how long is too long?

[FATGUY]

Hey guys, need to pick your brains. I have a friend who has made a deal with someone to fell some Black Walnuts, Pines and Cherry's and have them milled. The guy proposes to fell them, wait two weeks and then begin milling them. Is this too long to wait? Should he cover the ends right away? If so, with what? (the property is in North Central Ohio)

 

[Timberframed]

They will be fine even after a couple of months but the sooner the better. I worked a cherry that had been felled 3 years with no end seal. Still had the cherry scent and didn't check on me like cherry does.

 

[FATGUY]

TY! I thought the 2 hardwoods would be ok, but I worried about the pine

 

[TraditionalTool]

TY! I thought the 2 hardwoods would be ok, but I worried about the pine

The sooner you can cover the ends the better, but they will be fine for a couple weeks. I've milled some that hadn't had the ends covered for a couple years, some had checks and some didn't. It's not as if they will dry up and check in a couple weeks.

 

[mikeb1079]

i think the concern is more about staining than checking. i agree that walnut and cherry should be fine but i've heard that pine will stain fairly quickly especially in warm weather. then again, some may like the stain!

 

[FATGUY]

I assume checking means cracking, now in the event of staining, is that to say the wood grain would become more pronounced, or the entire wood color may darken?

 

[Timberframed]

What kind of Pine?

 

[FATGUY]

will find out when I talk to him next. Do the different species of pine behave that differently?

 

[TraditionalTool]

View attachment 199000

I assume checking means cracking, now in the event of staining, is that to say the wood grain would become more pronounced, or the entire wood color may darken?

Yes, checking means cracking, and it doesn't happen overnight. As the tree dries it will check, from the center of the tree outward. The center, or what is known as the pith is where most of the tension is. Most sawyers approach this by either cutting out the pith, or box hearting in, meaning they put the pith in the middle of a beam and center it on both ends the best they can.

With wide boards it is often desirable to cut the pith out completely leaving clear wood on each side, if you have it. If there are lot of branches on the log, you will see those spike to the center of the tree, and what creates knots.

Trees will start checking as they dry, but remember it takes a massive amount of time to dry wood, approx. 1" per year. Within a given amount of time they will reach their equilibrium and slow way down, and most people try to wait until the wood is at least 15% before using, and down around 10% is typically good enough for furniture. That said, you can build with green wood and people do all the time, just need to account for settling. These numbers are not science, and vary.

Even if your logs were sitting after they were felled, for 2-3 months, I wouldn't worry too much about it. What I would worry about is once you mill them up, make sure you have them sticker'd good or they will bow, twist, check, etc...while they dry. With quality wood like walnut and cherry, you should make sure they have time to dry before using them. Make sure you paint the ends when you mill it also.

Lastly, the stain is often referred to as "blue stain", and is caused by a few different factors. Some is caused from beatles that live under the bark, and lodgepole pine sees this often. Most pine will stain some, given the opportunity, and it doesn't change the quality of the wood, only the looks. Some people don't like it, some people will be extra for it. It is considered rustic also. This is what it looks like:

My $0.02, worth what you paid for it...

 

[Talltom]

Two weeks should not be a problem. Any longer and you should store them up off the ground. However, end checking will begin almost immediately and will continue after the log is cut into lumber. Put Anchorseal on the ends as soon as they are cut. Some use latex paint on the ends, but Anchorseal is specifically made for this and costs no more than latex paint. Makes no sense to me to wait until after milling to treat the ends. Black walnut and cherry are premium woods and deserve special care.

 

[Stihlman441]

I have in the past just cut afew inchs off the ends before i start milling if i leave the logs for any length of time.

 

[TraditionalTool]

Two weeks should not be a problem. Any longer and you should store them up off the ground. However, end checking will begin almost immediately and will continue after the log is cut into lumber. Put Anchorseal on the ends as soon as they are cut. Some use latex paint on the ends, but Anchorseal is specifically made for this and costs no more than latex paint. Makes no sense to me to wait until after milling to treat the ends. Black walnut and cherry are premium woods and deserve special care.

Well, I didn't mean to imply after cutting...:bang:

I would definitely apply the sealer before cutting it, or you would need to do each piece. In reading how I typed it I can see how you may have thought that, but I meant when he goes back in a couple weeks. I hate to admit but probably wouldn't go back until I was going to mill it...so I would wait to treat them for a couple weeks. :msp_rolleyes: Otherwise if I did, I wouldn't go back for a while and put it off...

Bailey's has a pretty good product I bought not long ago, and tested it out. It looses it's color and gets clear in a couple weeks. Cheaper than Anchorseal. You need to buy 5 gal. of it though...

 

[TraditionalTool]

I have in the past just cut afew inchs off the ends before i start milling if i leave the logs for any length of time.

Me as well, not just because I left them, but I got a load of trees from a foundation contractor, and they were ripped out of the ground with an excavator...

Timber is a funny thing, it changes all the time. Even the time of year makes a difference.

 

[gemniii]

<snip> Some use latex paint on the ends, but Anchorseal is specifically made for this and costs no more than latex paint. Makes no sense to me to wait until after milling to treat the ends. Black walnut and cherry are premium woods and deserve special care.

However many of us have leftover, partial cans of latex lying around the house, already paid for.

 

[BobL]

Maybe it's the hot Aussie sun here but I reckon paint the ends as soon as possible and mill them when it's convenient.

 

[Talltom]

My fault, TT on the assumption of after cutting vs before. Certainly much easier to paint the entire end of the log than to do individual boards. Still don't see a reason to delay, but have to admit that I sometimes do. I've tried both leftover latex paint and Anchorseal (plus a similar wax emulsion product) and have gotten much better results with the wax products.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

My fault, TT on the assumption of after cutting vs before. Certainly much easier to paint the entire end of the log than to do individual boards. Still don't see a reason to delay, but have to admit that I sometimes do. I've tried both leftover latex paint and Anchorseal (plus a similar wax emulsion product) and have gotten much better results with the wax products.

Plus 1,

Rob

 

[TraditionalTool]

My fault, TT on the assumption of after cutting vs before. Certainly much easier to paint the entire end of the log than to do individual boards. Still don't see a reason to delay, but have to admit that I sometimes do. I've tried both leftover latex paint and Anchorseal (plus a similar wax emulsion product) and have gotten much better results with the wax products.

For the test I did with the Bailey's product, it worked good for me. I don't use latex paint myself, but wouldn't consider myself to have done a lot of treating, I previous only used a couple quarts of Anchorseal, but for me the Bailey's works as well. I'll be putting my 5 gal. to use soon.

In the best world we can all fell, treat the ends and let them dry as slow as they can and mill at our leisure...but the real world doesn't always work out that way, logs are ripped out of the ground in some cases, maybe sit for a month before getting dragged out, etc...I keep looking for that perfect world...:Eye:

 

[BobL]

One of my tins of latex paint developed a small leak allowing a substantial amount of water to escape. The result was something like a whipped cream that can be applied much thicker and works much better than regular paint (but still not as good as the wax products). The problem with the Wax sealer products here in Australia is the price of small amounts, in bulk (50 Gallons) it's ~ $5/Gallon but the next size down I can find (1/2 gallon) is 10 times that.

 

[FATGUY]

thank you gentlemen so much. My friend has read the thread a couple of times now and he thanks you as well.