Humboldt vs. Conventional

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crackajeff

crackajeff

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Does anyone know why a the conventional face cut method is the most common in the East and the humboldt is very rarely seen? The only thing I can think of is maybe trying to keep stump sprouts on a flat growing surface, but that doesn't seem like much of a reason to me. Any ideas?
 
joesawer

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The biggest reason, beside getting the butt on the ground quicker, I can think of is that on bigger trees and on steep ground it is a great advantage if your face cut falls out on its own instead of having to wrestle it out. Also it keeps you from having to cut the butt square after it has been cut down saving a lot of cutting at the end of the day.
 
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slowp
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Humbdolt , gives more direction ... and will leave a flush butt . PNW mills need that.

The biggest reason, beside getting the butt on the ground quicker, I can think of is that on bigger trees and on steep ground it is a great advantage if your face cut falls out on its own instead of having to wrestle it out. Also it keeps you from having to cut the butt square after it has been cut down saving a lot of cutting at the end of the day.

Ummmm, it doesn't make the butt square enough. I still find a cookie at each tree. But not a very thick one.
 
chevytaHOE5674

chevytaHOE5674

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Our mills don't require square butts as most of the notch will come off in the slabs when sawing at the mill. So a conventional notch gets you a couple more inches of butt log off the stump.
 
madhatte

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Humbolts are also easier to do, and are more forgiving regarding dutchmen and other such errors.

Conventional faces are easier to teach, so it's a good method for learning, but much harder to match corners up. Also, when cutting rotten, burning, or otherwise compromised wood, cutting the angle before the gunning cut can sometimes save a pinched bar. That's one I would much rather have learned from somebody else than on my own, on a fire. I ended up pulling it through on the dawgs, no face, no holding wood, and just watching the top when it tipped and skedaddling to safety. It was pretty hairy there for a few moments.

Open-face notches really don't have much place in my world, except for when I have to bore the face of something small with a heavy lean and I want to get a wedge in back. In that case the bigger opennig can be a help.
 
Jacob J.
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In addition to the above, :agree2:

Conventional cuts are good on flat ground when you're under the gun to make lower stumps (in a commercial scenario.)

I am/was a Humboldt guy for years because it was the West Coast thing to do. I started working for a logger up on the Santiam and the ground was fairly flat and the wood was real good. He royally chewed me out the first day for wasting wood on flat ground with the Humboldt face. I tried telling him it was all the same but he wouldn't listen. :)

That being said, both have their place and the main reason I see more the of the conventional being used back East is a cultural thing. When I was with one of the big helicopter outfits, we sent guys back East and they had good luck with the Humboldt in eastern hardwoods for the most part.

The last few jobs I worked on, we didn't have to flush the butts, just trim the whiskers off. The whiskers would fool the laser sensors on the processors. In the smaller timber, sometimes we'd stay on the stump while it started to go and get the holding wood cut up real tight so's it'd break off clean.
 
RandyMac

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The old Orygun cut has it's place, it's great when you need to cut low on a tree with butt swell, swollen butt.... I think I should stop there.

oaksstump.jpg


Picture020.jpg
 
371groundie

371groundie

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the humbolt tends to push the tree away from you. a very good thing on steep ground when its hard to make a get away.

the conventional will allow the tree to jump the stump backwards. not a big deal if youre terrain allows you to make a good escape.

open face keeps the hinge intact all the way down, so the tree doesnt jump at all. however it will somtimes break a slab off the log if not done correctly. not a big deal in pulpwood, but it can break you in high value wood.

i know how to do them all, i use them all depending on the situation. i use the open face the most.
 
RandyMac

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the humbolt tends to push the tree away from you. a very good thing on steep ground when its hard to make a get away.

the conventional will allow the tree to jump the stump backwards. not a big deal if youre terrain allows you to make a good escape.

open face keeps the hinge intact all the way down, so the tree doesnt jump at all. however it will somtimes break a slab off the log if not done correctly. not a big deal in pulpwood, but it can break you in high value wood.

i know how to do them all, i use them all depending on the situation. i use the open face the most.

Having a tree go over backwards is no big deal? Stay away from me.
 
bitzer

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Humbodlts save out more wood in steep terrain by getting the butt down first. They are also easier to swing and to get the butt to kick off one side or the other. Conventionals are used on flat land hardwoods to cut as tight to ground as possible although I'd say that its a toss up. I think it is also a cultural thing, just like short bars. Some of us east and (mid) coasters are trying to kill those myths though. Humboldts are more fun to me, but I often end up putting a little scarf or snipe in em to keep the face from closing to early or to get them jumping. All the faces have their time and place. Just more tools in the bag and when to use them.
 
joesawer

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I am not convinced the humbolt keeps the the tree from jumping the stump any better than any other face cut.
The only reason any tree comes behind the stump is because something pushes it there. I am not sold on stump shot either.
 
380LGR

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I have no use for the hembolt here only on very steep ground when I dont care where the trees going. The conventional or open face is much more safer and the tree only goes where I want it to.
 
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