How Would You Cut this Dangerous Hung-Up Tree?

[Paul Bunions]

I have been posting in a thread that started getting into the difficulty and importance of reading trees for safety purposes. To me, it seems like it's the most important thing I can do to avoid injuries. Aptly, today I had to start working on a problem tree.

This is some kind of trash oak. I would guess it was about 80 feet tall before it fell during Milton or Helene, and I would say it was between 24 and 30 inches thick at waist height. It's way too big to pull around with a tractor.

The top of it caught in some other trees, so it's stuck. It will come down on its own eventually, right on the dirt road that goes through my woods. I can't just leave it and wait.

If it came down, I suppose the lowest big branches would be falling around 20 feet, with a lot of energy. I don't want to do any work on that end because I can't get to much of it, a huge amount of stuff would be right over my head, there are branches bent like springs, and I don't know what the tree will do if I start cutting.

The tree did its best to make life hard for me. It has one fat trunk plus a smaller trunk about a foot thick. The fat trunk fell in the exact direction of the thin trunk, pinning the thin trunk under it. The place where the trunks join is solid. The bottom trunk is on the ground at one end, and its branches hold it up at the other.

The big trunk crosses over the little one, so at one end, you have to go under the big trunk on one side to cut anything, and at the other end, you have to go under the big trunk on the other side. The root area is the only place where you can cut without the big part of the tree over your head, and it's still high enough to roll over on you.

What would you do?

I cut all the trip hazards away because I didn't want to end up like Charlize Theron in Prometheus. I decided the safest thing was to cut the small trunk as close to the roots as I could, watching carefully in case the big trunk moved. I figured that if I could get the small one loose at the root end, I could pull it off to the side with the tractor, at least well enough so I could start cutting it up without anything over my head.

Once I have room around the big trunk, I plan to start cutting lengths from the root end. When I have cut horizontal trees like this in the past, I cut down from the top side and drove wedges in to keep the kerf from closing later. Then I bored again, below the wedges in the kerf, extending it. I kept going almost all the way through, leaving a strap at the bottom of the trunk to keep it from collapsing. Then I cut the strap and ran like hell.

So far, this has worked okay. I haven't had my saw pinched, and I have always had time to move before anything weird happened. Sometimes the trees got stuck after they were cut through, which was fine with me, because I would rather pull a tree apart with the tractor than have it fall suddenly while I'm right beside it.

I managed to get through the lower trunk with only one pinch, but the trunk is stuck. It seems like it may be moving very, very slowly.

I am planning to pull the cut end away tomorrow if the tree doesn't separate on its own tonight. I tried to use a pole saw on it so I could make all the cuts I wanted and get it over with, but even though the chain was sharpened recently, it threw dust and taxed the battery in a hurry. I needed to get done before the mosquitoes ate my entire body, so I resorted to using chainsaws instead. My fault for not checking my equipment.

Incidentally, Icy Hot Pro really kills the itch from dozens of mosquito bites.

Is there a better approach to a dangerous tree like this which is hung up in other trees?

The pictures aren't great. They are intended to show the root area, the trunk heading off toward the crown, and the crown of the tree stuck in the canopy.

 

[snobdds]

Throw a bunch of long logs across the hole left by the root ball. So it can't settle back in.

Then it's compression first, tension second. Don't forget your 36 inch bar.

 

[moxiemaul]

A couple months ago I had an elm leaning like that, not quite as long and no support branch beneath- about 2' diameter at the base, it was all in the air. I put a heavy ratchet strap (2" wide) around the trunk above where I was cutting, tight in case the trunk split, and another around the trunk, over to a nearby tree and back, also pulled tight. The theory being the straps would restrain a jump in my direction while I got out of there. The saw I brought was too short for a good face cut on the underside but it was ok-ish. I didn't need much back cut.. at least the tree went down straight.

But I'd first put a line over it far out along the trunk and give it a good hard tug, see if it might be inclined to go over. I do that with most any stuff hung up in the canopy before cutting. Probably easier said than done when the stuff is high up. But if you can get a throw ball over and pull a 1/2" line at least you can see how hard its stuck before getting intimate with the thing.

