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I'm never selling anything on AS.. Ebay is a much friendlier environment, and, everyone on Ebay KNOWS what a parts saw is...
Its just that the member said this...I have a real nice used 036 parts saw up for saleMark
 
Lakeside53 said:
It looks like a nice parts saw to me...

+1


Boston, good on ya. Your trying to do the right thing by bringing this in front of everyone. Unfortunatley it takes a few sour deals to make for better future transactions.

And on a side note you had said they were threatning to do something, that is a SURE FIRE way to get a human being to not do what you want. Or at least me :laugh:
 
I will say this. I looked at the listing, and it was not immediately apparent that the top end was missing.
If I had acted impulsively, it would have been a surprise.
But because of the low price, I read the listing very carefully, and figured it out for myself.
So whats my opinion? Well, it should have been worded a little more clearly what was there, and what was not.

However.
The buyer is wrong. You didn't mislead or lie.
 
ericjeeper said:
I feel the seller should have pointed it out.Then again I also feel the Buyer, by all means should have asked a few questions.
So I am going to just stay on the fence and try not to fall off.
Off the fence I guess as this pretty much sums up my thoughts too, and it being a picket fence the points were begining to hurt my bottom end. *passes eric a beer* aw go ahead an fall off man :D

:cheers:
 
Caveat Emptor

Just an observation

I have dealt with buying and selling in numerous fields and from my point of view it looks like a typical case of one party thinking they are getting the best of the other

I don't judge there are people of all temperments in all fields that I am involved in

I see people daily profess ignorence of an item they are offering with the intent to get a top price from someone who thinks they know more about an item than the seller

I don't do it that way but it is quite prevelant in New England

To me it seems humerous

One guy doesn't state all he knows and can appear that he has little knowledge while the other thinks that the guy doesn't know the true value of what he is selling

It is simple

"You can't cheat an honest man"
 
I think the key point to make here is "PARTS SAW" !! I know myself if I were buying a parts saw from someone, the first thing I would do is find out what parts were good and what were bad. Seems like common sense to me would be to ask questions. I wouldn't expect a parts saw to be in running condition thats why it is being sold as a parts saw in the first place.
 
OK, first and foremost, I would think that anyone buying or selling on AS would typically be more saw-savvy (and potentially more trusting of a fellow AS-er) than your average ebay-er. That's likely where the assumptions started.

The saw was listed as a parts saw, at a low price, so buyer should have said "What's up with THAT?" He should have looked at pics, and wondered why saw was disassembled, and yes, asked. BUT, as mentioned earlier, an impulsive buyer may have read:

"I have a real nice used 036 parts saw up for sale.

Buyer sees the term "parts" as a disclaimer of sorts that the saw may or may not work as a runner, but just a CYA thing instead of a pimary adjective describing the saw. Bad move, but impluse makes thing read funny sometimes. Further, the blurb It is missing is part of the handle, air filter, and the inside half of the muffler. read sort of like a laundry list of the saw's (only) shortcomings. The statement "other than that verything seems to be there. Please look at all the pics. seems to suggest that the saw could be reassembled with the supplied parts plus elsewhere-purchased "extra stuff". Mention SHOULD have been made of top end condition "although piston and jug are included, they are toast". There is a solid argument that the buyer should have asked, and I agree.

So I can easily see where a guy could have read more into the description than there actually was. The seller assumed that everyone had the same mental understanding of what a "parts saw" was and that everyone knew that if the jug was off the saw it was junk. I, myself don't get that part. What about the bar? Was it to be considered junk because it was off the saw? All the other parts? Where to draw the line?

The buyer apparently made some disastrous assumptions as well. Master of the obvious, ain't I?

In the end, the seller did not outright lie or misrepresent anything, but should have made more clear what was good and bad about the saw. The buyer went into the deal knowing that he was buying a box-o-parts and damn well should have made some inquiries about the saw's potential in fulfilling his needs. I can't put much more responsibility on one or the other.
 
bump_r said:
OK, first and foremost, I would think that anyone buying or selling on AS would typically be more saw-savvy (and potentially more trusting of a fellow AS-er) than your average ebay-er. That's likely where the assumptions started.

The saw was listed as a parts saw, at a low price, so buyer should have said "What's up with THAT?" He should have looked at pics, and wondered why saw was disassembled, and yes, asked. BUT, as mentioned earlier, an impulsive buyer may have read:

"I have a real nice used 036 parts saw up for sale.

Buyer sees the term "parts" as a disclaimer of sorts that the saw may or may not work as a runner, but just a CYA thing instead of a pimary adjective describing the saw. Bad move, but impluse makes thing read funny sometimes. Further, the blurb It is missing is part of the handle, air filter, and the inside half of the muffler. read sort of like a laundry list of the saw's (only) shortcomings. The statement "other than that verything seems to be there. Please look at all the pics. seems to suggest that the saw could be reassembled with the supplied parts plus elsewhere-purchased "extra stuff". Mention SHOULD have been made of top end condition "although piston and jug are included, they are toast". There is a solid argument that the buyer should have asked, and I agree.

So I can easily see where a guy could have read more into the description than there actually was. The seller assumed that everyone had the same mental understanding of what a "parts saw" was and that everyone knew that if the jug was off the saw it was junk. I, myself don't get that part. What about the bar? Was it to be considered junk because it was off the saw? All the other parts? Where to draw the line?

The buyer apparently made some disastrous assumptions as well. Master of the obvious, ain't I?

In the end, the seller did not outright lie or misrepresent anything, but should have made more clear what was good and bad about the saw. The buyer went into the deal knowing that he was buying a box-o-parts and damn well should have made some inquiries about the saw's potential in fulfilling his needs. I can't put much more responsibility on one or the other.


