Unless you come across a good deal on OEM!
Huztl MS660
- Thread starter Kyler Monares
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Unless you come across a good deal on OEM!
I did a little cutting with the huztl 660 this evening. It goes through pine like butter! It's idling a little high and the idle adjustment doesn't always fix it. I'm concerned about an air leak but the plug is dark brown when I check it. Also my decomp plastic black piece is in the woods somewhere.
Idle or low speed screw not doing anything? I'm assuming the carb seats nice to the rubber intake boot and the little metal "ring" is seated well too. I had some of those carbs simply not work well on idle, someone else here mentioned that the throttle plate on his was a bit off....me? I swapped to walbro's....problem gone. I doubt an air leak is your issue. Also swapped to an OEM decomp along with chain adjuster and intake boot & impulse line. An Oregon clutch drum as well as now I'm beginning to "lean" on that saw & rely on it more so it matters. Cleaned things up a bit..worth an eBay excursion to detail out those saws. Mine is still running quit well.
The idle screw. The low adjuster seems to be working fine. I'm going to run it more tomorrow on several trees. I think I will change out the decomp to OEM. My drum is out of round but it seems to be working.
What was your issue with the intake boot and impulse line?
I appreciate the pioneering work you did on these saws and all the documentation. I mostly likely would not have gone down this path it you had not been the trailblazer. I'm glad I did.
BTarb24
ArboristSite Member
It's seeming like if you plan on using the huztl decomp then you should also plan to epoxy it before you install it. I finally got around to doing mine last night. The only thing that was unexpected was that the epoxy creates an air seal and so the cap wont stay on the stem. I even spun it in circles for a good 30 seconds and it still would just spring back off due to the trapped air pressure. Drilling a tiny hole in the side of the cap solved the problem though.
Be sure that excess epoxy doesn't gather under the cap since that will reduce the travel of the decomp stem.
The material on the OEM versions seems better; that coupled with having to add a safety wire the pulse line on the cylinder end of the 56mm version as it popped off & my experiences with the various AM intake boots for Husqvarna 372's made me decide to play the odds with OEM for those parts.
One thing I had said early on about the MS660 experience seems to be playing out here. That is attitude & goals going into the projects effect perceptions as the project progresses. I went into this seeing this as a puzzle building a saw I didn't particularly need looking to learn about Stihl's and just do what I do working my way through problems until I built something interesting. I expected a challenge. I expected to have to do some research. I also expected issues with AM sources and parts almost wanting to build a video worthy "hand grenade". I wasn't expecting an OEM quality saw at the end of it. It was a lot of fun and I documented it real time on the channel.
What I ended up with was something much easier to build than expected, with just a few AM parts I needed to swap to OEM for a capable saw, and I learned a lot while having a great experience. Had I went into this expecting OEM for a third the price, I may have been disappointed, maybe; but even that depends. The 56mm is easily a match in power to an OEM 660 if not more. The cleaned up 54mm is about a match as well. Certainly 90cc performance for $300 plus my hobby time. How do you beat that! Of course Huztl has provided kits for those with a sense of adventure, built short blocks and even long blocks for those less ambitious. If you are nervous about bottom ends, seals, cranks, and pullers, start with a long block! Add plastic and details. Combine that with mixing and matching parts from OEM and other AM sources and you have a virtual smorgasbord to build 90cc saws. Dollars the priority, stick with Huztl. Performance, blend in more OEM. My 56mm version has working its way into my "work saw" rotation because of its performance. Not price. It's awesome. Plus I built it. And had a lot of fun doing so..
For those "hobbyists" who want to quantify their time, $300 dollars or so in parts plus time....say $350 for labor you still have $650 saw that performs like a $900 dollar saw. To me the metrics go along these lines.....anyone looking for a "main stream" OEM quality of saw and service should.... buy OEM! Anyone who wants to be an OEM by buying assembling and selling finished saws need to go through the investment in terms of building a test program, service plan, and parts sources that accomplish repeatable and serviceable saws......but then you will also have the EPA and other issues like the statistics of warrantee and liability to deal with. THAT path makes absolutely no sense to me as by the time you are done figuring out all that, you will be priced as a typical 90cc OEM saw would cost and who's going to spend that much on a copy for near OEM prices without the OEM level of service and support? OEM's are in the business of providing that "total" environment, your not going to be able to compete with a company like Stihl when all the factors are considered. They are damn good at their business. Those looking for that "total" package need to go where its done right.....Stihl. (Or Husqvarna, Echo, Makita, etc.) That's probably about 99 percent of the saw using population.