 

[Paul Bunions]

I never thought about the root ball. This is in the woods, so I don't care about the stump, but I can use logs on trees in my yard.

First time I've heard about cutting the compression side first. What's the reason? I always do it when cutting horizontal stuff that isn't problematic, to keep the lower side from splitting and tearing when the log finally snaps off. With small stuff, I cut the tension side first because it doesn't seem to matter, and I don't want to get pinched.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Paul Bunions]

A couple months ago I had an elm leaning like that, not quite as long and no support branch beneath- about 2' diameter at the base, it was all in the air. I put a heavy ratchet strap (2" wide) around the trunk above where I was cutting, tight in case the trunk split, and another around the trunk, over to a nearby tree and back, also pulled tight. The theory being the straps would restrain a jump in my direction while I got out of there. The saw I brought was too short for a good face cut on the underside but it was ok-ish. I didn't need much back cut.. at least the tree went down straight.

But I'd first put a line over it far out along the trunk and give it a good hard tug, see if it might be inclined to go over. I do that with most any stuff hung up in the canopy before cutting. Probably easier said than done when the stuff is high up. But if you can get a throw ball over and pull a 1/2" line at least you can see how hard its stuck before getting intimate with the thing.

The pictures don't do the tree justice. I think I would need a bulldozer to pull it over. It is really stuck at the top end. I would love to do it, but there is just no way.

This particular kind of tree doesn't like to split, so I have that going for me.

I like the idea of strapping it so it can't move toward me. It will be fine after the first couple of cuts, once the roots are gone and the trunk is against the ground. Getting the first cut done seems to be where the risk is.

 

[moxiemaul]

Yeah sometimes the tree seems like its ready to go, then you give it a tug and its solid. I had one of those last weekend- a codom locust noticably splaying over the path and obviously rotten up high. I snapped my junky "test" rope on it.. but that did give me confidence to go in with the saw. I did the full strap thing on it too, not knowing how rotten it was beyond "a lot". On the ground I found the middle 8" or so where I was cutting was basically dirt, and the stump below where I cut separated into two halves once "freed" from the rest of the trunk. So I'm a big fan of straps... kind of nerdy and takes time to set up I guess... but I've had biscotti trunks blow up on me and that is a surprise.

 

[Paul Bunions]

The oaks here are disgusting. I cut into one, and brown water full of startled cockroaches poured out. Some of the oaks are solid. Others are partly solid and partly a little spalted. Others are solid shells with rotten or empty cores.

They don't like to split, though. I guess it's the grain. I think people here learn bad habits because the oaks won't split. They get away with things that would get them killed in other places.

I have an 11,000-pound come along. Maybe I should use it sometimes and forget the tractor.

 

[moxiemaul]

Yeah that comealong set above your cut leading off low on another tree with a bunch of grunt on it so you can cut safe is the win... I like peace of mind. When I was cutting that locust I could feel the roots popping underground before it went, so I was really glad to have the strap pulling the trunk away from me. Today I bucked a bit less than a cord of splittable wood off the remains of the trunk- mostly green. Up close in the air that weight gets scary.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Today I put in about two and a half hours, part of which was spent on this tree. I managed to get through the trunk.

It was not pretty, and this is not quite where I wanted to be, but it will do.

I thought the top side of the trunk was compressed, but it turned out it was under tension. The tree's top wanted to fall out of the trees it was hung in. The root end was holding it up.

I cut straight down into the trunk and then inserted a wedge to keep the kerf open. A few minutes later, I saw that the wedge was falling into the kerf, so it was opening up.

I did not want to go near this while it was moving, so I went and got the pole saw. When I got back, the trunk had separated except for a strap at the bottom holding it to the stump. The tree's top had slid down the trees it was hung in. I used the pole saw to sever the strap, and the tree settled. I decided to leave it overnight to do what it wanted, and I went and cut limbs off some other downed trees.

The center of the fat end of the trunk is maybe 4 feet off the ground, so I don't want to fool with it, but the top of the tree is now down where I can get at it and start nibbling away. If I can cut it up from the top down, the trunk should keep sinking so I don't have to cut at chest height.

