Huztl MS660
- Thread starter Kyler Monares
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The one that my buddy is running seems to oil ok. Not near as much as my 064 but not much does. It oils just as good not running. Lol
I just added all of the parts up to a total of $512. That's without bolts, screws and what ever else is missing. Looks like it would be cheaper and better for the long run to buy a genuine used 090.
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Is this a source of those older "square" base 56mm kits?? or are these the same as those "junk" ones I had from another source...not liking the big chamfer taking sealing surface away in the pic though..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-56mm-Big-Bore-Cylinder-Piston-Assembly-kit-fit-for-Stihl-066-MS660-Chainsaw/172412802818?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=2220071&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=38530&meid=4c0877f87b594a70ad71be44f37a74f6&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=222357844246
I have seen at least five obvious different variants in these 56mm top ends now...
, really prefer the first ones I had got from Huztl 1.2, 2 years ago although just got one from Definitive Dave's store that is of the same casting style as the new Huztls, only everything is concentric. I Have to admit while the current batch from Huztl may not be as pretty, as demonstrated by "bling saw", they run just fine. I See the new "velocity" stack. Gen two has grooves to help hold the air filter it seems.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...-Elf-Velocity-Stack-Made-in-USA-/322251934455
AND BTW the only way to see what I was concerned about with clutch drum run out is measuring from the bore axis for the bearing relative to outside diameter of the drum and splines for the sprocket. Thats whats critical anyway. If the bearing bore axis is either off center and axially out of alignment, the resultant "distance" change with crank rotation, the chain from a slightly loose to slightly tighter state every revolution...like mine did. I did notice...so I kept adjusting to make it work as I needed to cut & just grab a work saw as time is compressed. Figured...what the hell can't hurt much. Ran that for a while. Took a while and maybe it didn't matter. Maybe it did, either way last weekend the roller tip on the bar came apart. Granted bore cutting may have effected this and everything was icy and dirty. But that wobble couldn't have helped.
In retrospect, having that part concentric probably lessens the stress on both the bar and the main bearings...so maybe over analyzing...(who me??) but I am choosing to check each one now and or just go to a better option. I had a little tantrum and bought one from the local Stihl dealer..posted here with predictable results...lol, So.....how many of these builds have enough time on them to wear out a couple of chains? Thats a poll I would be interested in seeing. In my little set, the ones I personally use and the couple I have "lent" out there are 3 of the 4 I keep track of that not only have worn out a few chains, (Definition of worn out is filed to the point where you can't file or sharpen them anymore and they go to the scrap bin) but one has now blown up a bar tip...impatient operator error? or mechanical failure...that is the question. My answer....take away variables that common sense say my increase the chance of failure. Be interesting to hear for you folks as time goes on the experience and things that actually wear and/or fail in the actual service life over time. So far with mine the plastic get ugly unless plenty of pledge & elbow grease is applied and that rubber piece on top between the covers gets a hole worn in it, the decomps loose their plastic piece, and the sprockets wear pretty fast. But those saws make chips in a hurry!
Yet another little tib bit of information, I went back to a couple of the 660's to check the chain adjust...and the case castings on the ones I didn't have issues with had....predictably smaller slots. AND to add confusion, ONE of the earliest ones still had the AM adjuster and the SHAFT diameter was actually large to the point (Same dia as OEM) it didn't make sense to add either an OEM adjuster or a bushing on that saw. Then I had a run of threes where the AM adjusters failed immediately but OEM adjusters worked perfectly so there is and was no reason to add a bushing, this when I was putting together video's. So to this point in time only ONE of five actually needed a bushing. Of course it was this latest build and therefore representative of the current cases. I put a bushing anyway on the other "frequently used 56mm saw" that has a OEM adjuster and...its tighter but might be a solution to a problem it didn't have. SO like the clutch drums, and the cylinders, this is one of those deals where its possible you actually don't need to change things as these things are a constantly moving target, but if you do solutions are there and relatively easy. ME?? Once burned, twice shy. I just hard code into the next build the worst case lessons from the last. OEM adjuster, Better Clutch drum....AND a bushing in the adjuster if required. Looks to me a bushing might make the AM usable supported by a prior post here from someone who has done that. Save a few bucks?? why not. If it wears....then there always is OEM for better metal and if the case casting has those wider slots...a bushing.
What an AWESOME jigsaw puzzle these things are, don't you think so?? After the shop is built, hoping to try a "038" kit.. Looks to me like this "project" is in good hands... Time to move on.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-56mm-Big-Bore-Cylinder-Piston-Assembly-kit-fit-for-Stihl-066-MS660-Chainsaw/172412802818?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=2220071&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=38530&meid=4c0877f87b594a70ad71be44f37a74f6&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=222357844246
I have seen at least five obvious different variants in these 56mm top ends now...
