around the stem, I use it in the crotch that I would tie in at if I didn't have a friction reducing device with me....

Put it this way I don't use it to create a tie in point where none exists, but to reduce the amount of friction that I would normally have to deal with working out a natural crotch... having that pulley in there makes all of the difference when returning from a long limb walk, I can pull the tail of my rope below my micropulley and hitch, and easily lift my weight and change my positioning while keeping one hand free to hang on if I need to. No matter how it is employed, it reduces friction to make movement easier, to some extenet anything from the leather tubed cambium savers, to an adjustable style device like the ones discussed in this thread are all "friction savers" they just work in different ways. Some of them can also be used as a false crotch though, should the need arise.

 

[davej]

I wonder if I am being a bad arborist by not using a friction saver.

Well, how many rope burns do you leave behind on live trees?

 

[lumberjack333]

This is what i would consider a false crotch, I used a sling and biner here to create a tip where none existed... anymore hehe.

 

[treemandan]

Well i'm not placing it around the stem, I use it in the crotch that I would tie in at if I didn't have a friction reducing device with me....

Put it this way I don't use it to create a tie in point where none exists, but to reduce the amount of friction that I would normally have to deal with working out a natural crotch... having that pulley in there makes all of the difference when returning from a long limb walk, I can pull the tail of my rope below my micropulley and hitch, and easily lift my weight and change my positioning while keeping one hand free to hang on if I need to. No matter how it is employed, it reduces friction to make movement easier, to some extenet anything from the leather tubed cambium savers, to an adjustable style device like the ones discussed in this thread are all "friction savers" they just work in different ways. Some of them can also be used as a false crotch though, should the need arise.

Ok, so it is to help with friction.

 

[treemandan]

Well, how many rope burns do you leave behind on live trees?

Not as many as you would think. I wouldn't exactly call them burns either. And its nothing more than what nature does. Besides on big wide spread ones I use multiple TIPS so think about that.

 

[Tree Pig]

Seems like you could leave the prusik out and just re-tie a fig-8-on-a-bight as needed.

While working in a tree sometimes you have to move down and back up, and 8 doesnt allow to do that.

 

[Tree Pig]

This is what i would consider a false crotch, I used a sling and biner here to create a tip where none existed... anymore hehe.

ever think about using two biners or adding a micro to increase the bend radius and lesson the stress on the rope.

 

[lumberjack333]

Yeah I would use two biners there or one of my 2" rescue pulleys, but I was using multiple slings and biners to advance my tip so I could get up to that tear you see in the picture. I wasn't planning on being tied into that for any major length of time, If I was two biners or a pulley for sure.

Believe it or not, the friction was still very low even with a tight radius like that, the little bit of movement I did was very smooth.

 

[davej]

While working in a tree sometimes you have to move down and back up, and an 8 (knot) doesnt allow to do that.

Well, a prusik is great as long as I'm setting it up with my own hands, but if I'm setting a friction saver from the ground then I'd want something else. That is where I think this is getting a little confusing.

 

[Treecutr]

What I'm going to try first is using about 6' of 1/2" 16 strand Hi Vee and tie each ring to an end with a fishermans. Any thoughts?

 

[davej]

What I'm going to try first is using about 6' of 1/2" 16 strand Hi Vee and tie each ring to an end with a fishermans. Any thoughts?

The only thought I would have goes back to the question of stiffness which was mentioned earlier in this thread. In order to get the FS into position and to retrieve it (from the ground) you might need to stiffen the ends of the rope or webbing in some manner to make it less likely to get stuck.

 

[Treecutr]

The only thought I would have goes back to the question of stiffness which was mentioned earlier in this thread. In order to get the FS into position and to retrieve it (from the ground) you might need to stiffen the ends of the rope or webbing in some manner to make it less likely to get stuck.

possibly. I'll give it a shot, and let everyone know

 

[md_tree_dood]

I have to ask. Why are people so insistent on making stuff for themselves at home? Port-a-wraps, friction savers. This stuff can be life or death, spend the extra few bucks, buy stuff that has been quality tested and approved for industry standards.

 

[davej]

I have to ask. Why are people so insistent on making stuff for themselves at home? Port-a-wraps, friction savers. This stuff can be life or death, spend the extra few bucks, buy stuff that has been quality tested and approved for industry standards.

If you have poor judgment you'll probably kill yourself one way or another and probably while out driving. If you have good judgment then you ought to be able to tell if the thing you made is safe or not and test it if needed.

 

[Treecutr]

Well first I'll say I wont even think of using anything I don't feel 100% comfortable with. Then theres this situation ( not looking for sympothy, just some sense of understanding )

Came home from Iraq in June 2008, had to start the tree businesss all over, as I was really small as it was, only doing stuff on a couple weekends a month with 1 or 2 other guys. Problem was I didn't have a job when I got back. went to school full time for a year for Electrician. good amount of my gear was stolen while I was gone, and really dont have the money to replace it all at once. Doing the best I can. So if I can find a way to save some cash, AND still be safe, then I will untill eveything gets up and going good again. Unfortunatley on August 15, 2010, I will be heading to Afghanistan. So knowing all that. I don't want to dump a lot of money into the business, mostly because what if I do, and don't come back in one piece or at all. I'd rather get back healthy, and be able to do tree work. Then I'll spend on all the nice things, like that ART rope guide, sure looks nice. Most folks don't have to contend with that scenario, I do. Unfortunatley I chose the infantry for my military career, so they give me a rifle, sniper rifle, and a ton of ammo, and go do my job.

Again, not mad or offened at any comments, just thought I'd share my scenario. I have also tried several times to get in with a more established local company with no success. Did a little brush dragging here and there a few years ago. So if anyone near Western Ma needs a guy here and there on weeknds, I'm not above being a ground guy again.

 

[md_tree_dood]

In the process of trying to save a buck, you may never make it to Afghanistan. If you don't have the money for a friction saver, just natural crotch, it HAS to be safer than making one.

 

[lumberjack333]

In the process of trying to save a buck, you may never make it to Afghanistan. If you don't have the money for a friction saver, just natural crotch, it HAS to be safer than making one.

I really don't see the difference with tying a couple double fishermans to some metal rings on a short piece of rope, or tying your termination knot and friction hitch at your harness... either way the knots will hold as long as they're tied properly. YES there may now be four knots in the system that should be inspected and checked instead of two, but we're supposed to be professionals that are capable of judging when a piece of life supporting gear is good and when it needs to be retied/replaced.

Everything in this industry is as safe as we make it, that stuff that comes off an assembly line isn't fool proof. Errors can happen there too, maybe that ol' trusted piece of manufactured gear is what fails one day, where a short piece of rope with a couple knots wouldn't have...