Husky two rings or one?

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

confused

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
May 29, 2001
Messages
404
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Hey HuskyMan and etc...

I have a know it all father that seems to believe what some mechanic told him about husky's. The mechanic told him Stihls are better because they have two piston rings vs the husky with only one. Now I do believe Stihl is better but i dont want to win on this kind of engineering blunder. Please husky fans tell me that husky pro saws have two rings if for only so that I can tell my father he is wrong yet again. Dont get me wrong guys I love my Dad but its one thing to say you know something and know what you talking about, but quite another to just say something and not know anything about it forsure.

Thanks
confused
 
Is that on all saws or just pro? I ask this because as far as i know (which isnt all that much) is that Stihl has only one saw that doesnt have two piston rings in it.

confused
 
There were/are a couple of Stihls that have one ring. The number
of rings has nothing to do with their propensity to burn up, other
design features are to blame. Stihl is guilty of the same sins on
their consumer grade models as well. I don't want to fight with
anyone, but there seems to always be more Huskies than Stihls
in any shop's junkpile.
Fish
 
The whole one ring two ring thing, like everything else, is blown out of proportion in my opinion. Are two rings better than one? Probably. Does that make all one ring saws junk? Of course not. Two rings is better than one in a dusty environment. One ring saws have less friction and accelerate faster all other things being equal. The 55 is one of the most durable saws avail for the money and it only has one ring. Anyone says it is junk they can meet me out back. Stihl has had more than one saw with one ring, though I will admit I think Husky has tried it more often. Gypo Logger has a saw with no rings, a Remington mighty might!
 
Howdy,

I was requested by John Lambert up north, to stick my twobits in on this one. I don't see why, as it appears the ground is well covered. Personally, I'd use a single narrow ring in a racing machine, but for anything to seriously cut wood under field conditions, I would strongly prefer two rings, just for sake of durability under more marginal conditions to be expected.

Yes, you can get more speed out of a single ring piston and even a mite more power. But if you have questionable air filtration, as is the case with most chainsaws that seem to do this, then you should expect shorter life. The faster the speed, the more effeciently the dirt works. Those seldom needing cleanning air filters gain this feature, by allowing the bug dust through! (Only the larger critters are separated out by cyclone filtration's centrifical effect, since the heavier stuff gets thrown further!)

Remember, higher speed also means lubrication is spun off of the main bearings to a greater degree. In practice, bearings will usually go quite dry at speeds above 15,000 RPM, and begin to experience this phenominon at speeds above 13,500.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
Off On A Tangent

Hi Walt, Russ here, and glad to see you posting. I agree with your reasoning on having two standard rings rather than one for an everyday saw, but how did you determine that most saws that run only one ring also have marginal air filtration. If we are talking department store saws, sure, you`re right. But what I read here is a thinly disguised cheap shot at Husky`s Air Injection with the reference to centrifugal force. Of course the larger particles with a higher mass develop a higher kinetic energy to overcome the vacuum at the intake to the engine, but the smaller particles are affected as well. I believe that your message implies that it is more effective and thus beneficial to have larger particles impinging themselves on the filter, thus blocking passage of smaller particles. This is partially true but it doesn`t see the whole picture, large irregularly shaped particles generally have large voids between them. Any mechanical filter has a threshold size particle that it will pass, let`s say 1 micron for this example, when new and clean. The efficiency of this filter can be substantially increased by foreign material being trapped on the surface. You may be able to filter a particle as small as .5 micron on a used filter because the smaller particles lock more closely together. If your were to take a yard of #2 stone and a yard of sand, what gives the highest filtration efficiency? The sand of course. The voids between the larger particles are too big to aid filtration and you get what is known as channeling. The real proof is how much crud do you see in the intake. I haven`t noticed any substantial difference between Stihl and Husky. Has anyone else, other than one particular saw or filter of any brand? You might see breakthrough sooner on an Air Injected saw sooner if the filter is not maintained properly because of the increased differential pressure created. But that is just abuse anyway. Too many people assume they don`t have to maintain their filter with Air injection. Air Injection is only meant to increase the cleaning interval, not eliminate it. This is a valid enough issue that Stihl came up with their own, although somewhat more dubious solution. Intellicarb increases the lenth of the interval also, but at the expense of engine horsepower. Any carb that reduces the amount of fuel to the engine based on gross air flow, as indicated by filter differential pressure, is lowering the output power of that engine. I think Stihl is still smarting because Husky`s solution is actually almost supercharging the engine. RPMs are not always a bad thing either, and Husky doesn`t have "the rights" to high rpm saws. Most comparable Stihls run in the same range. Maintenance is just alot more crucial with these saws, but they pretty much the Pro saws anyway. If you got the bucks to lay down, you should learn how to take care of it. I`m betting I get some feedback and I`m all ears if it makes sense and it`s not just emotion speaking. Russ
 
