I have decided I am a heathen at heart.Forgive me!

[Walt41]

You forgot about the FCPEC system...as soon as you arrived and figured out the scam, activate FCPEC and leave. Take you daughter to an amusement park for the day and explain the life lesson to her.

FCPEC=Fake Cell Phone Emergency Call...

 

[CrappieKeith]

You know what Avalancher...just you questioning yourself shows you care.not to mention the hump you put on that job. For me in my not so perfect way I'd have done what you did Av...I'd maybe let a few of my workers know I needed to take a break and leave for some food and bevies. I could hear the...well there's pizza and gatoraide...no the prop owner confiscated that...then I'd pack up my gear and headed to a store only to return to finish up with the daylight left to work by.
When she came out to ask about the other trees...I'd refused...explaining I do not work under unsafe conditions and not having any light to work by is unsafe.I'd had said that if she could schedule another day then the work could be completed...

It always seems the harder you bend over backwards to help someone the more something jumps up to bite you in the bottom. Having said that to volunteer means you take what you get and sometimes that ain't so good. All in all I'd walk away knowing I did a good thing. Sure that woman took advantage and too bad for that. God helps those that help themselves...
At the end of the day Avalancher you can be proud of a job done well.
Chin up...the world is a better place with men like you in it.

As for judging you about being a heathen....that's for God to do.Do not place you faith in men for your eternal life ....God knows your heart and intentions and that you are not perfect. If you think you've messed up...profess your sin..make an effort to change and move on. Do not live in the past but do not forget it either..you can make a difference in others lives just by being yourself.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

All I can say is been there, done that...More times than I care to remember. Ask me why I've become so cynical in my old age.

 

[avalancher]

I agree with the OP.I would have packed up when she stole the pizza.If she came out and had a few slices and BS for a bit that would be different.And taking the gatorade is a scum bag move.Its 100 deg out why not walk around passing them out while you thank people for the help?And seriously does she need her yard cleaned?I say no.You need food/water and shelter.If her roof was bad that would be something needed and something like that is expensive so I can see how volunteering for something like that makes sense but cleaning the yard is just stupid.

I need to clear up some misconceptions I see. First off, the old gal didn't steal anything, she helped herself in plain view of everyone, and that is what puzzled me.Dinner arrived, and we all were called out to the front of the house to eat and she came out of the house, marched to the front of the line, and walked off with a whole pizza box.By the time i got to the front, there was nothing left for me or the three girls behind me.The pastor had counted heads and figured out four folks to a pizza, so since one whole pizza walked off that meant four workers did without.

I raised my eyebrow at that one, and when one of my coworker noticed my look he asked me what the problem was.I mentioned that I along with three other workers came up short on dinner, he just laughed, pointed to the house and said, "well, maybe if you rush in there will be something left." Easy for you to say, I am the one standing here without a thing to eat and haven't eaten since 10am.

The Gatorade was the same thing, she helped herself in plain sight and nobody said a dang thing.And that right there is the point that puzzled me to no end on the whole deal. Why was I the only one bent out of shape?After all, the three girls behind me didn't get a thing to eat, and they weren't angry, and one of the girls was the daughter of our youth coordinator. If someone walked off with my daughters dinner after she had been busting ass for six hours, I would have said something.

Like I said before, I don't really fault the old gal for her actions, I was just left a little speechless at the others reaction, and the fact that we appeared to be helping someone that caused her own problems to boot, didn't appear to be willing to change her ways after we helped, and above all I felt rather chastised for being a little disgruntled about the whole deal. Among this group, I feel like I am the only one that looks with a critical eye at people and events, and it makes me question my own values.Perhaps I am a little to hard hearted, and totally incapable of making allowances for folks.I dunno.

It has been said that a wise man knows who his friends are, and because of that I put this out for everyone to give me their input for I consider everyone here to be a friend. I thank you all for your input, your advise, and above all for your time. I feel that since you all have no vested interest in what was going on over there on the cleanup, your advise carries a little more weight.