, really prefer the first ones I had got from Huztl 1.2, 2 years ago although just got one from Definitive Dave's store that is of the same casting style as the new Huztls, only everything is concentric. I Have to admit while the current batch from Huztl may not be as pretty, as demonstrated by "bling saw", they run just fine. I See the new "velocity" stack. Gen two has grooves to help hold the air filter it seems.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...-Elf-Velocity-Stack-Made-in-USA-/322251934455
AND BTW the only way to see what I was concerned about with clutch drum run out is measuring from the bore axis for the bearing relative to outside diameter of the drum and splines for the sprocket. Thats whats critical anyway. If the bearing bore axis is either off center and axially out of alignment, the resultant "distance" change with crank rotation, the chain from a slightly loose to slightly tighter state every revolution...like mine did. I did notice...so I kept adjusting to make it work as I needed to cut & just grab a work saw as time is compressed. Figured...what the hell can't hurt much. Ran that for a while. Took a while and maybe it didn't matter. Maybe it did, either way last weekend the roller tip on the bar came apart. Granted bore cutting may have effected this and everything was icy and dirty. But that wobble couldn't have helped.
In retrospect, having that part concentric probably lessens the stress on both the bar and the main bearings...so maybe over analyzing...(who me??) but I am choosing to check each one now and or just go to a better option. I had a little tantrum and bought one from the local Stihl dealer..posted here with predictable results...lol, So.....how many of these builds have enough time on them to wear out a couple of chains? Thats a poll I would be interested in seeing. In my little set, the ones I personally use and the couple I have "lent" out there are 3 of the 4 I keep track of that not only have worn out a few chains, (Definition of worn out is filed to the point where you can't file or sharpen them anymore and they go to the scrap bin) but one has now blown up a bar tip...impatient operator error? or mechanical failure...that is the question. My answer....take away variables that common sense say my increase the chance of failure. Be interesting to hear for you folks as time goes on the experience and things that actually wear and/or fail in the actual service life over time. So far with mine the plastic get ugly unless plenty of pledge & elbow grease is applied and that rubber piece on top between the covers gets a hole worn in it, the decomps loose their plastic piece, and the sprockets wear pretty fast. But those saws make chips in a hurry!
Yet another little tib bit of information, I went back to a couple of the 660's to check the chain adjust...and the case castings on the ones I didn't have issues with had....predictably smaller slots. AND to add confusion, ONE of the earliest ones still had the AM adjuster and the SHAFT diameter was actually large to the point (Same dia as OEM) it didn't make sense to add either an OEM adjuster or a bushing on that saw. Then I had a run of threes where the AM adjusters failed immediately but OEM adjusters worked perfectly so there is and was no reason to add a bushing, this when I was putting together video's. So to this point in time only ONE of five actually needed a bushing. Of course it was this latest build and therefore representative of the current cases. I put a bushing anyway on the other "frequently used 56mm saw" that has a OEM adjuster and...its tighter but might be a solution to a problem it didn't have. SO like the clutch drums, and the cylinders, this is one of those deals where its possible you actually don't need to change things as these things are a constantly moving target, but if you do solutions are there and relatively easy. ME?? Once burned, twice shy. I just hard code into the next build the worst case lessons from the last. OEM adjuster, Better Clutch drum....AND a bushing in the adjuster if required. Looks to me a bushing might make the AM usable supported by a prior post here from someone who has done that. Save a few bucks?? why not. If it wears....then there always is OEM for better metal and if the case casting has those wider slots...a bushing.
What an AWESOME jigsaw puzzle these things are, don't you think so?? After the shop is built, hoping to try a "038" kit..
Looks to me like this "project" is in good hands... Time to move on.
So, no comments on the oilers??? Are the just working OK???
I'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed
Huztl gear
Oem gear
Huztl gear
Oem gear
The two I used worked fine for now.
Did your fix cure it on the Huztl gearI'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed
Huztl gear
Oem gear
I'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed
Huztl gear
Oem gear
Problem is there aren't definable....versions of these parts. Just the batches that they are currently selling. So the ones I have that are working with OEM adjusters had smaller slots...and I doubt you will ever see them again, but who knows, you might. My 56mm saw in the video's works just fine with the OEM adjuster and has for over a year now while the original AM wore out within 4 or five tanks and several re-adjusts. Simple as that. Empirical data. Bet that saw has more time than most saws in these threads. and probably as much as many here combined. Take it leave it but thats my real time experience. You are dealing with another batch of product obviously different than mine. All the caliper pictures in the world can't change that or the experience I have had with the saws here, BUT your current experience and solutions can help the folks in this time with the parts sold and available to get theirs moving. Which is why its time for me to move along. Just reporting....simple as that. I literally took five apart last evening to see if they needed bushings...and found ONLY the current one did. SO my data samples cover 2 years. Most from 2014/15 only one 2016. I have 9 built so far. I track 4 have access to 5, the others are available if I go to them. AND my point is what happens next year, the year after? That's why it is a check first, then decide. Really want to see you argue that point...