Howdy,

I'd say that to say Husky is "almost supercharging the engine" is stretching the truth somewhat. No, I don't believe that being more than a little skeptical of the spin doctoring that seems to be in vogue these days, is "bashing" anyone. My comment on the air filtration was based on observation of sandblasted (grey) piston skirts, and built up crud in the crankcases, due to those mesh filters. Right now I am studying what goes on with a Jonsreds "Turbo" watching this. (Jonsreds was the originator of this idea, and Husky originally rejected it!).

As for "intellecarb", Let's say that I don't find it all so intelligent mabe after all. Perhaps using it with prestretched chain helps. Now don't start on this one! I agree that Stihl's initial stretch is 50% less, but it is not due to "prestretching". The pulling on the chain to distort the rivet hole-fill in the name of seating the rivet, is not the factor at work here.
You got to admit, the wordsmithing is masterful however. Almost as good as lubrilink. The real facts are the chain is made of better stuff, to closer tolerances and attention to manufacturing details. Unfortunately that does not seem to make such great copy.

Basically, I find that anyone who files and maintains chain correctly, can get along with most any of them. It's dull chain that generates the most bug dust, and bug dust packed into an air cooled engine (inside and out) is not a good thing.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
Aren't the Husqvarna, Poulan and Jonsered's blue snorkel pretty
much the same design? They sure look it.
Fish
I guess Husky has changed to a black snorkel these days. I don't
believe any "ramcharging" of the engine is really happening, maybe a little.
 
Hi Walt, I guess my Norwegian tact and diplomacy may have shown through in my earlier post. Thank you for the cordial reply. I really didn`t intend for anyone to take my statement that " Husky almost supercharges..." as literal. It is a generalized statement refering to the fact that atmospheric pressure at engine intake is higher with a "Turbo" or "Air Injected" saw. Pressure being what it is, wants to equalize, and with a handy vacuum right there, we see what happens. Walt, I know of your vast experience throughout the chainsaw industry worlwide, and I as well as many others have benefited from your generosity with your knowledge. Now I have to ask the question, last I knew, you were working for a saw shop whose main line is Stihl. If this is still true, how many sanblasted Jonsered or Husky skirts have you seen recently. I`m only asking about current vintage saws. I know that objective observation often tests scientific theory. Since I consider you very knowledgable in the chainsaw field, I`m wondering what you`re seeing that relates to current models. Russ:confused:
 
Nope, not much current information. I am currently maintaining (the routine maintainence) on a 2051 that sees rather heavy use by the local chainsaw grandma, who is currently cutting christmas trees and the odd load of firewood. This situation is less than a good example, since I have her under instruction to stop as soon as th e chain looses self feed, and either change to the spare chain, or bring in the saw. Her alternate saw is a Dolmar 1500 that I rebuilt for her for a spare. It is setup with one of those new Stihl low kickback RM chains. She hates it, since "it does not cut over the nose". I ground the tops off of the safety tang to the factory witness line, but she still objects. I guess that loop will have to go to the wall-pin collection and something more reasonable put on. I just have had zero success getting people to use these new chains since they have gone so radical on the kickgback reduction. I am beginning to come to the conclusion that they may create more accident scenarios than they prevent kickbacks!

