I call B.S. on Stihl. My dyno doesn't lie. MS 461 is king over MS 660

[Brush Ape]

I call B.S. on Stihl.

Sorry I was wrong.

Now apologize to Stihl.

 

[weedkilla]

I call B.S. on Stihl.


Now apologize to Stihl.

Nope. Wrong. The numbers don't matter - except relevant to each other. This 660 didn't produce more power than this 461, on this dyno, no matter how the numbers are corrected.

 

[chadihman]

I call B.S. on Stihl.


Now apologize to Stihl.

What? I was wrong in saying his #s were wrong. My #s are right for my calculations. I have higher torque #s because of the gear reduction to keep my hyd pump happy. 13,000 rpms would never work on a hyd pump. I'll say it again Shaft rpm x torque/5252 = HP. Divide my torque #s by three and that's the engine torque. I'm not looking for a HP # to match Stihls. My dyno was built to compare two saws HP and mod one and retest and find the increase. My 461 wasn't used to bash the 660. Its just the base saw to compare the 660 mods to.

 

[Brush Ape]

I'd own a Stihl MS461 either way. Six horsepower can get a lot of work done.

What's unique about mammals is that if you subject a six horsepower beast to a seven horsepower load, it eventually becomes a seven horsepower beast. If you subject a six horsepower machine to a seven horsepower load, it breaks.

 

[MS460WOODCHUCK]

I just want to see the two saws with 36'' bars buried in wood with the same bar, chain and 7 pin sprocket. That will end the subject of the 461 having more power than the 660 either way it turns out. Does anyone own both models of saws that would be willing to do this?

 

[chadihman]

We all know the 461 stock runs stronger than the beloved 460. Stihl says they both have 6hp. ?????

 

[Mastermind]

I really need that dyno.

 

[blsnelling]

We all know the 461 stock runs stronger than the beloved 460.

We do? Define stronger?

 

[chadihman]

I just want to see the two saws with 36'' bars buried in wood with the same bar, chain and 7 pin sprocket. That will end the subject of the 461 having more power than the 660 either way it turns out. Does anyone own both models of saws that would be willing to do this?

The 660 would win if my two saws were pushed hard into the wood pulling at 7000 rpms. The 461 would win if the saws were cutting at 8000 rpms or higher.

 

[Mastermind]

Great thread Chad!!!!!!!

 

[chadihman]

We do? Define stronger?

Ok... I do... I own both.

 

[blsnelling]

In stock form, probably so. I was thinking ported in my previous reply.

 

[Brush Ape]

The 660 would win if my two saws were pushed hard into the wood pulling at 7000 rpms. The 461 would win if the saws were cutting at 8000 rpms or higher.

How are you gonna keep it cutting faster with the same bar length as the 660 as the RPM increase?

 

[chadihman]

How are you gonna keep it cutting faster with the same bar length as the 660 as the RPM increase?

I give up.... No more of me on this thread. Let it dwindle away

 

[Deets066]

I give up.... No more of me on this thread. Let it dwindle away

Don't take it to heart, you made a pretty bold statement, did you expect anything less? Keep doin what you do, everybody loves hearing this stuff even if they don't agree with it.

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

This is an interesting thread, like the first one you write about yours tests, Chad.

Just an idea, but we all know that there's something weird with the 660's specs, they change all around the world, and that's not only because the australian model have the dual port muffler, the european version is also displayed as stronger than the US version. The US one is probably de-tuned, certainly to meet EPA requirements.

The 461 is a more "modern" saw, and i don't think Stihl made less powerfull recent saws than the old ones (there's some exceptions, i know).

Could the 461 be a way more powerful saw than the specs says? Chad say he tuned both saws by ear, so the saw could be stronger than it was brand new (and tuned from factory to meet EPA's requirements). Am i wrong?

 

[treesmith]

I'm glad you posted either way, Chadihman, definite food for thought and well worth discussing

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Didn't know that they had a regular and a "magnum" 660. Maybe they should call the weaker one a 660 "Yank".

 

[wyk]

I'd own a Stihl MS461 either way. Six horsepower can get a lot of work done.

What's unique about mammals is that if you subject a six horsepower beast to a seven horsepower load, it eventually becomes a seven horsepower beast. If you subject a six horsepower machine to a seven horsepower load, it breaks.

Beasts can break, too...

The 660 would win if my two saws were pushed hard into the wood pulling at 7000 rpms. The 461 would win if the saws were cutting at 8000 rpms or higher.

Cutting wood is all about chain speed, all else being equal as far as chain and bar length, oiler, etc are concerned - If your saw can hold more speed, it will cut faster.

Do not only compare your dyno VS others unless you intend to use that other dyno as a baseline, and even more importantly, do not get caught up in the same thing every one else on AS has - buying in to marketing. Selling a product is 90% marketing, 10% product, so they say. It's not what your product can do but what you can make people think it can do for them. A prime example is fretting over the factory stated horsepower, which could be simply carried over a couple of decades in the 660's case. If your dyno says the 461 is more powerful and produces more torque, and the 461 is faster in 3' wood with a 3' bar than a current ms660, that is a lot of data right there with some merit(assuming the 461 oils that bar...). Is it perfect? Leveling the playing field is nearly impossible, and leaves a big open door for marketing to stuff it's foot into. No - absolutely nothing is perfect. Even the Hubble telescope didn't work quite right when it was first put in to service - and I would think few things on this planet had any more engineering time spent on it than that thing. But what you are doing is important - causing us to rethink marketing speak, engineering speak, and all the data produced by it. Data is important. Having the ability to interpret data is even more important.

 

[wyk]

Don't no but something is up.....the last aussie ms660 mag I got this is what's in the book that came with it.....View attachment 353061

Stihl currently say their 660 Magnum produces 7.1HP on their Aussie website. Imagine how much an engineer with a solid marketing background could do to mess with people's heads...