info on small truck body

[Bearcreek]

You can get a scissor hoist and electric over hydraulic set up for that truck for about 1600. Building a bed for a small truck like that is not hard if you have some basic fabbing skills and equipment or you may be able to find a decent used flatbed and modify it. I would stay away from to much hanging back of the axle though, especially considering the size of the truck. BTW, everything in the drivetrain of the 3500 and 2500 manual tranny Dodge Cummins trucks is rated for at least 16,000 gvw. The limitation on capacity is mostly because of the suspension and brakes.

 

[limbwalker54]

Greenstar,

Hear me out on this. The ratio of weight distribution forward of an axle to rear of an axle should be positive. When you set the pivot point behind the rear axle as to make the overhang greater than the front, not only do you overload the rear axle, but you risk lifting the front end of the truck off the ground when dumping (should a load stick). When you see the Asplundh chip dumps, you will see that there is quite an overhang, but if you measure, the overhang in the rear is less than the front.

The exception is when there is heavy equipment, like a bucket, that adds more weight to the middle of the truck. The pivot point in this case can be at a point where the body is centered over the axle. However, this is only due to the weight of the bucket assembly.

What you wish to do with the I Pack seems like a nifty Idea, but why not mount the 8 foot chip body properly, and add two nice underbody boxes for your ropes and saws. On this small of a truck the I Pack is very impractical.

The axle cannot be slid back on the 3500's. The frame is not straight and the structure is not designed for the positioning that you can get out of a straight chassis truck.

Just my two cents of engineering.....

 

[treeclimber101]

hey guys,
I am about to build a small chip truck. I am going to get a used F-350 or something of that sort...What I would really like it to put a southco dump body on it. I haven't talked with southco yet, but my question to all of you out there is where can I find a used body, like a southco? Is there a depot somewhere in the south where I can get just the chip body? any help would be nice. Thanks

southco has a entire package built for asplunger for a 350 with the L box but the box is very small only like 7 yards , buy a stake body and put a roof on it . Southco bodies are rugid but very heavy i bought a whole truck bad 460 at auction with 4wd for 800.00

 

[treeclimber101]

I leave wood everywhere. People will take ANYTHING for free, as long as you provide the right outlet. ####, I carry cans of spray paint in the truck. I'll grab a scrap of wood, or cardboard box, and write "free wood -->" w/ and arrow pointed down the street, and put the sign up at the corner.
I also ran an ad on craigslist ONCE for free firewood. I got about 25 responses within 24hrs and had to pull my ad. Now I have a long list of people who will come get it. (of course you want to be a professional outfit, and liability issues tho, so u don't want random people walking on all your customers properties all the time.) But it works.
With the economy, and cost of fuel, at least out East in the city here. People want free firewood. You can give almost anything away for free. So we try not to lift a single log if we dont have to..
Wow, that was long!
My friends in Colorado have written right on their estimate sheets in fine print. "All good firewood will be cut into 4 foot lengths, or manageable sized pieces and piled in the vicinity of the tree." "Wood is a valuable natural resource, so we do not haul it to a landfills."

ANyway, I guess as a a smaller company, we can get away with that.
I guess it depends on the job, and the wood!
We roll try not to take wood , period!
Why truck it around, if its only going to get burnt anyway.
If you cut it up well enough for people to handle, and manage, and split themselves, they'll take it overnite if its out on the roadside.
Obviously sometimes its just easier to chip.
But depends on the situation.
I'm shooting for lowest possible overhead, because I'm also persuing a career in nursing! I cant do trees fulltime anymore dude! I'm going deaf in one ear. I have a bad rotator cuff, lower back, and getting arthritis in my hands from clenchin that rope so tight for 12 years!! Plus, I hate repeating myself to people, the same thing everyday. I could be content with 2-3 days of tree work per week.
Anyone else!?


Peace :greenchainsaw:

hey you want to see wood move fast paint "don't touch this wood its not free" it will be gone in the morning lol

 

[Greenstar]

You can get a scissor hoist and electric over hydraulic set up for that truck for about 1600. Building a bed for a small truck like that is not hard if you have some basic fabbing skills and equipment or you may be able to find a decent used flatbed and modify it. I would stay away from to much hanging back of the axle though, especially considering the size of the truck. BTW, everything in the drivetrain of the 3500 and 2500 manual tranny Dodge Cummins trucks is rated for at least 16,000 gvw. The limitation on capacity is mostly because of the suspension and brakes.

Can I modify the SUSPENSION and brakes fairly easy?
Any good, less expensive aftermarket brand, type, and source you might recommend?

 

[Greenstar]

Greenstar,

Hear me out on this. The ratio of weight distribution forward of an axle to rear of an axle should be positive. When you set the pivot point behind the rear axle as to make the overhang greater than the front, not only do you overload the rear axle, but you risk lifting the front end of the truck off the ground when dumping (should a load stick). When you see the Asplundh chip dumps, you will see that there is quite an overhang, but if you measure, the overhang in the rear is less than the front.

The exception is when there is heavy equipment, like a bucket, that adds more weight to the middle of the truck. The pivot point in this case can be at a point where the body is centered over the axle. However, this is only due to the weight of the bucket assembly.

What you wish to do with the I Pack seems like a nifty Idea, but why not mount the 8 foot chip body properly, and add two nice underbody boxes for your ropes and saws. On this small of a truck the I Pack is very impractical.

The axle cannot be slid back on the 3500's. The frame is not straight and the structure is not designed for the positioning that you can get out of a straight chassis truck.

Just my two cents of engineering.....

I hear ya about the ratio of weight distribution forward of axle to rear being positive. That makes total sense to me now. This would also prevent speed wobbles during cornering I assume as well. This makes total sense!