I am no longer working at the shop, that was just a temporary thing to help out during the summer months, that stretched into the fall a bit due to much increased buisness this year. Currently, I am on an engineering fieldtest project for a manufacturer on an independent contractor "consulting" basis. A new product that must remain confidential.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
I dont blame grandma one bit. The .043 rm chains are worthless to me. I was not aware of any manufacturers "pre-stretching" chains, but I guess it was only a matter of time before that started. Who is worse, Stihl or Oregon?
 
Hi There, with regards to filtering systems, the Husky Turbo Charge does just that, it drives particles of bug dust thru the filtre at an incredible velosity. We have all heard of the stem of straw that is driven into the trunk of a tree during a hurricane.
Turbo charging means more power but the filtering system determines the longevity of a saw. Turbo charging is an asset during wet and humid weather as it atomizes water particles, thus making it easier for the engine to ingest moisture without water score to the intake side.
This is why Stihl isnt chosen much by the West coast logger. A Husky can simply drink more water, however an Arctic model of Stihl with a heated carb will get around the water and powder snow thing.
The first weak link in a saw is the metering diaphram of the carb, so the faster the saw revs, the sooner the diaphram becomes stretched, thus slowing down the efficiency of a saw, which indirectly may cause and compensate for dirty filtres, causing the saw to run richer and slower.
The thing to do to keep life in a saw is to clean the filtre regularly and replace that 50 cent diagram when the saw doesnt seem up to snuff, along with all the other things a saw likes and needs.
Thanks for posting Walt and everyone else, your words of wisdom inspires provocative thought.
John Lambert
 
just curious - dont really know anything about the fact that air injection helps in humid conditions - but this does not make sense to me:

"Arctic model of Stihl with a heated carb will get around the water and powder snow thing"

why - if the humidity, snow, water is in the carb its too late - right no friggin heater i have ever heard of can evaporate the forementioned in the carb - were spinning at 13K here - the only evaporation is happening on the outside of the muffler and the jug. correct?!?:confused:
 
Hi Tundra, this is the job of the airbox with any saw. Warm air is driven here from the jug by the flywheel, however, along with the warm air is driven other things such as moisture, snow, dirt and bugdust. Most saws have a little closable door in the airbox that allows entry of warmer air from the cyl. during colder temps.
When colder wet air is driven at high velosity thru the venturi it will actually freeze causing starting and running problems. The saws with heated carbs solve this problem by further warming and atomizing the moisture, thereby allowing the saw to drink it up. Some saws were built with the airbox directly above a horizontal cyl. which aids in the warming of the air going into the carb. Some saws can be fitted with a preheating kit that allows only warm air to be drawn around the cyl., which prevents airfiltre and carb. icing.I have on occasion put a bit of gasline antifreeze into the fuel so that water wouldnt freeze on the fuel pickup of the tank.
Hope this helps,
John
 
I just popped the muffler of an early 371XP that I am packaging up for a new owner. This saw has only one piston ring and it still presses up over 145psi. Looking through the exhaust port, everything looks as cleans as a whistle and she runs strong. I don`t know the exact hours on it, but rest assured it is many. So although one ring theoretically is inferior to two, I didn`t see any shortcomings here. I didn`t see any "high velocity dug bust" or "sandblasted skirts" either. Just thought some of you might like to know. If anyone is really curious, let me know within the next twenty four hours and I could try to get a picture. Russ
 
Whatever coating on the cylinder or how many rings are usually
irrelevant. A saw prone to air leaks will burn up a piston/cylinder
irregardless of how many rings or what coating it has.
Fish
 
About the filters, Does anyone here know the efficiency of the air filters that are available today? I am currently dealing with a filteration problem on aircraft, and wonder if any of the filter manufacturers actually give a Beta Ratio for their filters? Its fine to say our filters filter down to 1 micron, but if the Beta Ratio is low, you may only be capturing 10% of that particle size. Which makes it as efficient as a screen door.

Mike:confused:
 
I deliberatly replied to this thread, as it now places me ahead of Dennis in my #of replies on AS. Isn't that a claim to fame, or should I get a life?
John
 

Latest posts

Back
Top