I.S.A Board Certified Master Arborist
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Tree Machine
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ISA certification is attainable for all who desire it. Without it, a credential in the field is a 2 or 4 year degree. Not every person has the resources for that.
ISA started 20 years too late. If certification was required to be part of this working profession from long ago, then it would be accepted as the norm. But it's recent, and designed for men who wish to further their careers.
It's not being imposed on you, so why the resistance? ISA has left it optional and voluntary, so what exactly gives you the right to badmouth the program? These are good people trying to give guidance and direction to an essentially unregulated industry.
Unregulated, but that's the U.S. You try going to work doing what you do in United Kingdom. You'll begin to appreciate some of the latitude we have. Unfortunately, lack of regulations can let the hacks enter and proliferate unchecked. This undermines our entire industry as bad tree work is a reflection on those of us doing good tree work.
ISA started 20 years too late. If certification was required to be part of this working profession from long ago, then it would be accepted as the norm. But it's recent, and designed for men who wish to further their careers.
It's not being imposed on you, so why the resistance? ISA has left it optional and voluntary, so what exactly gives you the right to badmouth the program? These are good people trying to give guidance and direction to an essentially unregulated industry.
Unregulated, but that's the U.S. You try going to work doing what you do in United Kingdom. You'll begin to appreciate some of the latitude we have. Unfortunately, lack of regulations can let the hacks enter and proliferate unchecked. This undermines our entire industry as bad tree work is a reflection on those of us doing good tree work.
Shaun Bowler
ArboristSite Operative
I think it is great that you are a BCMA.
It is fun to put those titles on your business cards, and patchs on your shirts.
It takes a lot of work and dedication to care enough about your career to be available for the next step.
Are you a CA or CTW also?
It is fun to put those titles on your business cards, and patchs on your shirts.
It takes a lot of work and dedication to care enough about your career to be available for the next step.
Are you a CA or CTW also?
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Who, me?
diltree
ArboristSite Guru
Lxt
Why the attack on treeseer and myself....because we believe in certification????? Sorry man, In many trades much less complicated then ours, licensing is required, so whats wrong with setting a standard in our trade with certification???? I don't see any negatives with the C.A. and the B.C.M.A., only positives. Further more, currently i don't feel i know enough to become a B.C.M.A, but the certification gives me a goal for the future to motivate my continuing education in the trade. There is so much to know about our profession, certification simply sets a standard, separating the qualified from the hacks....If your qualified and knowledgeable enough to become certified i don't understand why you would be against it...it sets you apart from BS artists that know very little, about tree care.
Why the attack on treeseer and myself....because we believe in certification????? Sorry man, In many trades much less complicated then ours, licensing is required, so whats wrong with setting a standard in our trade with certification???? I don't see any negatives with the C.A. and the B.C.M.A., only positives. Further more, currently i don't feel i know enough to become a B.C.M.A, but the certification gives me a goal for the future to motivate my continuing education in the trade. There is so much to know about our profession, certification simply sets a standard, separating the qualified from the hacks....If your qualified and knowledgeable enough to become certified i don't understand why you would be against it...it sets you apart from BS artists that know very little, about tree care.
shaun yes you gotta be a ca to be a bcma. oct 9 i take the ctw test. the muni test has almost nothing about trees in it. payin for these tests and renewals is trivial compared to overall expenses.
lxt no offense taken. the isa is far from a ripoff. the cuts i made on that oak were made by a handsaw; no oil spewed. :angel:
lxt no offense taken. the isa is far from a ripoff. the cuts i made on that oak were made by a handsaw; no oil spewed. :angel:
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
It takes signing up for the test and taking it. You may have to stretch a bit, and meet other guys doing the same thing. There, of course, is the drive to get to the test site. It's not a lot of work and commitment. Commitment, yes, but honestly, compare the amount of work to ANY other profession that has certification and find out if those certifications are optional or required. I'll answer that for you. They're required. You pass the certification exam, or you do not work as a professional in that field.Shaun Bowler said:
We have it so easy, I can't even see why there is a complaint.
Shaun, you're a brother. My heart is only for the betterment of the industry and for the progress and improvement of the men serving the trees.
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blackwaterguide
ArboristSite Member
c.a.'s
Fellas, maybe you've noticed I'm not one for contention. Yes, of course, educated arborists can work in trees. Why not? However, if you've put in your years as a logger, climber, and machinery (skidder opeator/owner) I do not believe you must needs do a 50 ft footlock climb to prover yourself a qualified arborist. I very much believe in education and, furthermore, I am of the opinion that a qualified arborist does not, in every case, need to drop a hundred logs a day or climb seven trees a day. I've met many men capable of much greater endurance and yet they do lack thourough understanding of aboriculture, horticulture, and biology. My only point is that education, while considered by many to be expensive, find that, at my late age, ignorance has a very dear price indeed. Please take no offense at my opinion as it may only be relative to my position.
Love this site. My very best wishes to you all. Our hearts are in the same place.
Fellas, maybe you've noticed I'm not one for contention. Yes, of course, educated arborists can work in trees. Why not? However, if you've put in your years as a logger, climber, and machinery (skidder opeator/owner) I do not believe you must needs do a 50 ft footlock climb to prover yourself a qualified arborist. I very much believe in education and, furthermore, I am of the opinion that a qualified arborist does not, in every case, need to drop a hundred logs a day or climb seven trees a day. I've met many men capable of much greater endurance and yet they do lack thourough understanding of aboriculture, horticulture, and biology. My only point is that education, while considered by many to be expensive, find that, at my late age, ignorance has a very dear price indeed. Please take no offense at my opinion as it may only be relative to my position.