Now for a capable & experienced in saw handling hobbyist, $300 of AM and OEM blended parts, be it starting from a blown up OEM saw or going the other direction and tactically blending OEM parts with AM to get a useful and reliable build makes a LOT of sense... this for that small percentage of CAD afflicted & capable individuals. The assembly time is effectively the hobby time without dollars attached. The final build can be tweaked, have parts replaced with either other AM or OEM to increase performance & reliability to the desired level over time...all a part of having a "do it yourself" ownership in the saw, a sense of ownership in the results, and if you are like me, that's way more important than how much "bling" you can buy and brag about. For THAT role in this hobby, these MS660's are hard to beat. So much potential. So many parts options...like the Big Block Chevy of the chainsaw world. Should I ever need another one, I would thank Huztl for putting in the effort to make this available as a saw option. Selling kits vs. having to muddle your way through is worth something all by itself. This thread has also helped those who are "CAD" motivated as you folks have helped itemize and quantify what is required to build one from scratch filling in some of the blanks I certainly left from the video series.
And to those who would compare the results to an "out sourced" ported OEM saw of any size.... what would you end up with if you let those saw builders use the same amount of time/money/resource starting from a Huztl bottom end and plastic? Using a top end and carb of their choice? You would start by having an extra $500 bucks over even a 461 to spend! That's the reality if you really want to compare....its resource to resource expended comparing the end results that matters.
That's my rant. BTW to T-bone (Bed - "T" ?
I know you have a sense of humor! ) and all the others who have put in the effort and information into this thread THANK YOU! Awesome thread. Lots of good solid information here. Really looking forward to how the different builds morph over the years... And PLEASE keep safety as a priority & wear PPE's all the time, especially in the video's where folks might be inspired to follow your path .. I'm going to start UPGRADING my PPE's....that's "bling" worth buying and bragging about! Any suggestions on what's the best Helmet & Chaps you can buy are both requested and welcome! Would be nice if that was also threaded into the resultant video's safety tips and the best PPE's. So..an open question to all participating.. WHATS your PPE's preferences and what are you currently using? I have Husqvarna Chaps, Either a Stihl or Ahlborn's Helmet. Red Wing Irish Setter Steel Toe Shoes, Either Husqvarna or Forester Gloves. I'm LOOKING for a Helmet option with a chin strap along with face mask & ear protection. Anyone know of an option like that? Had a small branch knock a standard helmet off...then the second part hit testing "hair" for protection with predictable results. But it was a wake up call. Also saw the results when a fellow got lazy with "tip" control on a 90 cc saw and took it to the face....no mask. A year of plastic surgery later is trying to re engage with life. I want a better face protection option!( It really bother's me when those supposed experts skimp on the safety side of running saws....and these are BIG saws! I certainly will try to do better....and maybe add to the video's the safety gear used along with the saw info .. make that as much a priority as the things special about a particular saw)
This is an item that you're going to want to get right. Once the little black cap comes off it's very, very easy for the decomp valve stem to drop into the combustion chamber. The cap on mine popped off during a cold start on day 2 so I replaced it with a plug.
I ran several of my saws today.
Huztl ms660 56mm
Stihl ms440 stock
Stihl 044 big bore
Stihl 361 stock
Stihl ms390 stock
Before the huztl ms660 started have high idle issues it was cutting strong. Strongest of all the others. I'm still chasing the idle issue.
The big bore 044 has only 135 psi if I remember correctly. The guy I bought it from took offense when I told him it had low compression. I would not have purchased it except it came with a 28", 25", and a 20" bar with two chains for each. All for $450. It runs fine but l figure I could refresh the top at some point.
The ms440 ran great. Somehow the carb adjuster limiters fell off somewhere.
The 361 ran strong too. For the soft wood I was in today, it was the best choice.
The ms390 cut well. I could notice that it could not handle as much force in the cut.
