I'm throwing in the towel.

[Treetom]

Sad to see you go, bro'. Good luck on your re-education efforts.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Hmm---Maybe Tom Sawyer was just here to hawk his inventory. He answered a few questions so his motive might be obscured, but since he's apparently no longer with us, I think he was just here to sell off his stuff.

 

[tomtrees58]

no butty said it was easy tom trees it just want we love

 

[mckeetree]

Are you kidding me, I've been to Texas right there in Terrel east of Dallas, the company I work for has a plant there. I visited it once, I thought holy hell look at all these mexicans, A few years later at home back in Indiana holy hell look at all these mexicans. It doesn't sound funny these people are like coch roaches they have made it through the foundation and are now in the heartland, we need the Orkin man in office and exterminate this problem before our health care is totally :censored: ed due to these free loaders.

Well we held them off down here as long as we could. They are loose now and heading everywhere I guess. I only vote for people that are against illegal immigration and that is getting to be fewer and fewer as so many politicians are pro illegal. And you are right, they are closer to bringing health care to it's knees than anybody wants to believe. One of our customers who is the administrator of a large hospital told me last month that the average American would panic if they knew the true seriousness of the Mexican problem. He said we are paying for all their indigent care through higher ins. premiums and higher health care cost. He thought by 2011 the system would collapse if things didn't change. BTW I was in Terrell today to do an estimate.

 

[pbtree]

Dude, I am sorry that you are leaving this tree life, but I do hope you will remain on the site and keep contributing...

I wish you peace...

Alan

 

[TomSawyer]

Sunriseguy,

I got into this about 2 years ago, and we put together the equipment package over time. As far as how much money I have sunk into it, let's just say FAR more than I could ever realistically hope to get back out of it. Don't waste your tears on me though, that's business. 90 percent of small businesses fold in the first year right?

To answer some of your other questions, this was my first business. To prepare, I read as much as I could find about the business, and small business in general. I'm a big fan of Robert Kiyosaki's books, the "Rich dad Poor Dad" series. As far as physical shape, I just got out of the Marines, so I was in halfway decent shape, but I would say that I am now in better shape! This is not an office job...

As far as what I hoped to net for myself, that is a good one. I left this out of the business plan because I think it is like an "economic forecast" or a "hot stock tip" In other words, total crap. How could anyone possibly know what they will gross or net when starting a new business. These wild guesses are not worth the paper they are written on. If businessmen could predetermine which businesses will or will not make money, then they wouldn't bother with the losers would they?

Any more questions or comments are welcome. Thanks to those who posted.

 

[TomSawyer]

Bigus termitus,

Your advice is appreciated. Having the wrong people in the wrong positions is a recipe for disaster. This cost my squadron commander his command a few years ago. However, my foreman fulfilled his end of the bargain, he did every job I asked him to do, and did them well. The problem was that I couldn't find enough profitable work. I'm interested to hear from anyone else in Northern Michigan. Are we saturated with tree companies up here?

 

[gr8scott72]

no butty said it was easy tom trees it just want we love

Huh?

 

[mckeetree]

The sad thing is many tree service owners have "failed" but they won't quit. I was talking to an owner in Austin, Texas last year and the the subject came up some way. He told me he bet that there was at least 20% of the full time tree service owners in Austin that didn't put $25,000 clear in their pocket a year. If you are one of those guys and you are reading this give up. What are you trying to prove?

 

[Nailsbeats]

That's the thing about a true treeguy with woodchips in his veins, he just don't quit, not for anyone.

 

[gink595]

Well we held them off down here as long as we could. They are loose now and heading everywhere I guess. I only vote for people that are against illegal immigration and that is getting to be fewer and fewer as so many politicians are pro illegal. And you are right, they are closer to bringing health care to it's knees than anybody wants to believe. One of our customers who is the administrator of a large hospital told me last month that the average American would panic if they knew the true seriousness of the Mexican problem. He said we are paying for all their indigent care through higher ins. premiums and higher health care cost. He thought by 2011 the system would collapse if things didn't change. BTW I was in Terrell today to do an estimate.

