How are other tree companies doing?

[newsawtooth]

Where to start?

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches whileJose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!

What are you waiting for? Pass it on.

Not only is the effective tax rate wrong because they do not include basic deductions and inaccurate tax rates, the effective tax rate is more like 18%, but the basic math is wrong. 30% of 52,000 is 15,600 not 20,769. Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%? Joe's health care is likely provided by his employer, he might receive social security payments eventually, and his employer is paying taxes on Joe's labor. Jose Illegal as he is known, cannot collect any benefits without verifiable identification, he must pay for medical care in cash, he is unable to recover any tax refunds for his children, and his employer is relived of the $18000 or so in taxes that he must pay on Joe. If you guys are going to rely on Glenn Beck for your information, at least check his math.

 

[gr8scott72]

he must pay for medical care in cash,

Oh really? :monkey: "Must pay" and "supposed to pay" is the difference between theory and reality.

And who pays to educate his kids?

And who pays when he crashes his uninsured car into someone else's?

 

[treesquirrel]

Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%?

A lot of people pay well over 30% in taxes. If you are diligent enough maybe you will experience that tax bracket. But probably not.

 

[ronnyb]

Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.

 

[tree MDS]

Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.

Thats awesome. I've never been booked that far ahead. you must run a tight ship. How do you tell people they are gonna have to wait so long??

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Busy here. Booked a little over 5 weeks out.

I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Not only is the effective tax rate wrong because they do not include basic deductions and inaccurate tax rates, the effective tax rate is more like 18%, but the basic math is wrong. 30% of 52,000 is 15,600 not 20,769. Who pays 30% in taxes much less 40%? Joe's health care is likely provided by his employer, he might receive social security payments eventually, and his employer is paying taxes on Joe's labor. Jose Illegal as he is known, cannot collect any benefits without verifiable identification, he must pay for medical care in cash, he is unable to recover any tax refunds for his children, and his employer is relived of the $18000 or so in taxes that he must pay on Joe. If you guys are going to rely on Glenn Beck for your information, at least check his math.

Your post, as above, is laughable, in a sad way. Perhaps you have no actual experience with what you're talking about, so I'll let that slide. People do, indeed, pay 30% in taxes, or more, depending on state of residency, income bracket, local/state/federal regulations, etc. Jose chose to come here, illegally, and usually learns how to work the system: He pays no federal taxes, his kids get free educations, he and his family get free medical care. I pay taxes, lots and lots of taxes. I pay into the school district where Jose's kids go to get their education. I cannot opt out, even though my kids are grown. That school district has terrible schools where the kids don't care to learn. I am taxed to the breaking point. I pay taxes into the city and county-run medical services. I don't use them. Guess who does? I'm glad you're insulated from the reality of the system I deal with all of the time, but don't talk the talk until you've walked the walk.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Oh really? :monkey: "Must pay" and "supposed to pay" is the difference between theory and reality.

And who pays to educate his kids?

And who pays when he crashes his uninsured car into someone else's?

RIGHT ON! The guy needs a crash course in reality.

 

[newsawtooth]

RIGHT ON! The guy needs a crash course in reality.

Reality? How about intellectual honesty? I took issue with the calculations used to show the relationship between fictional characters. If your effective tax rate as a head of household or joint filer with standard deductions is 30% and you make less than $363K, you need a new accountant. If 30% of 52,000 is 20,769 then you need a new calculator.

 

[mckeetree]

I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----

I think some of these guys are working in a different dimension than us or something. Maybe some sort of parallel universe.

 

[oldirty]

i get 35% of my money taxed and then after all the deductions i pay 50$ a week in medical insurance.

doesn't make it worthwhile to work 60+ hrs a week but i do.

oh and i am eligible for nothing.

 

[gr8scott72]

Reality? How about intellectual honesty? I took issue with the calculations used to show the relationship between fictional characters. If your effective tax rate as a head of household or joint filer with standard deductions is 30% and you make less than $363K, you need a new accountant. If 30% of 52,000 is 20,769 then you need a new calculator.

And if you think an illegal is going to pay for education, insurance, or medical care, you need a reality check.

 

[ronnyb]

I have to laugh, sorry. Yeah, you must be one helluva magician: You wave your wand and your clients go into a state of suspended animation as they wait five weeks for your crews to show up. Down here, if you can't do the work in a day or two, at most, it is quickly gone, given to one of the other two hundred tree companies that are down here, legal or otherwise. Maybe I should move on up to beer/HD town-----

Not a magician, just a good businessman. I have a client list of approximately 1100, don't advertise, and always recieve referrals. I don't try to compete with the "economy" or "affordable" tree services. I do sell my credentials and am honest with my clients. If a client can't wait, or I just can't fit them into my schedule; I have two other companies that I refer them to. Works for me. We also have illegal hack companies, but I don't even try to compete with them. 6 or 7 years ago, we would be booked 3 months or more out.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I think some of these guys are working in a different dimension than us or something. Maybe some sort of parallel universe.

That's funny. I said almost the same thing, word for word, to my gf, after reading about the guy who claims to be booked five weeks out.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Not a magician, just a good businessman. I have a client list of approximately 1100, don't advertise, and always recieve referrals. I don't try to compete with the "economy" or "affordable" tree services. I do sell my credentials and am honest with my clients. If a client can't wait, or I just can't fit them into my schedule; I have two other companies that I refer them to. Works for me. We also have illegal hack companies, but I don't even try to compete with them. 6 or 7 years ago, we would be booked 3 months or more out.

OK, let's get into a reality check, here. Maybe I'm not understanding you, and I honestly apologize if that's the case. Are you saying that you are booked SOLID 5 weeks into the future, as in every day of the week you're doing single jobs for residential customers? Are you saying that a customer calls you and needs work done and you tell them, "I can get to it in five weeks." and they're perfectly fine with that? Further, are you saying that an apparently great number of customers are cool with waiting weeks for you to do their jobs? OR Are you saying that you have a single client who is wanting you to do their trees in five weeks?

If the former is the case, what is the name of your tree company? What are your credentials, that you refer to?

There was a guy on here, a real blowhard, whom I researched through various arboricultural foundation sites, online. Once I "outed" him, he disappeared. Seems most of his claims were spurious.

OK, so, what is your company's name, and what are your credentials, if you would be so kind----

 

[Sunrise Guy]

And if you think an illegal is going to pay for education, insurance, or medical care, you need a reality check.

 

[booboo]

FWIW, I DO total out at 28% for taxes between federal, state, FICA, town, and school...so those #'s are not too far off here. And we are still very slow. The "recovery" in the far upstate is non-existent and NYS itself is bordering on insolvency....

 

[beowulf343]

That's funny. I said almost the same thing, word for word, to my gf, after reading about the guy who claims to be booked five weeks out.

Why are you having such a hard time believing this? Five or six guys on this thread have said they were booked two or more weeks ahead. Last i looked at the job board, my crew has jobs scheduled every day except sundays up till june 17th, and we're only one crew out of twenty in the outfit.

Maybe if you spent a little less time on this forum whining about illegals and a little more time picking up jobs.....

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Why are you having such a hard time believing this? Five or six guys on this thread have said they were booked two or more weeks ahead. Last i looked at the job board, my crew has jobs scheduled every day except sundays up till june 17th, and we're only one crew out of twenty in the outfit.

Maybe if you spent a little less time on this forum whining about illegals and a little more time picking up jobs.....

Watch it, man. I'm not "whining about illegals." If you want to attack me on some low level, I'll report your f:censored:ing :censored: I'm stating, in here, why business is off, and the facts are what they are. If some independent is saying that he's booked five weeks out, I want to know how. You are apparently working for some mega-company with twenty crews. There's a huge difference in that whole scene. BIG companies have sweetheart contracts with municipal governing bodies, and I can't compete there. In the South, where independents are trying to stay afloat, the illegal problem is huge. To talk, on here, with other guys who are dealing with the same issue, gives a little bit of relief, to an extent. Whining is not what I'm doing. This is a forum, so I'm discussing issues that are relevant to me and others. If you don't want to read my posts, I believe there's a way to block them.

 

[mattfr12]

we are booked out more than 5 weeks solid work maybe closer to 8. we run 2 crews doing 2-3 smaller jobs a day. or one larger job a piece.

maybe its because of the nature of alot of trees we cut a bunch of mexicans and a ladder arnt gonna cut it on some of this stuff.

on top of our residential we prune oaks during the winter season for 3 townships.

if anyone doesnt buy it i can provide company info and referances.