Bump your making me :cry: :cry: That was a great post...





..
 
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bump_r said:
In the end, the seller did not outright lie or misrepresent anything, but should have made more clear what was good and bad about the saw. The buyer went into the deal knowing that he was buying a box-o-parts and damn well should have made some inquiries about the saw's potential in fulfilling his needs. I can't put much more responsibility on one or the other.

I don't know. Buying stuff over the internet is a little tricky as you cannot inspect goods and have to rely on pictures and description.

Therefor, I think the buyer should always be protected in case of internet sale, and the seller has to be very clear & precise as to what he's offering. If one sells a "parts" saw, I recommend that he clearly states what parts are included, and which not, and which ones are toast ; and make use of pics for supporting it.

In this case, Bostonbull imo failed to precise the parts which were re-usable, and left room for interpretation that the top was available.

If it were me the seller, I would settle the dispute by a reasonable discount or take the saw back.

my 02 cts.
Roland
 
belgian said:
I don't know. Buying stuff over the internet is a little tricky as you cannot inspect goods and have to rely on pictures and description.

Therefor, I think the buyer should always be protected in case of internet sale, and the seller has to be very clear & precise as to what he's offering. If one sells a "parts" saw, I recommend that he clearly states what parts are included, and which not, and which ones are toast ; and make use of pics for supporting it.

In this case, Bostonbull imo failed to precise the parts which were re-usable, and left room for interpretation that the top was available.

If it were me the seller, I would settle the dispute by a reasonable discount or take the saw back.

my 02 cts.
Roland

In USA we have are supposed to be guided by a principle called caveat emptor. Which means -buyer beware. That means we have a tradition that the buyer should inform himself about what he is buying because after the trade the property is his and the money is the sellers. Unless of course there is deception involved. I don't think BB decieved him either intentionally or unintentionally he simply made the saw availible and described it reasonably well but not perfectly. He did make it clear to ask all important questions and look carefully at the pictures. In the old days this would clearly be the buyers responsibility, as it should now.

I think BB should say in the future as is what you see is what you get in order to remind the buyer of caveat emptor but the law still stands even without stateing it.

Doing it any other way than caveat emptor will just lead to more disputes.
 
retoocs555 said:
Originally Posted by SmokinDodge
Ok, I'll stick my neck out. I think it was a 50/50 thing.

Seller: If there was scorring on the cylinder it would have been easy to see and make a note of in the For Sale post.

Buyer: If it's a parts saw and major componets have been removed you should probably should ask why.

That's my thought too.

As a buyer, you usually have a list of parts that you need from a parts saw to do your repairs or finish your project. If you have any doubt ALWAYS ask specifically if all the parts you want are on the saw and in usable shape.

As a seller, if the jug is off the saw like that, take a couple seconds and say that the piston and jug are no good. Not that you really did anything wrong, but it would have been 'nice'. If you're paying the shipping why even waste the money shipping dead weight?

I have to agree that this 50/50.

The buyer should have asked as the jug was off but specific defects were mentioned the words "other than that" and to me I can easily see the assumption that the jug and piston were fine!

I have a real nice used 036 parts saw up for sale. It is missing is part of the handle, air filter, and the inside half of the muffler. other than that verything seems to be there.

Of course legally I am not sure what "verything" means :biggrinbounce2:
 
I dont have to do this but just an update.

I spoke with the buyer and offered a full refund less shipping it to him and shipping to me. I also offered a dealer priced piston. Neither of these offers have been accepted by the buyer.

I leave these offers on the table. I cant recall who it was right now but someone on here e-mailed me asking about the piston and I told them point blank NO GOOD!!! As I would have anyone else.
 
When I buy a parts saw, I am buying for parts. and if i needed a good topend on that parts saw, you bet your butt I would ask first before assuming it was good. Now only once have I bought a parts saw and ended up making it into runner in less then a hour and had to get me another parts saw to finish up the new project. :cry:
 
Seems to me that when someone relegates a saw to "parts", it means that it is beyond reasonable repair, otherwise you'd fix it. Now what usually makes a saw beyond reasonable repair? I'd assume either physical damage from running it over with something heavy and/or the jug and piston are burned up. In any case, I too would be asking about the specific parts I needed before plunking my money down.

Ian
 
gasman said:
In USA we have are supposed to be guided by a principle called caveat emptor. Which means -buyer beware. That means we have a tradition that the buyer should inform himself about what he is buying because after the trade the property is his and the money is the sellers.

That may be the case for sales in the old days, but the internet sales (ebay, etc.) call clearly for other rules. If not, it leaves the door way open for people who want to commit fraude intentionally (have a look at the "I've been screwed ! thread). Very appropriate case. According to several arguments mentioned, the seller, who obviously committed fraude, could get away easily buy saying "hey, you should have asked before buying it !!).


Unless of course there is deception involved. I don't think BB decieved him either intentionally or unintentionally he simply made the saw availible and described it reasonably well but not perfectly. He did make it clear to ask all important questions and look carefully at the pictures. In the old days this would clearly be the buyers responsibility, as it should now.

I think in this case, there is clearly deception involved from the buyer side, no ? . We all feel that BB never had the intention to cover up things, be we also admit that he could have given better description of the parts also. In such case, the buyer should have the right to cancel the sale imo.


the law still stands even without stateing it.

Doing it any other way than caveat emptor will just lead to more disputes.

I see it different, as explained.

Reading BB's last comment, that looks like a fair offer to me. If the buyer does not accept it, then the case should rest.
Roland
 
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