I think in the future I need to spend a little more time in evaluating the situation before offering my help in anything but an emergency situation. Storm relief, my saw will always be ready for there is never time to access every person that may need some help. I know in my heart that when I spent two plus weeks in town after our tornado I was treated like a king, a rescuer, and a provider of relief. It was plain to see the look on everyone's faces when we fired our saws and removed the trees off their homes,It was pure gratitude.It warmed the heart, soothed the tired muscles, and fueled the desire to keep plugging on into the wee hours of the night.

And i guess that is the difference isnt it?To help someone that truly needs your help, that is reward enough for any amount of work or sacrifice. Its the others that are just looking for a free ride that gives us our bad taste. Guess I need to work on that, and listen a little more to the little voice that just kept saying, "walk away man,this aint your kinda tea party"

Thanks again everyone for your advise, your counsel,your bits of wisdom, and above all your time.It is truly appreciated.

 

[lone wolf]

Hey Avalancher i need some help here!Can you split wood?

 

[Somesawguy]

I'll put in my two cents here. I'm a Christian, and we attend church regularly. That being said, I don't blame you for how you felt about the situation. She seemed to just be taking advantage of people and ungrateful. I must say that the real insult was stealing your dinner and drinks.

Unfortunately, it's people like that, that make it harder for people to want to help someone out. If the group is that clueless about who they decide to help, then I would simply refuse to help. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time.

Just remember, that most groups,including church groups, will take all the time you're willing to give. People burn themselves out trying to do too much. 10% of the people in a church/group usually do 90% of the work.

Yeah I'm a little jaded about such things myself.

 

[avalancher]

Hey Avalancher i need some help here!Can you split wood?

Absolutely! All I need is.....
a plane ticket to your home(first class please, the stewardess look the other way in first class when I spit sunflower seed and miss my cup.They assume since I am in first class I somebody important like the guy who invented Pringles.Boy, are they wrong)

A logsplitter.You can freight mine along with me as long as you are willing to explain to the airlines why I crated the thing up complete with two little kids.One to operate the lever and one to listen to my outrageous lies.I tell stories when splitting to distract me from the rounds hitting my foot.When he gets tired, I switch em around.Listening to all my lies can be very tiring I have been told.

Some new Levis would be nice.My neighbors have gotten used to seeing my butt cheeks peeking out of mine, your neighbors may not find it amusing.

The latest copy of "Fashion" magazine. It gives me something to laugh at on break times.I find it pretty dang amusing what folks will do to look funny.Why does everyone want to be a comic nowadays, and is it worth all those clothes to be funny?

If your wife cant cook very good, have lots of salsa on hand. Good salsa can cover up even my cooking.

I dont require much for sleeping quarters, your couch will do just fine. Please be aware I sleep walk though, and if your wife is cute I am not responsible for my actions while sleeping.I can provide a very detailed note from my family doctor, Dr.Kevorkian, with a full description of what to expect.If your dog is frightened by sudden loud noises at night, I can bring some of my pills along.

When do you want me to show up?

 

[Somesawguy]

Why so much angst over doing someone a favor?

You are saying more about yourself than that fool woman.








Christian Angst | Facebook

I think the angst is from feeling used. The woman was nothing more than a ungrateful mooch, and a thief.

 

[avalancher]

Why so much angst over doing someone a favor?

You are saying more about yourself than that fool woman.








