Hosing The customer

[tree md]

The tree is behind a rental unit I am buying, I called a pro because It is a willow and don't want the wood, tree is about 32" diameter at growing level, I would say the entire thing would be not quite on full size dump if chunked. Two guys in and out in 2-3 hours including raking/grinding and coffee. I was thinking $700-800.

From your description It sounds like you are close to the mark. Just call someone else and work it out. Sounds like this yo yo is trying to take you to the cleaners.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Hold on now, this work site? How many obstacles does he have to deal with, access?
Power lines, gravel. How far the drag, how far the hump, equipment accessible?
signs of Metal in the stump? How close to the building, condition of 30' tree. In other words, until we see the site, how do we know. Most home owners just look at the tree, not anything else. Hard access, long hauls, unmovable targets all that makes a dif too! I have done several trees that if they where in a front yard they would be 800, in a back yard with many issues 2000. There are many different things that effect price.
Post some pics, then we can say.
I always get calls from people who want a price over the phone, NO!
Gotta look at them, as we all do.

 

[RVALUE]

Could he just be a good judge of character? :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[RVALUE]

Or possibly he thought he was on the last trees I did. Should have been 1750 or more, and I charged $ 700.

:help:

 

[TreeClimber57]

So now you need to be licensed and certified to cut down a willow tree??

I would be equally concerned about some nancy boy, bookworm type wannabe getting his ass killed on my property.. just sayin.

I don't know about licensing, that is by jurisdiction and more local laws than need. But would suggest they need to be insured with liability insurance and workers comp at least.

 

[Arbor Vision]

So now you need to be licensed and certified to cut dow n a willow tree??

I would be equally concerned about some nancy boy, bookworm type wannabe getting his ass killed on my property.. just sayin.

I don't know about your state or the op state but where I live you have to be a licensed tree expert (lte)to perform almost any aspect of tree work.........here's the kicker, any Tom, #### or Harry can go, and get insurance to do tree work, but if your not a licensed tree expert and you file a claim guess what? That's the insurance company's ticket out of paying up.

 

[Walt41]

Did you do the tree yourself? ......or get other quotes? Is the job done?

I'm curious as to how you know how many men it wold take, how long it would take them to grind the stump and it's cost and their cost to get rid of the debris?

If I didn't know better I'd think you are yanking our............... chains.

Any photos?

I'll shoot a photo today when I go out later, it really is easy in-out and not a big tree, might not be till tomorrow because the area is crawling with cops, some 21y/o kid got hit by a car there and they are out with cameras and measuring tapes, trying to determine what happened.

 

[sgreanbeans]

....and if it's not asking to much a shot of the quote would be nice, too.

Good one!


I didnt catch that the stump grinding with clean up was included, 7-800, hmmmmmm

 

[TreeClimber57]

a licensed tree expert

So what qualifies as a "tree expert".

There are some guys been in business for a dozen years, and frankly know a very narrow part of tree care.

Others who have been in business lesser time, may know more (at least the theory).

How do they judge this? Time in business.. certification.. what is used? Certification is good.. but not necessarily the end all.. there are a lot of companies who do only dangerous removals and stump removals.. and would not necessarily need to be certified as an arborist. Just curious how they do this.

 

[outonalimbts]

Too many unknowns to actually submit an opinion....

Hold on now, this work site? How many obstacles does he have to deal with, access?
Power lines, gravel. How far the drag, how far the hump, equipment accessible?
signs of Metal in the stump? How close to the building, condition of 30' tree. In other words, until we see the site, how do we know. Most home owners just look at the tree, not anything else. Hard access, long hauls, unmovable targets all that makes a dif too! I have done several trees that if they where in a front yard they would be 800, in a back yard with many issues 2000. There are many different things that effect price.
Post some pics, then we can say.
I always get calls from people who want a price over the phone, NO!
Gotta look at them, as we all do.

The problem with this situation is that we all need to see it to determine the actual cost- The value being decided by the client is a problem we all face from time to time. The client doesn't know what they are doing, just because we make it look simple doesn't mean it is.

Many times we have acquiesced to a client's idea of the price, only to be bitten by time, or difficulty. I applaud the suggestion that this company may have a high overhead, but I also would suggest that a given tree in a given market could be priced to match the market price.

Around this area prices vary with neighborhoods, some neighborhoods will not support most professional tree care services, period- These areas crawl with the fly-by-nighters that have truck, saw, and a rope, all claiming to be insured and licensed. When they quote prices far below the going rates, you have to wonder how they can afford to offer those prices. But then again, we have seen them damage property and jump into their trucks and never come back.

A couple of years ago, a Latin American crew were doing a tree removal on embassy row in Chevy Chase, MD, they dropped the tree across a fence and caused an international crisis, between two embassies. The tree company were all illegals, and were arrested on the spot.

The facts aren't clear in this case with a price of $1750 to remove a willow in a backyard with stump grinding. It could be very fair in price.

Licensing, insurance, perhaps a certified arborist, etc. equipment, trucks, chippers, etc all make for higher costs. I suggest that if walt isn't willing to pay the price, he should get a chainsaw and do it himself, perhaps learning it isn't as easy as it looks.
:chainsawguy:

 

[outonalimbts]

LTE in Maryland is based upon having worked under a LTE for a minimum of time plus...

So what qualifies as a "tree expert".

There are some guys been in business for a dozen years, and frankly know a very narrow part of tree care.

Others who have been in business lesser time, may know more (at least the theory).

How do they judge this? Time in business.. certification.. what is used? Certification is good.. but not necessarily the end all.. there are a lot of companies who do only dangerous removals and stump removals.. and would not necessarily need to be certified as an arborist. Just curious how they do this.