Thats funny you said that about the vote. I did the samr thing last election with our district congressmen, Mark Souder. He sent questionairs out to everyone wanting to know their position on the Illegal free loaders and I ended up writting a letter and sending it back to him in the questionair telling him that my vote is going to guy on the toughest immigration laws. I was told a similiar thing about the health care from the hospital about how illegals get a free ticket in the health care, My neighbor was saying that he knows a mexican couple that are US citizens that have health insurance through their work, but when they go to the doctors they speak spanish and the other interpets for them and fake that they are illegals, so they get free heatlh care, when the other is sick they go to a different dr. and do the same thing. I get angry when I hear the BS they can get away with, the crime rate is up due to them, I look in the paper at the police blotters and you see nothing but martinez's and Julio Suave. They have warnings on watching your license plates for theft now. I was looking at moving to Terrell until I visited it, I thought there is no way I will make it here, even though my company is very strict about who they employ, I just don't see speaking spanish in America because I'm forced to, it really should be the other way around.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Bigus termitus,

Your advice is appreciated. Having the wrong people in the wrong positions is a recipe for disaster. This cost my squadron commander his command a few years ago. However, my foreman fulfilled his end of the bargain, he did every job I asked him to do, and did them well. The problem was that I couldn't find enough profitable work. I'm interested to hear from anyone else in Northern Michigan. Are we saturated with tree companies up here?

Thanks for the response....just thought it maybe a possibility.

Wait a minute...marines...squadron....which one?

My brother is an avionics sargent overseeing one of the Harrier squadrons out of Yuma.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

That's the thing about a true treeguy with woodchips in his veins, he just don't quit, not for anyone.

That's just it....it ain't all about the money.

 

[TomSawyer]

I flew with Scarface, HMLA 367. It is a light attack squadron, Hueys and Cobras. I was a snake driver from 01 to 06.

Semper Fi!

 

[Bigus Termitius]

I flew with Scarface, HMLA 367. It is a light attack squadron, Hueys and Cobras. I was a snake driver from 01 to 06.

Semper Fi!

What has you on the ground doing tree work? Or is that a sore subject? Don't mean to pry, but I would think you could make a good living in the private sector as a pilot. Being a military helicopter pilot was a dream of my own once. Thought I'd always come home and fly medevac or something.

Anyway...if you love this biz at all...give it a another go...maybe even part time or something. Ever think about working with someone else more established for awhile?

 

[John464]

you say your problem is getting work. Work is out there as you know and its not always easy to get it. Perhaps you arent a good salesman? Hire one or take some courses on sales. Perhaps your marketing stinks? Learn to market your company better or hire a marketing expert to advertise. The question Im after is why aren't you getting work?

If you like tree work There are plenty of ways to get work, but it takes a real hustler to close a bid. From the reason they call you to what you propose/presentation.

There are reasons why companies are doing a mil a year and it all starts with sales and marketing all while keeping a quality reputation.

I agree with you that this biz is tough, but if you take some time to figure out how to rise above the cut throats, those who work on such short margins wont have the time/capital/resources to devise a master plan.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Sunriseguy,

I got into this about 2 years ago, and we put together the equipment package over time. As far as how much money I have sunk into it, let's just say FAR more than I could ever realistically hope to get back out of it. Don't waste your tears on me though, that's business. 90 percent of small businesses fold in the first year right?

To answer some of your other questions, this was my first business. To prepare, I read as much as I could find about the business, and small business in general. I'm a big fan of Robert Kiyosaki's books, the "Rich dad Poor Dad" series. As far as physical shape, I just got out of the Marines, so I was in halfway decent shape, but I would say that I am now in better shape! This is not an office job...

As far as what I hoped to net for myself, that is a good one. I left this out of the business plan because I think it is like an "economic forecast" or a "hot stock tip" In other words, total crap. How could anyone possibly know what they will gross or net when starting a new business. These wild guesses are not worth the paper they are written on. If businessmen could predetermine which businesses will or will not make money, then they wouldn't bother with the losers would they?

Any more questions or comments are welcome. Thanks to those who posted.

It's tough to respond to you, in a situation like this, without sounding like I'm attacking you, so please, do not take this as an attack.