The root ball rolled back into the hole, which suits me, since I will not have a giant hole in my woods. I see the wisdom of propping it up, though, because a big root ball could hurt someone while falling back into place.

It was a hack job, but I am alive, and the end result will be the same as if it had been done correctly.

 

[BeatCJ]

It would be pretty easy to deal with the rest of the tree now.

Same rule, compression first (Top side of the log), then bottom. Go out a couple of log lengths from your stump (16'), sink a cut about the depth of your bar in the top of the log, up to about a quarter to a third of the diameter at that point. Stop BEFORE you feel it pinch. Then go directly under that cut and go up from the bottom.

Before you cut anything, brush out both sides. Make sure you don't have any spring poles. Cut yourself an escape path, with your bar right on the dirt. Cut everything off square so you don't have any sharp ends (punji sticks). Be prepared for the log to roll on you, and the top to spring towards you.

None of this says taking the top apart isn't the best path. I am making my judgement based on my experience and your photos. It looks as if you have already disposed of the smaller tree.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I've now taken apart three trees that were leaning against other trees with a large root ball held more or less vertical or at an angle. The first was not that big, maybe a foot in diameter. I thought the root ball would put the top surface of the tree in tension, and that is exactly what it did. I cut up from below part way through the trunk, then down from the top a few inches farther away from the root ball. The trunk fell down to the ground, splitting away from the base as the root ball fell back into the hole. My second tree had three trunks, and two were in the mid teens (inches near the bottom). I did the same thing, but each trunk was approached with care in case the whole thing moved. I cut the same way, watching while I cut from above with many pauses. Stop, look, assess what is moving or not, cut a bit more. No surprises except the huge 'whoooomph' when the root ball fell back into its hole. The Third was last week. A cherry tree had blown down against another tree and was resting on one side of the supporting tree. It seemed obvious that if I made the same cuts the ball would fall back in the hole, the trunk would fall to the ground, and the elevated canopy would either stay caught or fall on one side of the supporting tree (away from my cutting position). In order to fall toward me when I made the cuts, the canopy would have to lift up, transit the support, and then fall - not going to happen. Made the same cuts, watched the top cut widen and walked away to watch. Another bit of cutting and the trunk cracked and fell to the ground. The canopy followed...away from me.

My take on this is to prep the site, have an escape path, go slow, think about what is happening, and cut, watching the kerf. Sounds to me like you did all the right things. The only change I would have made was after the smaller trunk was cut, I would have removed some more of that stump.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Thanks for the help.

I want to keep the trunk pieces under 8 feet for a couple of reasons. First, I don't need a permit to burn a pile 8 feet in diameter. Second, rolling a 16-foot piece over to cut through it would require a lot of tussling with the tractor. I have a timberjack, but I don't think I can roll a really big log.

The lower tree is not gone, but I removed a lot of bothersome limbs and got some of the trunk cut.

I should have made the thin stump shorter. That is for sure. When I started cutting the big trunk, the thin stump was on the ground, as the photo shows. Having read the tree wrong, I thought the stump would stay put instead of rotating up and blocking the trunk from falling.

I plan to cut the trunk about 8 feet from the stump, if I can get away with it. It's convenient to have it held off the ground the way it is so I can cut it without lifting anything. With any luck, the upper end of the tree will continue holding the trunk up for me as I remove pieces.

I appreciate the tips about clearing a path. I did that today several times. A lady on Youtube says never to cut anything smaller than 3/4", but she wasn't out there in the weeds with me, waiting for a tree to fall on her. If I can't use a chainsaw, I'll have to go to the trouble of getting the big weed trimmer out and alternating tools.

I try to keep cut stems short without getting the bar in the dirt.

This area of my lot is tied up in a huge bird's nest of grape vines, so there is a lot to trip on and run into, and they pull on trees and trap cut limbs and so on.

This may be the first tree I've seen that was held up by the root ball. I'm used to them being hard to pull out of other trees. When this thing started dropping, it fell pretty quickly, so I feel vindicated about taking so much time with it. It could easily have killed someone who didn't plan on the unexpected.