Love this site. My very best wishes to you all. Our hearts are in the same place.
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
you guys worried about cost do know that your yearly dues can be written off on your taxes as a business expense.
also almost every govt contract i have been apart of has requested at least one ISA certified arborist be present on the job site during work hours. many residential clients here in va are also familiar with the isa and the value of certifications.
also almost every govt contract i have been apart of has requested at least one ISA certified arborist be present on the job site during work hours. many residential clients here in va are also familiar with the isa and the value of certifications.
NYCHA FORESTER
ArboristSite Operative
ISA CA is considered the minimum qualification for many agencies.
Until ISA comes up with an ethics board or similar body to review questionable practices by many CA's (and revoke them) it will largely be viewed as nothing more than a piece of paper that a salesman uses to gain the confidence of an unwitting home owner; which is a shame because the majority of the CA's out there are straight shooters.
ISA has to show some sort of commitment in rooting out these bad apples.
Until ISA comes up with an ethics board or similar body to review questionable practices by many CA's (and revoke them) it will largely be viewed as nothing more than a piece of paper that a salesman uses to gain the confidence of an unwitting home owner; which is a shame because the majority of the CA's out there are straight shooters.
ISA has to show some sort of commitment in rooting out these bad apples.
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xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Iv'e gotta wait 3 years before I can even apply to be a BCMA
Being a C.A. restricts me in my ability to work for others, I'm in the largest metro area of my state and ethically I can only look at being employed by only 2 or 3 companies now. Its a good thing I have a 1500 $ removal to do on my own this weekend or I'd go hungry. I cant even do sales now not that I ever have sold for a tree company, few trim spikeless.
Being a C.A. restricts me in my ability to work for others, I'm in the largest metro area of my state and ethically I can only look at being employed by only 2 or 3 companies now. Its a good thing I have a 1500 $ removal to do on my own this weekend or I'd go hungry. I cant even do sales now not that I ever have sold for a tree company, few trim spikeless.
diltree
ArboristSite Guru
Do you have to be a C.A. for so many years to stand for a BCMA exam????? Is that what you mean Xtream???
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can count on one hand the companies that do not spike their trims. I'm guessing there are 5-7 companies that dont spike trims, the other 134 companies do spike their trims Treeseer.
Diltree
Yes from what I understand the wait is 3 years after C.A. before you can test for BCMA.
I wish I'd never given so many years to the Guard and Navy. I'd be pushing my own sales and crew.
Diltree
Yes from what I understand the wait is 3 years after C.A. before you can test for BCMA.
I wish I'd never given so many years to the Guard and Navy. I'd be pushing my own sales and crew.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tree Co,
Perhaps your right about central and the south but the North is way behind the times Maybe I am being a bit xtreme however, I'm under the understanding theres no market for it up here. Ive talked with several Co's that agree the market price has been driven down north of you that tree care has been throw out the window for the almighty dollar with the exception of a very few.
I have to remind myself that is their business not mine to spike or not.
No Offence Tree Co my hats off to you and a very few others that dont spike trims.
I feel we need a education program as the city expands rapidly towards the mountains.
Perhaps your right about central and the south but the North is way behind the times Maybe I am being a bit xtreme however, I'm under the understanding theres no market for it up here. Ive talked with several Co's that agree the market price has been driven down north of you that tree care has been throw out the window for the almighty dollar with the exception of a very few.
I have to remind myself that is their business not mine to spike or not.
No Offence Tree Co my hats off to you and a very few others that dont spike trims.
I feel we need a education program as the city expands rapidly towards the mountains.
diltree
ArboristSite Guru
ya you Southerners are way behind us Yankees
diltree, attack certification? no!! Im attacking the criteria that makes one certified. the problem with the ISA is their lobbyist attempts to have govt. agencies hire at least 1 ISA arborist for a job site, im sure they rather see more than 1 CA, their efforts to have twp`s & cities become ISA frontiers appalls me. why? because the fresh grad from local college who`s now an ISA CA with no real exp. is tellin 18,25 & 30+ year men/women how to do their job, these are the same people who consult then recommend me for the job, I thank them!!! but, it is a shame to talk the talk & not walk the walk. when I see an international consulting arborist champ Ill take notice, till then Ill be watchin the big boys play & learnin from them tree climbing champions! & treeseer I guess you dont use chainsaws uhh!! according to your post!!! my A@# you dont. I think certification is good!!!!! but will need regulated, & lets base it on ones ability & knowledge and not membership dues. Take care be safe!!! LXT
lxt, yes I use chainsaws when I have to, no problem.lxt said:
you do not need to be a member to be certified. I agree totally with you about the reliance on booklearning and would like to see more experience in the qualifications. I butt heads with deskjockey CA's all the time who are not very practical. For bcma the test is built so you cannot pass it without considerable experience dealing with trees in the field.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Until ISA comes up with an ethics board or similar body to review questionable practices by many CA's (and revoke them) it will largely be viewed as nothing more than a piece of paper that a salesman uses to gain the confidence of an unwitting home owner;
I agree totally friend
Is the ISA doing anything to regulate its own? No.Does it propagate dishonesty in order to furter education about itself? Yes.
TresserBMCA yes I've done sorta a survey of the tree Co's in my area and the Certifed Arborist sence I've gotten out of the National Guard. I happened upon it while looking for a job. Its quiet easy to do.
I agree totally friend
Is the ISA doing anything to regulate its own? No.Does it propagate dishonesty in order to furter education about itself? Yes.
TresserBMCA yes I've done sorta a survey of the tree Co's in my area and the Certifed Arborist sence I've gotten out of the National Guard. I happened upon it while looking for a job. Its quiet easy to do.
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