I wanted to get more time on the huztl 660 but I need the figure out the idle issue tonight. The plug still looks brown. The idle is very fast and the clutch is fully engaged. The idle issue did not appear until about 1/2 tank. The high speed adjustment screw was very bent when I received the kit. I did straighten it but I wonder if there is air getting through. I checked the carb seat on the boot - it looked good. I checked the boot clamp on the cylinder - it tightened a little but l looked good.
Hopefully I'll find something tonight.
Huztl ms660 56mm
Stihl ms440 stock
Stihl 044 big bore
Stihl 361 stock
Stihl ms390 stock
Before the huztl ms660 started have high idle issues it was cutting strong. Strongest of all the others. I'm still chasing the idle issue.
The big bore 044 has only 135 psi if I remember correctly. The guy I bought it from took offense when I told him it had low compression. I would not have purchased it except it came with a 28", 25", and a 20" bar with two chains for each. All for $450. It runs fine but l figure I could refresh the top at some point.
The ms440 ran great. Somehow the carb adjuster limiters fell off somewhere.
The 361 ran strong too. For the soft wood I was in today, it was the best choice.
The ms390 cut well. I could notice that it could not handle as much force in the cut.
I wanted to get more time on the huztl 660 but I need the figure out the idle issue tonight. The plug still looks brown. The idle is very fast and the clutch is fully engaged. The idle issue did not appear until about 1/2 tank. The high speed adjustment screw was very bent when I received the kit. I did straighten it but I wonder if there is air getting through. I checked the carb seat on the boot - it looked good. I checked the boot clamp on the cylinder - it tightened a little but l looked good.
Hopefully I'll find something tonight.
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See if the pulse line blew partially off. Mine did, Still had to chase the idle a bit after replacing that with an OEM & using safety wire to crimp it on the cylinder end. Then swapped carbs and it was way better. Switched to a Walbro and its been much better. Only have to tweak the carb for seasonal changes now.. BTW ny 56mm was worth picking at to get it right. Its a beast.
Trboxman showed me this type clamp for those hoses. Very nice.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390924780687?_mwBanner=1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390924780687?_mwBanner=1
I agree the impulse line is questionable. On mine, the case end fit tightly on the case side barb. Its the end that slips on the carb fitting that does not seem to be a tight fit.
Last night I stripped the 660 down. I found a questionable setup of the carb boot and the metal support ring around the outside. Maybe the boot was pinched here a little. I found the metal boot clamp on the cylinder could take a couple of turns. I also found the cylinder bolts could take a 1/8 turn.
I also took the muffler off to check the bolts and look at the exhaust side of the piston. Everything looked good.
This morning, after adjusting the carb, it fired up and ran through a tank without issue. I set the carb very rich and never really worked it hard (I was cutting up a 14 inch balsam fir. I could set the spikes and crank hard on the saw without any hesitation.
I also ran a few more saws yesterday evening. A Shindaiwa 757, Jonsered 2083ii, and a Echo CS-590. The Shindaiwa ran great with lots of power. It was slower than the Stihl I was running. The 2083 was powerful but very heavy. I didn't run it much since I don't have the chain brake working and I am alone with nobody around for quite some ways. The Echo was smooth but it's power reminded me of my Husqvarna 455's- not impressive after you've run a 660 clone.
Oh, and here's the view where I am cutting.
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In advance of the additional kits showing up:
My 10 year old daughter rolled up on me while I was taking the pic and asked: "why are those bars so small Dad? Shouldn't they be 3' or so for the kit saw?". That cracked me up. Even after I explained to her that these would mostly be used for firewood she still wasn't buying that a 20" bar was big enough to be run on those saws....
See, even a 10 year old knows not to put a short bar on a saw like that unlike them eastern boys.....lol.
See, even a 10 year old knows not to put a short bar on a saw like that unlike them eastern boys.....lol.
It was nice of you not to phrase that as "even a 10 year old girl..." that might have caused some hurt feelings.
All kidding aside, unless you've cut trees on both coasts it's difficult to understand some of the preferences and equipment choices driven by the type of wood being cut. With that said, there aren't many folks cutting down 3' or bigger trees anymore on either coast. I'd still rather use my MS362 with a 20" bar than the 660 clone with a 20" bar simply because it's lighter and the speed doesn't matter enough to me. I'll still use the crap out of the 660 cause it's fun and fast...
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