I'm throwing in the towel.

[TomSawyer]

Gentlemen (and ladies)

I am giving up on my business, Tom Sawyer's Tree Service.

I gave it the old college try, but it did not work out. I have to hand it to those of you that have been in business for many years, this is a tough racket. I am selling everything I have built up over the past few years and going back to school. Thanks to the members of this site for all the help and motivation!

You can pick through the bones at:

www.ts################

No advertising.

 

[treemandan]

Gentlemen (and ladies)

I am giving up on my business, Tom Sawyer's Tree Service.

I gave it the old college try, but it did not work out. I have to hand it to those of you that have been in business for many years, this is a tough racket. I am selling everything I have built up over the past few years and going back to school. Thanks to the members of this site for all the help and motivation!

You can pick through the bones at:

www.ts################

No advertising.

If you have no adversity I would like to ask a bunch of questions about you , your business and what it was exactly that made you think its better to stop. here is a question: What is it that made you think that tree work would be a good business for a businessman?
I would say" sorry to hear about it buddy" but I am not sure I should or if I am. All in all you know better than me.

 

[Brush Hog]

Sorry to hear your cashing in the chips but nothing in life comes easy.

 

[pdqdl]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

I am curious: would you say that you were put out of business by adverse conditions (employees, competition, market trends, expenses, lack of business acumen, etc.) or would you say that it was some deficiency on your part (inexperience, lack of ambition, no management skills, no organizational skills, etc.)

I would say that I suffer from ALL of the above problems, so I am completely sympathetic.

 

[TomSawyer]

Treemandan,

Sure, I have no problem answering your questions. It came down to this: Tree work is too dangerous for the kind of money that we were making. My foreman and I did quite a few jobs, had a few close calls, and didn't make very much money. I paid close attention to the bidding strategies of others on this page, and I underbid a few, overbid a few, and generally worked my bids to be competitive, but by no means was I a lowballer. Times are tough up here in Northern Michigan, and hugely profitable jobs don't grow on trees. You have to be competitive.
I take safety very seriously, probably due to my time as a Marine Corps aviator. I saw dozens of possibilities for my guys to get hurt/killed, and for me, it just isn't worth it. The money is not that good. I'll start another type of business sometime down the road that doesn't involve such risk.

If you have more questions, shoot!

 

[TomSawyer]

Businesswise, there are two major problems that I saw as a tree service owner. The most serious one is a lack of barriers to entry. You all know as well as I do that the guy with a beat up Nissan hardbody, his trusty Stihl and a climbing rope is out there underbidding you by half. In tough economic times, people are pinching their pennies, and they are going for these dudes. Sure they don't last, but isn't there always someone waiting to take their place?

Secondly, I don't think I got much help from the economy here in Northern Michigan.

I took a vacation and thought about these two problems along with the risk problem discussed above, and I made the decision to try again with something else some other day. Discretion can be the better part of valor, or so I once heard.

I have enjoyed this board, though

 

[TomSawyer]

I never answered your first question Treemandan. I got into it with my foreman, who was a line clearance man for Trees Inc. Good dude, and he helped me build my house. I had some problem trees in my yard and he took care of them no sweat, it was fun to watch.
I am good with equipment (maintenance, repairs, etc) and I had some capital. I intended to start a biofuels business, but this seemed like less capital outlay. We started to go into it as partners, but I had been warned countless times not to do this, so we didn't. I put up the dough, and it was my business, with him as my foreman. The business failed but in hindsight, had I done the biofuels thing, I would have been crushed by the rising cost of vegetable oil. You lose some, you lose some, I guess!

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I'm curious about some things, here: How did you prepare yourself, education-wise, for getting into our biz? What kind of money, as in a per year figure net for yourself, did you set out to make? What kind of physical shape were you in before you started your company versus the shape you're in now? What kind of experience did you have running any other small business before you got into the trees? Thanks for your time in answering the above.

 

[secureland]

There's a constant escalator of cheap labor, beat that. If you think our food is expensive now, get rid of the cheap labor and see what you think.

Arborists are not merely laborers, but many don't realize that, and many do their own "training"

Bill

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Man, I just checked out what you're selling. Yow! How many years did it take you to amass this equipment? That is, how long were you in the biz? How much money did you sink into your company to start it? You didn't start out with all of this stuff, right?

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Don't quit now...you are just getting started.

In any field, it's not going to be easy, especially at first.

As far as the risk is concerned, you're taking risks just stepping out into traffic, but you are accustom to those close calls, right?

Maybe you just need a new foreman.

Have you examined just exactly why things aren't panning out with the numbers? Why so many close calls?

If the numbers and close calls went the other way would you stay in the game?

 

[windthrown]

My brother and I were run out of the tree and landscape biz over 20 years ago down in sunny California. By Mexicans. Lots and lots of Mexicans, with Echo chainsaws. Cheep, cheap and cheaper. They will butcher any kind of tree for cheap. No problem. The trees will all have the same resulting shape. Never mind the spur system and central leader pruning on fruit trees. Prune them like a lemon tree! Pines? Hey, who cares if they do not have any buds to form new branches. Just prune them like lemon trees! Hey, they can stump prune everything and get away with it! Why? Because they are :censored: cheap!