Christian Angst | Facebook

Treeco, Im sorry...Treebubba...I dont have any angst at all about helping anyone, my topic and source of puzzlement about the entire thing was the reaction of others to getting used by a woman, and going back for more.They seemed alright with the idea of the woman taking our food and drinks even though our working conditions were severe(been watching the news lately?), not bothering to even help clean up her yard even though she appeared to be perfectly capable of pulling a few branches to the road, and above all the whole crowd appeared to be not only willing to go back over there again to work some more, but expected everyone to chip in and buy the paint.
After looking around at the crowd, I wondered, "Why in the hell am I the only one that thinks,"WTF?Now I got to paint her house, and buy the paint too?" on top of all the rest of it?"
Didnt make any sense then, doesnt make any sense now.Made me think, "hmm, 25 people all think this is okay, and we should come back for some more.I dont.Who is wrong here?Why am I the only one pissed I didnt get any dinner, got robbed of our drinks.

Figured it was pretty easy to lay this out here and get a second opinion.If everyone here thought, "Dang Ed, are you for real?You are ticked about a dinner, a few drinks, and some bossy lady?WTF?Get your butt back to work and overlook it all, because you should be helping a woman that needs some help." Then I woulda reckoned that I was just dang wrong and need to adjust my thinking if I could.

But after the advise and bits of wisdom here on AS , I am starting to caste my critical eye back on those who not only enable people like that, but dont have the desire to look things over a little more cautiously. I figure maybe they need to help everyone they can to make them feel better about themselves, I just dont suffer from that myself.

 

[lone wolf]

Absolutely! All I need is.....
a plane ticket to your home(first class please, the stewardess look the other way in first class when I spit sunflower seed and miss my cup.They assume since I am in first class I somebody important like the guy who invented Pringles.Boy, are they wrong)

A logsplitter.You can freight mine along with me as long as you are willing to explain to the airlines why I crated the thing up complete with two little kids.One to operate the lever and one to listen to my outrageous lies.I tell stories when splitting to distract me from the rounds hitting my foot.When he gets tired, I switch em around.Listening to all my lies can be very tiring I have been told.

Some new Levis would be nice.My neighbors have gotten used to seeing my butt cheeks peeking out of mine, your neighbors may not find it amusing.

The latest copy of "Fashion" magazine. It gives me something to laugh at on break times.I find it pretty dang amusing what folks will do to look funny.Why does everyone want to be a comic nowadays, and is it worth all those clothes to be funny?

If your wife cant cook very good, have lots of salsa on hand. Good salsa can cover up even my cooking.

I dont require much for sleeping quarters, your couch will do just fine. Please be aware I sleep walk though, and if your wife is cute I am not responsible for my actions while sleeping.I can provide a very detailed note from my family doctor, Dr.Kevorkian, with a full description of what to expect.If your dog is frightened by sudden loud noises at night, I can bring some of my pills along.

When do you want me to show up?

HaHa sounds like you are trying to get out of it!You were doing good till you brought up the wife and dog!I was kidding as you should know I just wanted to see if you would help.

 

[avalancher]

The idea is to present a testimony and be a witness.....not spread judgement and commendation of the person the church is trying to reach.

What?Did you really say that, or did you copy and paste that from somewhere?You, the self proclaiming atheist are actually stepping in here about a church's mission?

This clean up goes far beyond the scope of helping someone. The need was simple, and if just the need had been addressed we would have been out of there in two hours.The need was, "Clear the ivy off of the house, clear the trees out of the power lines, and establish a pathway around the back of the house so that the homeowner could be covered by an insurance policy."

The NEED did not encompass trimming bushes in the front of the house, removing trees in the front of the house, clearing several large trees and brush over 20 paces from the rear of the house, removing twenty years of accumulated garbage out of the brush and hauling it to the road, and of coarse scraping and painting the dang place.

 

[avalancher]

I thought the 'need' was to bring the woman to Christ?

.....but what would an atheist know about that, eh?

You don't get the point of what the church is doing. Not surprising.

Let me guess, your momma forgot to put cookies in your lunch again, and your pissed at the world.Okay, I can understand that.Sorta.


Hate to break the news to you Treeco, but you dont have to polish out somebody's yard, paint their house, load their fridge up with goodies, and mark yourself as an easy mark to get someone to come to Christ.All God and Christ has ever asked was that a christian be a light unto the world, or in other words, be a good example. Help where you can, but going overboard is doing nothing more than polishing your own trophy.

