How short is too short????

[Alex D]

I am not arguing with anyoue cutting small trees with short bars . But as to sharp chains , I've watched Alot of utube vids of guys bucking cookies and its quite obvious their chains are not truely sharp .

When someone brags that they can cut 70" on the stump timber with a 24" bar . Sorry but I'm gonna call b.s. in the most vehemint manner .

But anyone can use what they want . Just don't claim a short bar works as well as a longer bar in many situations .

Why if I may ask? I don't see anything impossible about cutting a 70" diameter tree with a 25" bar. 25x3=75 when you minus the spike grab of an inch or two that puts the tree right at about 70" or 3 times the bars lenght. In that big cedar vid the guy looks to be running a 42" bar on a 660 falling a 15 foot diameter tree look at 1:14-1:15, that bar is certainly not 5 feet in lenght. 15x12= 180/42 and thats a tree 4.3 times bigger than the bar yet they felled it. Now it definately takes skill and experience no question about that.

I have not met many folks have recieved any training beyond what they have seen from family and friends or if they were motivated read. I have not. Even many of the commercial cutters do not get much beyond a safety seminar and some "on the job training". If the OP does not need a 28" bar mounted to his 441 to cut what he is cutting then why not use a 20". If he is physically able to bend the body parts needed to use the shorter bar then good for him. A 28" bar in a 16" locust stand in as much of a pita as 16" bar in a 36" maple for me so why not run what he wants.

I always kind of figured that the "European" techniques were an effort to slow down production, create a specialized work force and reduce waste with an emphasis on increased safety being it's most "marketable" an enforcable attibutes.

IJ, the 20" bar a 441 is pretty standard around here so I would look for other reasons as to why the chain broke.

Here in Ontario Canada for example there is a serious lack of training when it comes to timber fallers. There are 2 courses that I am aware of- one is a chainsaw safety course which runs for 2 days the first day they teach maintenance and on day two they teach falling. One day is certainly not enough. However this course is not required to work as a timber faller. What they do require is a skidder+cutter course which runs 3 days and is evenly split between cutting and skidding. 2 1/2 days,provided the extra and not required course is taken, is hardly enough to teach about timber falling. But how can a 1 1/2 day course make someone qualified is beyond me.

 

[KiwiBro]

I run a 16'' on my 241C

Same here, but only because I'm in manLove with picco and can't find a decent, bigger, .050" gauge bar. There were some NOS GB bars around but buggered if I know how to get a hold of any nowadays :-(.

But, for kicks (give the sheep a rest for a while) I'm gonna put my 20", .063", 3/8" bar and chain on it and see if it stands up on that. If so, then stay tuned for the pics of it eating a 4' DBH Macrocarpa.

A bit like using a fly rod on a black marlin off the back of a kayak. You just haven't lived until you've tried that at least once! I mean, you know it's gonna be a train wreck but can't help yourself. It's the chainsaw equivalent of a Jackass stunt. Which leads me to question whether there's a market for 241 parts yet if I have to part out my saw afterwards.

 

[tramp bushler]

I broke in buckin and 2 nd falling with working directly with a faller who had around30 years experience for about 8 months . Then working on a crew of profesional bushlers . Every good faller I know broke in under
Experienced professional fallers .

 

[tramp bushler]

Oh and until a guy has 5 seasons experience . He's not usually considered experienced enoughenough to cut any where , any timber on the coast .

 

[MCW]

I broke in buckin and 2 nd falling with working directly with a faller who had around30 years experience for about 8 months . Then working on a crew of profesional bushlers . Every good faller I know broke in under
Experienced professional fallers .

Oh and until a guy has 5 seasons experience . He's not usually considered experienced enoughenough to cut any where , any timber on the coast .

I think we get it. You're a legend and everybody else is not.
There are a whole heap of professional chainsaw use situations that don't fit your ideals. So how does one get 5 season's of experience before they're actually allowed to cut anything?

 

[MCW]

But, for kicks (give the sheep a rest for a while) I'm gonna put my 20", .063", 3/8" bar and chain on it and see if it stands up on that. If so, then stay tuned for the pics of it eating a 4' DBH Macrocarpa.