And no one elected in this country seems to be willing to do anything about the invasion from south of the border. Big companies want CHEAP labor. Farms around here want CHEAP labor. They all want CHEAP labor, but no one wants to pay for their education, housing, or medical expenes. Yah, pass those expenses along to the tax payers, while we pay them DIRT CHEAP WAGES. *sigh* Sorry, I have to rant about that one... :taped:

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

Alot of unknown variables. In terms of risk, there shouldn't be alot of closecalls unless your climber/foreman/captain isn't running the jobsite correctly. If everyone onsite sticks to their safety protocol the jobs become much less dangerous, though never hazard free of course.

As for the numbers, like you say, it may just be a geographical thing. I've heard Michigan's economy is suffering pretty bad right now. I know you guys have alot of trees up there though. What all services did you company offer? I think the 'removal specialists' are having a particularly hard time of it.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

My brother and I were run out of the tree and landscape biz over 20 years ago down in sunny California. By Mexicans. Lots and lots of Mexicans, with Echo chainsaws. Cheep, cheap and cheaper. They will butcher any kind of tree for cheap. No problem. The trees will all have the same resulting shape. Never mind the spur system and central leader pruning on fruit trees. Prune them like a lemon tree! Pines? Hey, who cares if they do not have any buds to form new branches. Just prune them like lemon trees! Hey, they can stump prune everything and get away with it! Why? Because they are :censored: cheap!

And no one elected in this country seems to be willing to do anything about the invasion from south of the border. Big companies want CHEAP labor. Farms around here want CHEAP labor. They all want CHEAP labor, but no one wants to pay for their education, housing, or medical expenes. Yah, pass those expenses along to the tax payers, while we pay them DIRT CHEAP WAGES. *sigh* Sorry, I have to rant about that one... :taped:

LOL....now I have another response to give the birdies as they mock me in the morning..... "I'm not cheap, I say! I'm no mexicano lemon tree pruner!"

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Hey Tom....I went to you website right there in your profile.

I noticed you specialize in removals. This reinforces my theory that you might be better off hiring another foreman that possesses a broader spectrum of abilities and knowledge that would in turn transform your service into a total tree care company.

Now, I don't mean to hack on your ex-clearance guy. I have no doubts he is a good man well versed in removal techniques. You could even keep him...if he's willing to work with someone that would stretch his mind and teach him more.

Just my thoughts. Oh yeah and no more under bidding....if you are going to error, error on the side of profits. Also, do you work with the crew? Do they hustle? Work smart? safe?

I dunno man...just hate to see a guy that has come so far, invested so much in such a choice profession...quit.

 

[mckeetree]

My brother and I were run out of the tree and landscape biz over 20 years ago down in sunny California. By Mexicans. Lots and lots of Mexicans, with Echo chainsaws. Cheep, cheap and cheaper. They will butcher any kind of tree for cheap. No problem. The trees will all have the same resulting shape. Never mind the spur system and central leader pruning on fruit trees. Prune them like a lemon tree! Pines? Hey, who cares if they do not have any buds to form new branches. Just prune them like lemon trees! Hey, they can stump prune everything and get away with it! Why? Because they are :censored: cheap!

And no one elected in this country seems to be willing to do anything about the invasion from south of the border. Big companies want CHEAP labor. Farms around here want CHEAP labor. They all want CHEAP labor, but no one wants to pay for their education, housing, or medical expenes. Yah, pass those expenses along to the tax payers, while we pay them DIRT CHEAP WAGES. *sigh* Sorry, I have to rant about that one... :taped:

You are right on target there. They want cheap labor but nobody wants to pay for all the social problems that come with cheap, cheap labor. Especially illegal labor. Mexicans running you out may sound funny to some of the northern guys in this forum but just wait they will eventually make it up there.

 

[gink595]

You are right on target there. They want cheap labor but nobody wants to pay for all the social problems that come with cheap, cheap labor. Especially illegal labor. Mexicans running you out may sound funny to some of the northern guys in this forum but just wait they will eventually make it up there.

Are you kidding me, I've been to Texas right there in Terrel east of Dallas, the company I work for has a plant there. I visited it once, I thought holy hell look at all these mexicans, A few years later at home back in Indiana holy hell look at all these mexicans. It doesn't sound funny these people are like coch roaches they have made it through the foundation and are now in the heartland, we need the Orkin man in office and exterminate this problem before our health care is totally :censored: ed due to these free loaders.

 

[reachtreeservi]

LOL....now I have another response to give the birdies as they mock me in the morning..... "I'm not cheap, I say! I'm no mexicano lemon tree pruner!"

 

[ropensaddle]

Get out if you can do so! If I could get out without losing
the farm, I would and it is because our government is against
the American dream for Americans. It has turned to **** every year
seems to get worse and I try to remain optimistic but numbers don't
lie! For some of you in states that have not surrendered to Mexico
it is coming. We also have a training program in our town that trains
at risk youth,good in one aspect bad in another. Good in that some
of these kids would be lost without this training. Bad in that these
kids get out and want to be owners immediately in an already
flooded market. Our market is flooded too the extreme at least
they have had some good training but the market can't support
everyone and just cheapens the pay with all the new startups.
Veterans of tree work have little to look forward to just getting
old and having to be young again as all the resources are aimed
at youth. Experience does not count for **** it seems so if you
are capable of getting out without losing your shirt my hat is off to ya!
If you are like many of us here and invested most of your life savings
and time in this career our prayers are with you. If you are a governor
or some other policriminal do something about the invasion lead follow
or gtfootw.

 

[Jumper]

Best of luck with where ever your future takes you! Consider moving here-we are screaming for workers of all kinds.