Maryland has a screwed up regulation process, an individual must either work for a company that is a licensed Tree Expert for 5 years or, go to school for 2 years taking classes in horticulture, plus work for a LTE for a minimum of 1 year to sit for the test. Then they must also carry contractors insurance against property damages.

Check it out at http://www.dnr.state.md.us/forests/programapps/newtreeexpert.asp

It is a criminal offense to solicit work in MD unless you are a LTE, and it is also an offense to HIRE an unlicensed Tree Expert in MD.

I would like to see the regulations change to allow ISA Certified Arborists that have a certification be allowed to sit for the test, most already have the general liability insurances needed and can prove it as well. Do away with the apprenticeship requirement all together...

My two cents!

 

[TreeClimber57]

The problem with this situation is that we all need to see it to determine the actual cost- The value being decided by the client is a problem we all face from time to time. The client doesn't know what they are doing, just because we make it look simple doesn't mean it is.

So true.. and it is difficult to imaging that the job can be done in 2-3 hours (including clean up and disposal of wood). Willows can leave a lot of small crap on ground.. (at least to our level of cleanup)

Too bad didn't live closer - I would love to see it.

I once had a similar case about 3 years ago.. pricing was different.. but homeowner was telling me what it would cost.

I finally told them if they were willing to help me and one of my best guys .. and we could complete the cleanup and disposal in the time they suggested (that was 3 men) (I would pay them the amount they figured it cost).. but if it took one minute longer they had to pay my price (which was about 3 times higher).

They didn't have anything more to say.. and finally agreed to get us to do work. I was told by neighbour they had 2 other companies look at the job.. so based upon fact that we got the job I suspect the other two were either very unprofessional in their approach, or were higher in cost.

So in the end we got job.. and we got price we originally asked

 

[TreeClimber57]

Maryland has a screwed up regulation process, an individual must either work for a company that is a licensed Tree Expert for 5 years

I will take a look later in week sometime..

But would be interesting to know how they got the title when they first introducted.. must have been some kind of grandfather in place for existing companies.

 

[Arbor Vision]

So what qualifies as a "tree expert".

There are some guys been in business for a dozen years, and frankly know a very narrow part of tree care.

Others who have been in business lesser time, may know more (at least the theory).

How do they judge this? Time in business.. certification.. what is used? Certification is good.. but not necessarily the end all.. there are a lot of companies who do only dangerous removals and stump removals.. and would not necessarily need to be certified as an arborist. Just curious how they do this.

Outonalimbts explained it very well in his post.... our laws are about to get even stricter come 2/1/11, there adding a bunch.

 

[Arbor Vision]

I will take a look later in week sometime..

But would be interesting to know how they got the title when they first introducted.. must have been some kind of grandfather in place for existing companies.

Yes there was a way to grandfather in......i'll get a link for you that shows the process.

 

[ducaticorse]

I'm a tree expert... One time I raked up leaves from an entire oak tree. #### was intense...

Hosing a customer will get you one way eventually, but one way for sure. OUT OF BUSINESS. Don't do it. You make us all look bad. PLUS, you put more work in the hands of pick up truck hacks. BS all around.

FYI, that tree service that went to your home to quote that tree has a biz to run, he's not doing it for his health. If you can do it yourself, do it yourself. Don't waste our time bringing us out to quote jobs that you feel you're qualified to execute on your own. See you at the ER......

 

[wheelloader123]

Hey,
As for your rules in MD, be glad they're there. They (although through means you might object to) elevate the playing field and ad difficulty to the entry process. It takes money and dedication to get into the game-that automatically requires a little higher intellect than most "bubba" tree guys have. In my area, if you have a few bucks for an ad and a city license you're a "tree guy" and open for business.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Hey,
As for your rules in MD, be glad they're there. They (although through means you might object to) elevate the playing field and ad difficulty to the entry process. It takes money and dedication to get into the game-that automatically requires a little higher intellect than most "bubba" tree guys have. In my area, if you have a few bucks for an ad and a city license you're a "tree guy" and open for business.

Agreed. It is a pain in the butt.. on other hand.. it does weed out the part time/week-end tree experts for the most part. It should ultimately raise the playing field, and hopefully the rates come into line by cleaning out some of the lowballers.

 

[ducaticorse]

Hey,
As for your rules in MD, be glad they're there. They (although through means you might object to) elevate the playing field and ad difficulty to the entry process. It takes money and dedication to get into the game-that automatically requires a little higher intellect than most "bubba" tree guys have. In my area, if you have a few bucks for an ad and a city license you're a "tree guy" and open for business.

VERY WELL SAID........ I've been #####ing about the need for regulation in MA regarding our industry too. And I'm a republican........ You should see my craigslist propaganda campaigns... LOL

 

[TreeClimber57]

I'm a tree expert... One time I raked up leaves from an entire oak tree. #### was intense...

Bet that was intense Wonder what that makes me !! I must be several thousand oak trees that I have cleaned up by now ... Oh well.. maybe I will figure it out someday

Hosing a customer will get you one way eventually, but one way for sure. OUT OF BUSINESS. Don't do it. You make us all look bad. PLUS, you put more work in the hands of pick up truck hacks. BS all around.

Good point. However, bring it into proper perspective. Do not compare a lowballer to a legitimate tree service company and assume the legitimate guy is "hosing the customer". Look at what a plumber or electrician charges.. neither one of them has overhead any more than a mid-size tree company, and in fact I can guarantee some items such as insurance and workers comp are almost certain ally lower for them. Yet people will pay them the rates they ask, and barely question it.

FYI, that tree service that went to your home to quote that tree has a biz to run, he's not doing it for his health. If you can do it yourself, do it yourself. Don't waste our time bringing us out to quote jobs that you feel you're qualified to execute on your own. See you at the ER......

Good points..