Importance of clean notch

[motorhead99999]

I had a girlfriend once that didn’t know the importance or a clean notch. So I made her listen to this.
She’s not my girlfriend anymore. A clean notch is everything

 

[rwoods]

A back cut that extends under the “notch”* is quite different than a proper depth back cut that is lower than the “notch”; false hinge on the first.

Ron

*in others’ words, face cut or gunning cut.

 

[northmanlogging]

I am not trying to belittle you or exalt my self. Just sharing a fact that could save someone some hardship down the road.
If it matters to anybody they can experiment with a small light, straight tree. Notch it, then back cut it until under the notch, leave enough fiber it doesn't break off to easy for the experiment, with the bar at the bottom of the back cut push the tree in the falling direction where it leans but doesn't break off and the bar will most often be pinched. If your back cut is even or above the notch and the tree falls toward the notch, normally it is unlikely it could pinch. Try it both ways if inclined.

;;
So what your saying is to take a straight no lean tree, face cut it, then back cut past the hold wood until you are under the face wood?

Or in other words over cutting the back cut

Then ya, if all that happens is getting your bar pinched, you should consider your self lucky and spend a small fortune on lottery tickets

try that **** around any real cutters and if they don't laugh you out of the woods, well... lets just say I have no intention of hiring the likes of you.

And I repeat, since small words seem to go over your head, if your worried about your bar getting pinched, put a wedge in, they are cheap, and most hardware stores sell them right next to the things that resemble chain saws, usually with the saw tools etc

Now, I understand that you are using a standard/saginaw/farmer face, in this case then yes a low back cut, could in fact break out and pinch the bar as the tree is going over, however, its momentary and rare, if this happens, by all means abandon the saw and vacate the premises... in a hurry...

I would also like to point out, that having the backcut elevated on a standard face is to prevent back slip of the stem as it falls, cutting low, encourages back slip, which at times is necessary (and dangerous as frig and should be avoided) There is a very good reason why we do not generally use the standard face out here in the PNW, and that is largely they we have exceptionally tall timber, and generally no where to run, having a tree back slip would be a terrible way to end your career, the Humboldt face prevents this, as well as mitigating most if not all ill effects of a low back cut. Not to mention the mills deduct for face cuts on saw logs, but they deduct for everything... and then some.

 

[TheDarkLordChinChin]

I had a girlfriend once that didn’t know the importance or a clean notch. So I made her listen to this.
She’s not my girlfriend anymore. A clean notch is everything

Oh God please no.

 

[Brushwacker]

;;
So what your saying is to take a straight no lean tree, face cut it, then back cut past the hold wood until you are under the face wood?

Or in other words over cutting the back cut

Then ya, if all that happens is getting your bar pinched, you should consider your self lucky and spend a small fortune on lottery tickets

try that **** around any real cutters and if they don't laugh you out of the woods, well... lets just say I have no intention of hiring the likes of you.

And I repeat, since small words seem to go over your head, if your worried about your bar getting pinched, put a wedge in, they are cheap, and most hardware stores sell them right next to the things that resemble chain saws, usually with the saw tools etc

Now, I understand that you are using a standard/saginaw/farmer face, in this case then yes a low back cut, could in fact break out and pinch the bar as the tree is going over, however, its momentary and rare, if this happens, by all means abandon the saw and vacate the premises... in a hurry...

I would also like to point out, that having the backcut elevated on a standard face is to prevent back slip of the stem as it falls, cutting low, encourages back slip, which at times is necessary (and dangerous as frig and should be avoided) There is a very good reason why we do not generally use the standard face out here in the PNW, and that is largely they we have exceptionally tall timber, and generally no where to run, having a tree back slip would be a terrible way to end your career, the Humboldt face prevents this, as well as mitigating most if not all ill effects of a low back cut. Not to mention the mills deduct for face cuts on saw logs, but they deduct for everything... and then some.

I find your mumbo jumbo confusing opposition to what I much am certain is simple good advice for inexperienced chainsaw users.

Back cutting lower then the notch is a no-no in my book. Easily pinches the bar and its stuck until the pressure is relieved. If the tree falls with your saw pinched you might need a new chainsaw if the but of the tree falls on it. Been there, done that. I think most chainsaw owners manuals tell you the same.