You made some serious errors, as I see it: You sunk too much money into the business, in too short a time, given the fact that it was a field you were not familiar with. While under-capitalization is one of the big reasons a large percentage of businesses fail, it is not the spending for equipment and such that is contributory, but rather the failure to have a good cash supply on hand for unforeseen business events. You tapped out, as I see it, way too soon. When I asked about how much you prepared yourself, education-wise, I was not asking about studying up on business, in general, although that is a valid thing to do. Rather, I was asking how much you studied up on arboriculture. The fact that you apparently did nothing along that line is a fairly good indicator that you were setting yourself up for a fall, no pun intended. I'm sorry to say, but setting up a target net figure for any business is a basic thing to do. I assure you it is most certainly NOT "total crap" unless you are planning to fail. I have started four businesses in my life. All succeeded. I do not say this to brag, but rather to back up what I point out, above. I always studied the field I was going into, in great depth, I never overspent at the outset, thus keeping my overhead down and I always fleshed out, long before I "hung out my shingle," what I could reasonably hope to net, from the start. One business, my band, took 30% of my hearing over twenty years and so had to be left behind. Another, my tattoo shop, was left behind, after twelve good years, when the number of shops in my town soared from three to thirty, and the pie was being sliced far too thin. Another, my three rent houses that I bought in the early '80's, continue to make me a good deal of money to this day. To get to the present: My tree business is running smoothly and allowing me to live the way I want to. I buy more equipment as I get more business. There is a fine balance that must be struck, there. I am planning on some TV ads, right now, but I have to see that my bottom line will support that.

Part of being a good businessman is knowing when to fold and get into something else. You have that part down, and I salute you for it. I sincerely wish you good luck in your next endeavor, whatever it may be. Each time we fail, we learn by our mistakes, hopefully, and that makes our success shine brighter, down the road. Again, good luck, man!

 

[TomSawyer]

Thanks for the replies folks. Don't worry, I don't feel attacked. I have a pretty thick skin.

Sunrise guy, What was your predictions for gross/net income in your business plan? How did they compare to reality? How did you arrive at the projected figures?

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Thanks for the replies folks. Don't worry, I don't feel attacked. I have a pretty thick skin.

Sunrise guy, What was your predictions for gross/net income in your business plan? How did they compare to reality? How did you arrive at the projected figures?

I researched our biz, on the income side, by reading the two mags from ISA and TCIA. There are some figures given in both magazines, more in the ISA one, including their income survey. I also got bids on tree work at my house and my three rental properties to see what the market was like. I found out the costs of equipment used and got a rough idea of repair costs by talking to dealers in town. I then figured how many people I could call on per week and what an "average gig" might gross. Knowing my very strong sales abilities, I estimated that I could get x amount of gigs per week for y amount of dollars. I came up with a gross figure of anywhere from $50-100 G's per year, and budgeted my expenses, accordingly. I increased that figure as I learned more and made more. So far, so good, knock on (healthy) wood!

I have to say, here, that I have a science background with my Biology degree. I kept up with developments in my field and with a minor in Botany, I was already up to speed, to a fair extent, with arboricultural basics. I learned much more by buying and studying a ton of books on arboriculture, specifically. I can't imagine how anyone can start a tree business without knowing a good deal about trees. Obviously that is done all of the time, sadly, but just as obviously, many people getting into our field with no prior knowledge of it crash and burn pretty quickly.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Im sorry that you have ended up going this way, business is tough, you put alot of yourself into it, and the returns (not just financial) may not always be there.

Alot of guys on this site have had to weather tough times, but sometimes the games against you. And you gotta do whats needed.

I see that the tree business is a kind of trap for many. We buy gear to do the jobs "easier" but have to push harder to make the money to justify the equipment.

Gear is a step up when you need it, and a noose around your neck at other times.

I wish you the best of luck. Nice toys, I started out with a nissan pathfinder and a rented trailer. I was single and living on $120 a week. I think lack of innitial money actually helped built my business, made me careful and kept me from over reaching. But then perhaps thats wrong, but I have always wanted to be an arborist first, and a businessman second.