You sure that 20" has the right bar mount? If so bring it on

 

[tramp bushler]

Your cutting all the while time . But breaking in bucking . But until you have 5 seasons exp. A faller isn't really a cut anywhere, any type timber situation . When we had a strong timber industry there was lots of work so a guy could stay working . Now its pretty tough to break in up here.

 

[KiwiBro]

You sure that 20" has the right bar mount? If so bring it on

I stumbled upon a guy the other day who has a few million smackers invested in CNC/milling machines (the kind that can get down to a micron or two for accuracy) tucked away up a long driveway in a rather nondescript industrial shed and whilst he doesn't ever need to look for extra work (in fact he passively discourages it) he's happy to do a few oddball things as a change up from his normal work.

 

[tramp bushler]

And just so no one thinks I've never run a short bar.

681Solo 16" 3/8 50 ga full comp.8 tooth .
Makes a fast wood splitter .

 

[Rounder]

story of my life haha jk. so i was curious does anybody run a 20'' bar on a stihl 441?? i currently have a 28'' on it and well it cuts ok but after running a 660 i know now that its WAY to slow. i put a 20'' b&c on it once before but the darn chain broke when i was cutting some small rounds. im asking for any advice my grandpa thinks that a 20'' bar is too short for that many cc's but then again out here in the west people will always try to get a way with the biggest bar they can stick on their saw and quite honestly go with a bar that is way to big for thier saw. i know its probably in the search but i havent been on here in a while and its nice conversing with peope. thank you for any advice.

Is your 441 a 3/4 wrap with the big clutch cover?

 

[JustinM]

20" is perfect on a strong 70cc saw, with an 8-pin 3/8" setup.

Agreed. My 440 and my 7300 both sit with a 20" bar on them for most of their use. I actually prefer to keep it this way & when I want longer I'll grab the 660 as I feel the 20" balances the 70cc better to my touch.

 

[gmax]

I run a 20" on my makita 6401 BB/mac pm 850, most wood I cut is hardwood under 15".

 

[wyk]

Someone just recently brought this to my attention: Sawtroll should enjoy this - what looks to be a 555 with a 24" bar in use by Siderius:

Ax Men — Greenhorn Gets Schooled — History.com Videos

Yeah yeah I know it's Ax Men, but ya get the point.

 

[Trx250r180]

is this 2 short ? View attachment 239812 View attachment 239813 my stumping saw

 

[tramp bushler]

Well, it depends on what your cutting , but ya , I would say so .

 

[Trx250r180]

Well, it depends on what your cutting , but ya , I would say so .

hahahahah i couldnt resist ,thats my carpentry bar little 16 inch pico ,i measured with those dogs its only 14 inches past em, that saw usually has a 32 incher on it

 

[sawfun9]

For firewood I use a 20" on my 044 and a 25" on the 066. Yes, I use longer bars (28" and 36") on them but not for firewood cutting. The use of short bars has four advantages. First it's easier to move around with a shorter bar and second it puts wood in the trailer fast using more saw than is just necessary. Third, it's just easier on the saw if it doesn't have to work hard. Why be harder on the equipment than is necessary. Fourth is balance, if the saw is well balanced, it will feel lighter than it is and that makes one less tired at the end of the day. I've even used a 28" bar on my Mac 125 for stumping work that was a bit much for the 066. In that particular case the use of such and overpowerd saw put wood in the truck fast.

 

[tramp bushler]

On a 125 , a 36" is a short bar . A 125 was built to pull a 6' bar .
But , what ever .

 

[sawfun9]

That particular 125 usually wears a 50" bar, but for stumping, sometimes shorter can be just the thing. Someday I'll get a 60" for it, but my 090 usually takes over at that point with either a 60 or 84 inch bar. After using an 84" deep belly bar a 60" seems short. Talk about short bars, a 42" is short on a 090 but lots of guys seem to run them that way if the saws for sale on Ebay are any kind of representation of a common bar length for that saw. I have to admit that on some saws a short bar doesn't seem to work well though. Usually those are the older lower RPM high torque saws. I had an older 064 that I tried a 22" bar on and it was terrible but it sure worked great with a 32"

 

[tramp bushler]

Wow , a 42" on an 090 . A 395 Husky would probably out cut it . It wouldn't be any slower . Stock saws anyway .