Not trying to tell him how the experienced big boys cut their big timber for logs. Woodcutters like myself cut trees all different sizes,saplings to + 40 inch trunks for different reasons under various conditions. Trying to be safe I aim to keep a priority. Falling trees on slopes often in excess of 50 degrees, often slick from ice, mud or snow i don't like to carry a lot on my side. A couple 6 inch wedges that I usually pound with a piece of wood to get a wedge in when I need it. When I need the axe and bigger wedges they come out of the truck and follow me around for when they are needed. When i am cutting in front of ditch cleaners I would be holding their equipment up if I took to much time wedging and making loggers cuts on all the trees.
As much as I try to stay a bit high from the bottom of the notch, I miss the mark once in a while and the saw gets pinched now and then. Usually I can get it out one way or another , no harm. The worse occasion I was on the slope of an snowy ditch bank about 60 degrees and my low hour 066 mag got pinched as the tree started to fall. I let go to keep from sliding into the ditch and as I was crawling up and out of the ditch the butt of the tree slipped off the stump and slid down the bank with the saw underneath it and crushed it between the butt of the tree and the thick ice on the bottom of the ditch.

 

[Rob Stafari]

Now I am confused. It really doesn't take any more time to make proper cuts and throw a wedge or two in. Certainly far less than it does to fight with a pinched saw or recover a smashed saw from the bottom of a ditch. Slow, steady, and methodical wins the race every time. You might not come in first, but making it to the end is winning in my book...

 

[Brushwacker]

Now I am confused. It really doesn't take any more time to make proper cuts and throw a wedge or two in. Certainly far less than it does to fight with a pinched saw or recover a smashed saw from the bottom of a ditch. Slow, steady, and methodical wins the race every time. You might not come in first, but making it to the end is winning in my book...

I agree.
I don't know if anyone gets it, but what I have been referring to is to you can learn from my mistakes, not go out there and do them.

 

[northmanlogging]

I find your mumbo jumbo confusing opposition to what I much am certain is simple good advice for inexperienced chainsaw users.

Not trying to tell him how the experienced big boys cut their big timber for logs. Woodcutters like myself cut trees all different sizes,saplings to + 40 inch trunks for different reasons under various conditions. Trying to be safe I aim to keep a priority. Falling trees on slopes often in excess of 50 degrees, often slick from ice, mud or snow i don't like to carry a lot on my side. A couple 6 inch wedges that I usually pound with a piece of wood to get a wedge in when I need it. When I need the axe and bigger wedges they come out of the truck and follow me around for when they are needed. When i am cutting in front of ditch cleaners I would be holding their equipment up if I took to much time wedging and making loggers cuts on all the trees.
As much as I try to stay a bit high from the bottom of the notch, I miss the mark once in a while and the saw gets pinched now and then. Usually I can get it out one way or another , no harm. The worse occasion I was on the slope of an snowy ditch bank about 60 degrees and my low hour 066 mag got pinched as the tree started to fall. I let go to keep from sliding into the ditch and as I was crawling up and out of the ditch the butt of the tree slipped off the stump and slid down the bank with the saw underneath it and crushed it between the butt of the tree and the thick ice on the bottom of the ditch.

the ditch diggers can wait, they are in their climate controlled bubble, getting paid hourly. If they wanna bitch cut slower, they get louder, walk off, **** em, your safety is by far a bigger concern then their whiny zit covered *****.

 

[RandyMac]

over cutting is an unredeemable sin.

 

[TheDarkLordChinChin]

Not cutting a notch and ending up with a tree sitting on your bar is a cardinal sin.

 

[young bucker]

Depends on the tree species as well..let’s say Douglas fir I’ll usually 4-5” opening on a 24” tree..and let say a twisted gross maple I’d get a birds mouth in and have a massive opening..the cleaner the better.