 

[oldfortyfive]

"I appreciate the tips about clearing a path. I did that today several times. A lady on Youtube says never to cut anything smaller than 3/4", but she wasn't out there in the weeds with me, waiting for a tree to fall on her. If I can't use a chainsaw, I'll have to go to the trouble of getting the big weed trimmer out and alternating tools."

Use a pole saw to clear out smaller stuff. Keeps you out of the tangles.

 

[moxiemaul]

Not cut anything under 3/4"? lol I couldn't even get to the deadfalls and snags I work on if thats the rule. Brambles and wisteria is the big problem around here. Maybe I should bring my garden clippers instead? Or a bulldozer... We cut firewood lengths for anything over 6-ish" diameter, smaller than that we make lengths not more than 5' or so and stack them aside. Some stacks we leave and some we don't, mostly depending on condition and how hard we have to work to get them out. This time of year folks are hungry for the firewood size rounds so they vanish quickly and we don't have to split them.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Not cut anything under 3/4"? lol I couldn't even get to the deadfalls and snags I work on if thats the rule. Brambles and wisteria is the big problem around here. Maybe I should bring my garden clippers instead? Or a bulldozer... We cut firewood lengths for anything over 6-ish" diameter, smaller than that we make lengths not more than 5' or so and stack them aside. Some stacks we leave and some we don't, mostly depending on condition and how hard we have to work to get them out. This time of year folks are hungry for the firewood size rounds so they vanish quickly and we don't have to split them.

Her beef is that when you cut small things, you tear them, so the fibers go into the sprocket area. But then she repairs saws. She's not out there cutting all the time.

 

[moxiemaul]

lol thats why I cut with the top side of a long bar- push all that thorny madness away from me. The 1' or so above ground is critical, I find the cutting area isn't under control until I can get that clear with stable footing. Just being able to easily walk around something makes a big difference wrt taking it apart.

 

[Hermio]

Today I put in about two and a half hours, part of which was spent on this tree. I managed to get through the trunk.

It was not pretty, and this is not quite where I wanted to be, but it will do.

I thought the top side of the trunk was compressed, but it turned out it was under tension. The tree's top wanted to fall out of the trees it was hung in. The root end was holding it up.

I cut straight down into the trunk and then inserted a wedge to keep the kerf open. A few minutes later, I saw that the wedge was falling into the kerf, so it was opening up.

I did not want to go near this while it was moving, so I went and got the pole saw. When I got back, the trunk had separated except for a strap at the bottom holding it to the stump. The tree's top had slid down the trees it was hung in. I used the pole saw to sever the strap, and the tree settled. I decided to leave it overnight to do what it wanted, and I went and cut limbs off some other downed trees.

The center of the fat end of the trunk is maybe 4 feet off the ground, so I don't want to fool with it, but the top of the tree is now down where I can get at it and start nibbling away. If I can cut it up from the top down, the trunk should keep sinking so I don't have to cut at chest height.

The root ball rolled back into the hole, which suits me, since I will not have a giant hole in my woods. I see the wisdom of propping it up, though, because a big root ball could hurt someone while falling back into place.

It was a hack job, but I am alive, and the end result will be the same as if it had been done correctly.

View attachment 1215043

View attachment 1215044

I am glad you got through this safely.

 

[Hermio]

"I appreciate the tips about clearing a path. I did that today several times. A lady on Youtube says never to cut anything smaller than 3/4", but she wasn't out there in the weeds with me, waiting for a tree to fall on her. If I can't use a chainsaw, I'll have to go to the trouble of getting the big weed trimmer out and alternating tools."

Use a pole saw to clear out smaller stuff. Keeps you out of the tangles.

Also, cut the small stuff at full speed. It helps eject the stems and reduces the chance of clogging the chain or sprocket.

 

[holeycow]

Her beef is that when you cut small things, you tear them, so the fibers go into the sprocket area. But then she repairs saws. She's not out there cutting all the time.

Rubbish

 

[Hermio]

Rubbish

Not really. I have had small stuff get jammed and stop the chain or derail it. But I have found that full throttle cutting makes it less likely, as the small stuff cannot bend that quickly. But it tries to hit me in the shins. I have not tried the idea of cutting from the top to throw stuff away from me. But I think that may increase the danger of kickback, as there may be some unseen stuff in a tangle of branches and brambles.