This I will say with one hundred percent certainty. That woman will never put her foot in the door of our church for anything more than to look around and see what else she can carry off. And to back up what I feel, I will personally PM you and ask for your mailing address and will mail you a gift card to the restaurant of your choice if she proves me wrong.And, I will also dig this thread up and make a public apology to you and admit you were right and i was wrong.

 

[MacLaren]

I thought the 'need' was to bring the woman to Christ?

.....but what would an atheist know about that, eh?

You don't get the point of what the church is doing. Not surprising.

I think you make a great point. You really do. I've noticed in church's that most of what they do is so "self-serving" if you will. And I agree totally that the idea is to bring the woman to Christ.

 

[MacLaren]

Let me guess, your momma forgot to put cookies in your lunch again, and your pissed at the world.Okay, I can understand that.Sorta.


Hate to break the news to you Treeco, but you dont have to polish out somebody's yard, paint their house, load their fridge up with goodies, and mark yourself as an easy mark to get someone to come to Christ.All God and Christ has ever asked was that a christian be a light unto the world, or in other words, be a good example. Help where you can, but going overboard is doing nothing more than polishing your own trophy.

This I will say with one hundred percent certainty. That woman will never put her foot in the door of our church for anything more than to look around and see what else she can carry off. And to back up what I feel, I will personally PM you and ask for your mailing address and will mail you a gift card to the restaurant of your choice if she proves me wrong.And, I will also dig this thread up and make a public apology to you and admit you were right and i was wrong.

I get what your saying too. But he really has a point IMO. But, I guess the main thing is to just love one another and do the best ya can. Which I really know you did. But I certainly question today's church motive in a lot of things.

 

[Somesawguy]

I think you make a great point. You really do. I've noticed in church's that most of what they do is so "self-serving" if you will. And I agree totally that the idea is to bring the woman to Christ.

While I have to agree to a certain extent, and I hope the woman does come to Christ, I think that charity work should be for those that can't help themselves. She's just being lazy.

 

[Richard Dupp]

Just a word of encouragement Avalancher...

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

The word alms is #G1654 in Strong's Concordance...

G1654
ἐλεημοσύνη
eleēmosunē
el-eh-ay-mos-oo'-nay
From G1656; compassionateness, that is, (as exercised towards the poor) beneficence, or (concretely) a benefaction: - alms (-deeds).

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Not saying she was an enemy, but even if she was, we are required to do good and let God take care of things.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

The second half of the verse is seldom quoted, but God says He repays, good for good and evil for evil. Take heart A, and let God sort it out, you did your part.

 

[TreePointer]

C'mon, guys, this doesn't have to evolve into everyone getting up in the preacher pulpit and scoring evangelization points.

There was poor leadership there, and probably by the pastor!

That pizza and gatorade was for the workers. Is it okay if the woman has supper with the workers? Absolutely. It's not okay for her to scarf away an entire pizza and a shirt full of gatorade when there are tired, hungry workers who didn't get any and really need it.

The pastor or some other "elder" should have stepped in (in private so as not to embarrass her) and kindly told the lady that she is welcome to eat with everyone, but that pizza and Gatorade is needed for the workers. I also would have told her that if she would like a pizza and beverages for later, I (or the church) would buy her some, but there are some workers/kids that haven't had any. Allowing poor behavior (even if unintentional or through ignorance) doesn't help the woman (it enables her) and leaves some workers (your flock) hungry.

 

[avalancher]

If you'd pay a little more attention to what the good book says maybe you wouldn't be as you say, "pissed at the world". Do you feel that you are doing your best to be 'Christ like'? It's a rhetorical question of course.

Have you ever noticed you never have anything positive to say about anyone, about anything? That you make a habit of twisting everyone's words to reflect the negative side of everything?

You ever get tired of being you?

