How do you use "gunning" marks on a saw?

[NebClimber]

Can someone please explain to me how to use the gunning marks on a saw? I can't even find them, and if I could find them I wouldn't know how to use them anyway. But I need to figure it out. I have a husky 385xp and a 357xp, so these saw should have gunning marks on them.

Steven

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

This is an inter- arresting thread: http://www.arboristsite.com//showthread.php?threadid=13823

 

[MasterBlaster]

That line on the top of your saw is your gunning line.

If you keep that pointed where you want the tree to fall as you make your topcut on the under bed, the notch will be correct to the lay.

 

[Ax-man]

Most Sthils have a line on the flywheel side ( rewind housing)and on the clutch cover, in addition to the top line like MB described. I would think Husky has the same set-up.

If you ever get a chance to go to one of those Sthil Certification seminars, don't pass it up, they cover how to use those felling sights, plus much more.



Larry

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think the sight line just sets the bar perpendicular to the target; with squared clean cuts using it to get bar perpendicular to target will:

Put thinnest point across hinge/ least leveraging to fold to target, as path of least resistance. (or backwards as a function of being on the same axis, hinge will have same charachteristics against.)

Place corners of hinge pulls equally form target to balance to it in the pre-face slap phase.

AS faces close and the motion is changed from vertical down, to throwing tree forward horizontally, the outside most leveraged points of push in faces would also be evenly spaced to target; serving evenly to it again.


They used to sell, or try to sell 'gunning stix'; idea was to place one end of each equal length pole in the corne apex where the faces meet on either side. Then touch them together at a point out in front of the face. Done siiting inside the formed triangle, you would line up from the center of the hinge, th where the stix came to a point, then forward to show target line of fall.

The outside corners of the hinge are most leveraged pull positition, so this takes that into consideration. The most leveraged/powerfull face push is is also at the leveraged outer reaches of the hinge corners i beleive.

Orrrrr something like that!
:alien:

 

[murphy4trees]

Good question!!!! How many others never bothered to ask in two or more decades of falling trees...

This is how you use a gunning line... I left thre pic big on purpose so you could get a good look at the saw...

That black line on either side of the compression release button on top of the saw, just below my left hand is a gunning line...

Keeping the bar level and standing over the saw as the first and top cut of the notch is made, gives the faller a great view staight doen the gunning line... it's easier to judge than when judging the floor cut first, because you have a better angle to look from than when the saw is low on the floor cut..

I was just talking to a regional and the original safety and training coordinator for Bartlett Tree service and he had no understanding of the fine points and benefits of this technique...
To his credit though, he was very appreciative of the conversation, and a great guy as well..

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Pretty sharp!

In a perfectly round circle/stump, the cut entrance at very top of that peak like an arrow, will be online with the closest part of the circle's circumfrence towards the target. Keep bar pependicular to a line running from there to target evenly. This places most leveraged corners of hinge equal from target line to pull and push evenly to target.

If you could look up under tree after square lay to face/target; obviosly that "arrow" at top of upper face, willnow point from stump to target.

i think developing a feel for these things, leaves the gunning line behind.

 

[murphy4trees]

i think developing a feel for these things, leaves the gunning line behind.

Gotta strongly disagree with that statement. The "feel" starts and finishes with the gunning line... Start the cut looking right down that sight as pictured and finish looking the same to make sure you've stayed right on....

Using that gunnubg line is the cat's meow.....

You can see in this pic that the gunning lines runs right over the top of the saw... It is sometimes useful to double check the sight though mostly not needed as long as the top cut is gunned properly...

Come to think of it, the technical editor at TCI magazine had never heard the term "gunning" or "gun" used in this meaning before he read an article I submitted there... That just goes to show what a tremendous lack of good information is made a vailable in this industry...

 

[glens]

Hey Murph

As long as you're resizing the images, think you could get them down to around 100K for us poor POTS modem folks?

Glen

 

[murphy4trees]

Is this small enough?

Pic 1

 

[murphy4trees]

Even smaller pic 2

 

[NebClimber]

Murphy:

I see the gunning line on the saw. So what exactly do I do with it?

Just watch it to make sure it is perpindicular to the ground? Or do I line it up with something else?

Do I look toward the intended fallng path of the tree?

Again, whith what do I aline the gunning marks?

Steven

 

[Gord]

The gunning lines are perpendicular to the bar of the saw so they point in the direction of the intended fall of the tree, of course other factors must be compensated for a lot of the time for true direction of fall.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

You are gunning sight to where the gunning stix would aim at placed in the corners; the target. Any equal length stix would work, 2 equal length polesaws etc.

It might not look like it cuz he isn't bent down on one knee sighting across the line; but i think you can see his body lined up squarely next to tree, though standing; eye is lined up straight across mark then looking to target.

i'll have to give it another round their Murph; mebe i just got lazy, every once in a while i check a sighting with it; but generally make the top arrow of top face point towrds target, and keep bar straight, feeding squarely, evenly down cut. In tree, with ground target, i might point with the bottom face entrance point.

The feel i aim for is pointing this way, then keeping the bar square/perpendicular to target, perpendicular to a line from the pointer to the target; like a mirror trying to shine a light right from the bar, to the target.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

So you guys are saying the gunning line is at a 90 degree angle to the bar and all you gotta do is stick the bar against the notch and look down the line? That's amazing.

Hey Murph, still cutting your notches 3/4 of the way throught he tree, I see.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In a shallow or back leaner or need more forward pull to overcome side pull; i think a deeper face might help.

Actually, i think Murph has written about going in1/3, to place the leveraged corner on the support side of the tapered hinge you love into the widest and most elastic fibers i think as a strategy.

And your dawg's................ oops wrong trhread....!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

No wonder he has a brand new saw and the bar it already all shot, he spends half his day cutting notches.

 

[murphy4trees]

Mike,
Wow I feel the love.... Actually you make a good point and it can serve as a teaching piece as well..
See the stump shot of that same cut in this pic...

It seems to me that that particular notch is just about 30%, maybe a little bigger.... However I don't strictly follow the 30% rule... it's a guideline... a basic idea of what to use.... in most easy falling situations 15-20% is plenty... I've actually been questioned about cutting such small notches...

In this situation a slight front leaner with a plunge and back release, there was no need to cut such a deep notch, so you are quite correct in bringing the subject up... However there is a good reason for this deep notch??? Look at the pic and see if you can figure it out....

 

[murphy4trees]

I wanted to make the hinge right at the split in the trunk to keep the flush cut poice as small as possible... So I started the roof cut of the hinge using the gunning line and just kept cutting until the cut reached the desired height... To me that aslo is a big advantage to making the roof cut firston an open face notch... you can adjust the height placement of the hinge as you go, always being able to take it down... Sometimes doing that as you cut is advantageous.

Turns out in retrospect I could have made the notch even lower, very close to ground level, though I had some unfounded concerns about decay down there...

Now as far as the bar being shot... there is a good reason for that too .................................................

I bought that saw three days before Isabel hit 9/03, and took it down to Va. to do stump grinding... I beat 9 carbide chains with that 20" bar... cutting the stems off large sunk uprooted trees... sometimes plunging right into the ground. It took a beating.... We dug and hosed plenty of dirt off, but that kind of work is hard on the saws.... Those carbide chains cost 1.5x the cost of a bar... that is plenty of wear and tear... and all paid for too!!!!

 

[glens]

A little better on the sizes.  It's not just physical geometry of the image that's a factor, but also (and sometimes more so) the density of the image.  A "quality" of "75%" is quite sufficient for Web-based stuff.  The first newly resized image took 1½ minutes to arrive, and it filled the pipe so full that no other traffic can use it.  The second one was a bit better at 35 seconds, and the third was somewhere between.

I don't know exactly what information is in the images you put up, but running them through the "convert" program (included with ImageMagick, from from http://www.imagemagick.org/) in the one case, with no other options, reduced the size 60%.  Actually, the same occurs with the other two, but they're still needlessly large, so I hit them with the "-resize 67%" parameter.

Here's a partial directory listing, showing the file sizes in bytes, date, and name:

<font face="fixed">&nbsp; 364853 May 19 01:11 12911.jpg
&nbsp;&nbsp; 96918 May 19 09:04 12911.jpg.67.jpg
&nbsp; 178679 May 19 01:13 12912.jpg
&nbsp; 106229 May 19 09:04 12912.jpg.jpg
&nbsp; 422427 May 19 08:30 12913.jpg
&nbsp; 111232 May 19 09:11 12913.jpg.67.jpg</font>

I'll attach the smallest.&nbsp; It's not too small is it?

Glen