Why..OEM sometimes is the best way as things ARE more constant from year to year, but now even with OEM there isn't a guarantee. And the funny thing is on my early saws, it turns out in retrospect, it WASN'T the dimensions that created the issue it was the material. Here with this group of parts its the dimensions that exacerbate an already nasty issue, but possibly the current AM parts have a good enough material. A moving target. Bottom line? understand that these are a moving target. AND did you measure the OEM "worm gear" Are both smaller?? If so, then the solution in this time and place is simply to bush the AM's ....which would be a good one. And as an ex manufacturing engineer....I can say the value of these threads are about finding and showing to solutions as they arise, but you can't assume ALL these saws will have ALL those problems exactly as you see them in this point in time. The issue is folks want to think of these as absolutes...they aren't As I've seen with the damn cylinders...this stuff is amorphous. So you may want to be the oracle on this series..but unless you span all the many permutations, all you can be is the oracle of a certain time frame. All good stuff...but some problems solved now might be relevant next year and others may arise. Others may not be there......Why my dealer friends go nuts with this stuff. They want to order a part number and get exactly the same thing day in day, year in year out....not happening here. CERTAINLY not happening with AM supply houses, and as I found with my John Deere tractor even green parts with the Greene name are falling into the abyss of universal AM in Greene boxes....but as I said. Over and out. Obviously its awesome you folks continue to adapt and develop as these things evolve, awesome talent engaged here. Please report real running time and experience as I am interested the service life...wear and tear. Living with them over time. I have two in the "pro logging" world now. One with a guy who sells firewood for a living. I plan to check in time to time with wear updates. Just raw data. looking forward to the war stories and tales of creative genius to make these survive the test of time....That's the problem the AM needs to get right before they sell a product. At least try the product out before they sell it. I don't don't care to be their Guinea pig even though the kit was cheap. A chain adjuster that doesn't work with the gear they supplied or oem is a major problem. If I can't tighten the chain then it's almost trash from my perspective. All I can say for everyone is try it and if it doesn't work try the cheap bushing or come up with something else or deal with a stripped adjuster.
The couple of tanks through mine I thought I would like to see more oil and I was only running a 20 inch bar.
And mine all gush oil. About a one to one ratio with the fuel tanks....and the are GAS hogs...
Have to check that goofy little rubber at the end of the pump...another one of those parts I've seen variations in but to this point they all have worked. Also bars...I have all total brand on mine.
It's a universal issue...I got into these damn things because I was infact doing statistical analysis for a friend. THESE I just stumbled into and here we are. I went away from the 372's because there was just so much junk being sold out there...some totally unusable. I would order the same cylinder from the same supply house...and in three boxes literally had three different cylinders. One actually was OK...the 52mm Huztl. SO that was the genesis of "Huztl 372" and "Cyclops", both my test saws for those 52mm top ends. And I gravitated to Huztl Simply because I ordered several and got the same damn thing! And they all ran pretty well. SO the next question was being Husqvarma/Jonsered and needing a supply source for other brands, and Stihl 046/460-066/660's are very common here, I tried the place I had reasonable success with, by passed the others and landed here with these 660's. Turned out to be reasonably repeatable...and fun. Hence the first video's But by then I already had a year or so time to reflect on these parts...and now things are changing again. I already have more saws and more MS660's than I can possibly wear out in a life time..I don't and won't resell them, so I lend them out to friends and those I do repair work for. That's how I get the best feed back. Problem is I adjust to a saw. So I'm NOT a good test case as I work around issues..and if I like the saw I DON'T CARE therefor am not objective anymore. I like these Farmertec MS660's . A lot. So Moving to acquire the original OEM's for project/restoration/collection saws now as this is a hobby, and the two FT 56mm's are firmly implanted into the work rotation for the foreseeable future. Much to the chagrin of my saw buds. Two 54mm's for back up. Will probably run that set of saw until "Aurthur" says I can't anymore. Time to move along.
I maxed it out. It was oiling adequately. I can't say the bar was dry but nothing like my little echo 400. That little saw sprays a fan of oil from the tip!
Speaking of bars, has anyone tried the Forester Platinum series bars? I just ordered one and it looks nice. It has a single rivet replaceable nose sprocket. It was only $42 shipped.
So I guess a year ago the kits were better? Sounds like their backing up. HUZTL doesn't promo me or give me free parts to test so what I buy and receive is all I have to go on. I will be honest I thought the kit went together better than I expected but I'm not blind to the problems. Who know how many case's were made like mine and 7 other kits I know of like mine. I couldn't care less about them as I'm sure they don't about me and my 3 kits. How about the master control lever and it not stopping at half throttle and goes straight to idle. Is that just my kits.
Different. Not necessarily better. Better in that one spot....and who knows? Next year they can have all that stuff improved. Certainly worth the time to debug as we have all found out. Just as I have said many times, you have to go into these with the expectation there will be little things to work around...AND every one to this point in time HAVE been solvable issues. So for the money along with mechanical skills such as you have, these can be pretty impressive machines.
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