 

[smokinj]

You know, I like to help my fellow man as much as anyone else, or at least I thought I did.

Yesterday I participated in a clean up for a local resident sponsored by our church's youth ministry, and namely the idea was for me to show up, knock some trees down, cut em up, and let the kids haul the debris to the road. I was told ahead of time that it was for an elderly lady who just didnt have the means to help herself, and I willingly took the day off to be there.

The day before I went to the home to look things over and decide what equipment to bring along, and had a chance to meet the "elderly lady" and was surprised to see that she wasnt much older than me(I am 44). Maybe my definition of "old" could use some work? Maybe I am now considered old?
At any rate, I decided that since i was committed to the project, I would show up, but I would later have a word with our youth ministry about who should be considered worthy of our time, although in reality it really isnt my business I guess.Showed up an hour early to get some brush on the ground and almost immediately was put into position to change my mind.
First it was the badgering.
"look out for those power lines going through all the trees."
"Be careful with that chainsaw, you are acting awful reckless"
"Are you sure you should be wearing short pants?" (I was wearing shorts with chaps on over them, it was 98 degrees out and 100 percent humidity.)

Finally the kids and other adults showed up, and we worked for a couple of hours and broke for dinner at 6 when the pastor showed up with pizza for the whole crew. And dang it all, the old gal came out of the air conditioned house, scooped up a pizza box, and went back in the house!

I thought WTF? We are busting our hump out here cleaning up your place, and you take our dinner? I was glad it was hot out at that point because I really dont feel like eating much when I am hot, but it would have been nice to have something more than the scrapings off the pizza box for some dinner.Its amazing how fast teenagers can wipe out a pizza pie.Take five seconds to get to the box and its gone.
An hour later I came around the front of the house, and there was our beneficiary scooping gatorades out of the cooler and filling her shirt, and as she carted as many drinks into the house as she could carry in her bulging shirt, she told me she just loves Gatorade.WTF? We are busting our hump out here cleaning up your place, and you take our drinks?

Finally as dark approached we called it good and loaded our tools up, and i took the chance to take a quick inventory to make sure everything had gotten back to my truck. Just as I figured it was time to locate my daughter and hit the road, our beneficiary came up to me and wanted to know if I could knock down two more trees, this time in the front of the house.It was dark, i was tired, and ready to head home, but after some pleading from our youth leader I quietly dragged the 372 out of the truck and knocked em both down, bucked em up, and prayed that I wouldnt cut my foot off in the dark. And I just couldnt help but think, "We are busting our hump out here cleaning up your place, and you arent satisfied?"

You would think that would be the end of it, but it wasnt. Then it was trim up a hydragea in the dark, prune back a dogwood, and i finally said I aint doing a dang thing more.Its 930 at night, I have been humping brush, vines, and trash for the past six hours with nothing to eat, and I am going home.

The more I thought about it, the more ticked I got, and as I joined the group yacking out by the roadside, I put my thoughts out there for a few of the other guys, and was surprised at their response.I figured that if the homeowner wasn't old, she ought to be out there helping, and they were appalled at my callousness. I figured that if we were doing the work, we should be fed and watered first, and if there was anything left someone else could walk off with it.Again, I was met with blank stares. I figured that if a pro showed up to help you out, you ought to let the man do his job and keep your yap shut unless it was plain to see that he had no idea what he was doing.Again, the blank stares.

Sorry for the long post, but I needed to get that off my chest. I wish in my heart I could be more like others and freely give of myself even if the recipient isn't so thankful or worthy.

I think your a much stronger man than I........Props for not cutting her a new door to let the fresh air in.....Because I thought I smelled smoke. Guess it was just 2 cycle but better safe than sorry.

 

[MiracleRepair]

Have any of you noticed, that the ones telling avalancher not to judge the woman or the church's actions, are in fact judging avalancher? And all this time, I thought hypocrisy was wrong.:bang: