I'm over it, moving forward

[mckeetree]

Nothing wrong with doing trees part time. Doesn't make you any less of a hard worker or a tree guy. Not sure what the big deal is. It is a passion, do it when you can. I love it! Who ever has a problem with that can come to Arkansas for an indepth discussion about it.

Matter of opinion.

 

[capetrees]

The comments about doing trees part time doesn't bother me. I just find it strange that some think of it as lesser than they are. How many in here started their very own tree business right out of the door? Just walked into the bank, asked for $200k to start a business with no experience so they can buy a chipper, a truck and loader, some saws, hire a few guys and have enough to buy a building to house it all in. Or did those that are offended by part timers get their businesses handed down to them from daddy? I'll bet mostly everyone in business today started as a part timer and then grew to something bigger once they were able to do it full time.

 

[Rftreeman]

To all the guys that have their weekends off, how many of you own the business? There's no such thing as weekends off if you own the business, especially if you don't have good help.

I own it and haven't worked a Saturday since this....

 

[capetrees]

I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.

 

[dingeryote]

I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.

Cape,

Call the local VA. There's lotsa smart, strong, and willing to work hard, guys that are getting out and coming home to a bleak job market for grunts.

Also call your local American legion and yak with someone on the board.

Odds are they have a couple good Soldiers and Marines already in mind that are wanting to work, and are easy to train.

800 bucks a month for saturdays....
You would have guys killing each other for that here.



Good luck!
Dingeryote

 

[Metals406]

I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.

$800.00 a month for 4 days work?.. I'd be all over that like flies on poo.

 

[capetrees]

Exactly, but where I live, some people think thats chump change! And as far as the VA or the legion, we don't have them here to the point that there are young guys to do the work. Most of the guys iat the VFW are much older fellas. Believe me, I'm trying to thinkl of who or where to look but its tough out here on the "island".

 

[asthesun]

I've had it with my groundie. looking for a new one tommorow.

He continues to take time off, (all I ask is that he work Saturdays), tells me he's going to at the last minute meaning anything I had planned out for weeks prior is now off unless I can do it alone, he thinks I need him more than he needs me and is honestly as ignorant as can be. I try to work with him, bend to his needs more often that I want, actually gave him a raise not to long ago but now he's finally broken me. Since April 1st, he's taken off at least 4 weekends and plans to take off ther next two. This is my busiest part of the season and I pay him quite well for what he does which honestly, isn't much other than lumping brush and logs. He shows no desire to further himself in any direction and continues to transform into a bum. If I can find someone even close to him, he's gone in a heartbeat. I have two weeks before he's going to be at work again so that gives me some time to set him free.

i feel for you. its hard to find good help. i'm going through something similar, all my groundies are slow as molasses after about an hour or work and seem to forget basic rules i have laid down. (when i'm bombing wood next to something, i need it moved after every piece i cut. when the saw is running, dont be undewr the tree, period.) went by my mexican buddie's house the other day but i guess he moved.

dont listen to those holier than thou types that say working weekends is bad, many people will admire your dedication and i'm sure god will understand your need to feed your family.

 

[chip's-tree]

cap, I hired a high school kid (17) to work ground and odd things. I have to watch out for him but it's been well worth the money..

 

[arbor pro]

For those of you who despise us part-timers, I am assuming it is because your business has been affected in a negative way by a part-timer low-balling your bids; thus, taking away work from you.

A few things to consider when making the comments you make:

1) There will always be low-ballers out there and there are just as many full-timers doing it as part-timers. They are typically the guys who are uninsured and paying their helpers under the table; thus, having lower overhead.

2) A good part-timer who conducts himself professionally, carries insurance and cares about what he does can be a boost to the tree care industry and not the hindrance many of you see us as. Many of us choose to be part-time for various reasons but love the tree care industry; thus, choose it as a secondary source of income. Many of us do the smaller more meticulous pruning and maintenance jobs that some of you full-timers don't want to do.

3) Would you rather see a hard-working family man stop doing tree care on the side as his second source of income and just sit home on the weekend and lose his house because he can't pay his mortgage and beat his wife and yell at his kids? Some of us are hard-working, caring family men who need the second income in order to provide for our families. We work a second job as a choice of values.

Give part-timers a break. It's the unprofessional, untrained, uncaring, lowballing hacks (both part-time and full-time) that you should devote your energy towards. The rest of us are just trying to keep the kids in clean clothes and put food on the table. We don't ask for a handout and we don't ask for your sympathy or support. We just ask that you don't rail on us because, while you work 40 hours a week, we work 60.

 

[chip's-tree]

part timers

I have nothing against part timers if they are doing a good job, honest work, not low balling the market and carry enough Ins. to protect the public. most tree companies started out small or part time.

 

[capetrees]

+1+1

The previous two posts are spot on.

 

[Blakesmaster]

We just ask that you don't rail on us because, while you work 40 hours a week, we work 60.

I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week.

As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.

 

[mckeetree]

I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week.

As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.

I would imagine you are right and good point. There is plenty non-legit full timers.

 

[TDunk]

As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.

I have to agree with that, well said. My bids are usually with in 10-15 percent of what the full timers bid. Some times more, sometimes less. But alot of it can depend on what each company thinks the job is worth. A Co. with older equipment can/usually operate cheaper than a Co. with all new stuff. EXAMPLE. Co. A bids a job at 6 hrs. start to finish at $150 an hour = $900. Co. B bids the job at 6 hrs. at $150 an hour but since the tree is close to a fence or a shed, they bid $1200 because THEY THINK the job is worth more. Both Co.'s are bidding what they personally think the job is worth.

 

[arbor pro]

The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.

Not true in all cases so let's not make general assumptions. I make more money doing tree work part-time than my wife made working full-time at her job. So, my doing tree work evenings and saturdays allows our kids to be brought up by their mom rather than by a daycare.

Everyone does what he does for his own reasons so, to each his own. All that really matters is that, if you're going to do tree care, you should know what you're doing and try to run a legitimate ethical business. You can do that whether you're full-time or part-time. I've done both so no need to try to tell me different. It's the same basic business principles in either scenario.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

Great post. As a former full-timer and now a weekend warrior, I can relate to both side.

Honesty, integrity, and moral value rule the day.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Not true in all cases so let's not make general assumptions. I make more money doing tree work part-time than my wife made working full-time at her job. So, my doing tree work evenings and saturdays allows our kids to be brought up by their mom rather than by a daycare.

That was definitely a general assumption. It's hard to think in a "married with kids" perspective for me sometimes. What I was trying to point out is that doing tree work as your ONLY source of income puts a bit more pressure on the owner to make the bid profitable. Whereas, in your case, your wife could go back to work, you could ask for a raise, etc. A full time tree business owner is basically forced to make the company work or he stands to lose everything. Because I have a back up job ( albeit still tree work, just not my own ) it matters less to me if my equipment goes unused for a week or two. For a full time operator that's a serious problem.

 

[pdqdl]

Good help is hard to find. A good man will work because it's his duty, no matter the pay scale. Finding them, well that's another story.

YES! Over the years I have discovered that an excellent worker is just that; regardless of the pay. If you don't pay them enough, they will move on, but they will be the best they can be until they walk out the door. The secret is to find them and keep them before someone else does.

Lazy or useless workers are just the opposite: paying them more doesn't get a harder, smarter, or faster worker. It just gets you less lip service while you are gritting your teeth at the wages you are throwing away.

 

[fishercat]

i'm not full time because there isn't enough work.

I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week.

As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.

mainly because there are too many tree companies around here.i rarely drink and what little i do is given to me for free so i don't need beer money.