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

I usually just clean my notch with my ax , I'm forever getting dutchmen so I chop them out clean it up with the saw and I never cut with out an ax.
I find on small trees (not intended for lumber) the notches have to be more precise because they aren't helped by all the ton'age of a big tree. I think the big ones really are exciting to drop but the USDA changed some of their new cutter recommendations based on the number of people killed by 8" dbh trees.
I cut only problem trees with multiple targets(historic land marks)or severe damage (hurricanes, fire,lightning) as part of my job, every tree is different and a learning experience a good mitigation plan and escape plan is part of every tree for me . How I drop trees is different from my friend who cut commercial production, other trees were his only concern and I don't like to cut trees at knee level or lower .
Anyway I'm not in a hurry to get killed or destroy a building so take your time is my best advice and watch people who get the drop right and the tree falls where they say it will , dont bother listening to "know it alls "or YouTube" chainsaw preachers", every tree is different and sometimes you won't know one's hollow till your saws buried in it. Let the Cavalier do what they like and you do the safe thing.

 

[northmanlogging]

I usually just clean my notch with my ax , I'm forever getting dutchmen so I chop them out clean it up with the saw and I never cut with out an ax.
I find on small trees (not intended for lumber) the notches have to be more precise because they aren't helped by all the ton'age of a big tree. I think the big ones really are exciting to drop but the USDA changed some of their new cutter recommendations based on the number of people killed by 8" dbh trees.
I cut only problem trees with multiple targets(historic land marks)or severe damage (hurricanes, fire,lightning) as part of my job, every tree is different and a learning experience a good mitigation plan and escape plan is part of every tree for me . How I drop trees is different from my friend who cut commercial production, other trees were his only concern and I don't like to cut trees at knee level or lower .
Anyway I'm not in a hurry to get killed or destroy a building so take your time is my best advice and watch people who get the drop right and the tree falls where they say it will , dont bother listening to "know it alls "or YouTube" chainsaw preachers", every tree is different and sometimes you won't know one's hollow till your saws buried in it. Let the Cavalier do what they like and you do the safe thing.

As a minor Youtube chainsaw knowitallpreacher, Couldn't agree more.

Worked around a lot of self described "experts" and nearly all of em had me concerned enough to stay out of range.

 

[Trdoldtreecutter]

In my experience, its much easier to clean an undercut where the angled cut is made below the level cut. I will often times come slightly short of matching so as to avoid sawing past where I wanted to on the aiming cut. I will sometimes make my first cut angled down if I need a wide face when I don’t want the face to close before It hits the ground. An example of this is is tall trunks left after topping or very dead trees. There are a few tricks I use on hardwoods to avoid barber chair which can be very important on steep ground or while topping but a wide face isn’t one of them although a clean undercut is helpful. There are times when a non clean undercut may be made on purpose to capture lean to avoid heavy wedging or a kicker placed inside one corner to help swing or make a quick adjustment while a large tree is falling. These cases would be best left where there is room to practice. I’m very mindful of a back cut above the undercut if I’m topping a tree that is going to rub hard through other trees. This gives it something to catch on after the hinge wood has broke. There can also be a time to be under the undercut with the back cut as the wood will pull harder on that side in some cases. To me , one of the most important things is to stay around 1/3 diameter with the undercut if lean is not easily determined or a concern. I worked with (bucked for) a couple different guys that started falling with the misery whip. They said they would saw the aiming cut and chop the top part out. It was more interesting to learn the tricks they used when bucking on steep ground although they had a lot of falling tricks as well.

 

[slowp]

Flat ground production cutting--my favorite picture. This unit had a judge decide the logging system--skyline up to road. This was at the top of the unit. Fallers in that area carry wedges, axe, lunch, water, shovel, little fire extinguisher, extra chains etc. They start at the bottom of units and work up the hill. Yup, these guys probably wedged a few trees. They were pretty good, and I hope still are.

 

[woodfarmer]

I guess Brushwacker followed his own advice and let a tree drop the saw across his leg for nasty cut.

 

[Ripandsplit]

Well I was taught from watching blokes who knew what they were doing . All Humboldt scarfs and found a tall stump and put tank after tank threw just practising angles and cut depths and learning where the end of my bar was as so I didn't over cut . I guess we all do things differently and nobody's way is any better or worse than the next. What ever works for you works for you . As long as it's safe saws are replaceable life is not. Production costs margins are never more important then a safe work place is my view.
Side note I didn't know what barbers chair ment quick Google and soon learnt. We call them tombstones over here . Not good what ever the name .
Best of luck with your manual falling it's only practise.

 

[olyman]

Really good stuff, I'm learning a bunch

impossible...………….

 

[Westboastfaller]

impossible...………….

You got that right
They say,, "You can tell an Englishman.. but you can't tell him much"