But I do want the I-box on there, without question! I'm not gonna build a truck unless I have that...
??Hmmm, unless of course maybe there's a way to put toolboxes which are easily accessible on top of the cab,...
Hmmmm... which I've never thought of until now, but have planned on building a shelf over the cab anyway, with a step ladder affixed to side, for surplus oil holding tank, pick-up hose, and other dirtier things that maybe wouldn't always want to put in I-pack.. etc..

I've had largest capacity under bed toolboxes for a while now and they just do not fit the amount of tools I like to carry. I am tired of the cab being filled with such tools as well. I would rather have to go dump chips a little more frequently. than always having to scramble to find tools, or not having what I need alwasy on hand.
We like to do occasional landscape jobs, and stone. Also like to have my mechanics tools with me for fixing chipper, or maintenance, also extra supplies is nice. Saves trips to Cleaves.

ARE YOU SURE I CANNOT EXTEND THE AXLE ON THIS dodge 3500?
After dude above recommended this, I have been all psyched and on board for doing this. Its seems like the right way to go really.

 

[Bearcreek]

Is your truck a regular or extended cab? I've built dump beds for both. If its an extended cab I would not try to lengthen the frame. When you start making a wheelbase that long you quickly lose the advantage of a smaller truck and might as well get one thats going to handle more weight. The dodge chassis cab trucks that have 10 or 11 foot beds have the same wheelbase and frame length as the extended cab pickups. If you want the extra length for the tool box I would sell your pickup and look for a chassis cab. Another thing to keep in mind as you look for a bed is that the industry standard frame rail width is 34 in. Thats what most boxes are built for. The dodge's have 37 3/4 frame rail width, so you would have to modify the box or the subframe to fit the truck.

 

[Greenstar]

Its an extended cab. But the wheelbase is not that long. I measured it up right up next to my ford reg cab F350 dump and its not much longer. The turning radius is almost the same.
The reason I wanted the smaller truck is def for the turning radius, however, I am aware that lengthening this increases turning radius exponentially.
So I do not want to lengthen much at all. In all honesty, I didn't even want to in the least bit, and was just going to sacrifice almost 18" of bed space by building a shorter dump (still at over 6' high will hold a lot of chips).
But after dude's post above, I sort of hear what he is saying... if I am going to be doing all that cuting and welding, I might as well do it right, and just lengthen slightly.

So I am really hoping I can get away with only lengthening wheelbase maybe 12-16" tops tops!! Absolutely no more than that.

What do you think man?

 

[Bearcreek]

Can I modify the SUSPENSION and brakes fairly easy?
Any good, less expensive aftermarket brand, type, and source you might recommend?

You can put extra springs in and an air suspension system. Not sure about brands for that. I've built several trucks using venco hoists and they have help up well. Look them up and you should be able to find a dealer in your area. Only thing that you can really do that I know of on the brakes would be to replace the rear drums with disc. Your truck may already have them. I believe dodge went to rear discs in '02. If you don't have them you can get aftermarket kits to switch over or you can look for a rear axle from a newer truck and switch them out. Keep in mind that no matter what you do it does not technically increase the gvw of the truck. Even though the truck may be able to handle it fine the dot is still going to go by the numbers that were originally on the truck. Don't get me wrong, I "overload" my dodge fairly often, you just have to be careful.

 

[Greenstar]

Anyone have any other suggestions on BEST HOIST TO BUY ?

And WHAT SIZE DO I NEED?

I have priced out Venco and Rugby hoists. Looks like I'm gonna be running anywhere from $2,000-2,500 for new 10-ton hoists. (Venco VC416 or Rugby HR540) I was thinking something like this would be under $1,500, so I'm still looking around. I'm a little frustrated. Its lookin like the hoist is gonna cost me more than the whole bed. I can't believe these cost so much. Any suggestions guys?

I saw this one, but this looks a littl cheap. http://www.splitez.com/7_ton_Flatbed_truck_dump_hoist_kit.html plus, I don't know if it will have enough strength to lift it when its filled with two cords of green wood lets say!


Oh BTW, I got a Knapheide I-Box for $200 from junkyard next door from buddy's shop!! Great shape too. So f---in pumped! I got totally hooked up. I'm mad psyched!

 

[Greenstar]

You can get a scissor hoist and electric over hydraulic set up for that truck for about 1600. Building a bed for a small truck like that is not hard if you have some basic fabbing skills and equipment or you may be able to find a decent used flatbed and modify it. I would stay away from to much hanging back of the axle though, especially considering the size of the truck. BTW, everything in the drivetrain of the 3500 and 2500 manual tranny Dodge Cummins trucks is rated for at least 16,000 gvw. The limitation on capacity is mostly because of the suspension and brakes.

Bearcreek, any suggestions on where to buy my hoist? Maybe prices have gone up? idk.. but I've been searchin the last two days.
Could I go with Rugby HR520 OR do I need to go with the the HR540 for $200 more? Check out the specs: http://www.dejana.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=7 however, keep in mind I will probably get a used flatbed w/ wood floor, that I found in a junkyard, for $200, which is lighter. Then I may buy this big aluminum box truck (tell me what you think of this idea.) they have at the same junkyard. Its like 16' x 8' wide, so I'm sure it would be plenty big for a total custom job. They quoted me $800 for it. Full aluminum roof, back doors (which I could cut in half!), the whole nine!
What do you think of all this! Your opinion is appreciated.


ALSO, it looks like I can EXTEND THE FRAME. It just looks like I may need to reinforce the frame better, and do some fabbing as well to fit the spring perches in at the same angle, and same height!

 

[Bearcreek]

I don't know bro, sounds like a lot of bsing around. The Dodge's are great as a small chip truck or dump, but they do have their limitations. I'd love to see pictures and hear about how it works if you do do this conversion though. Especially the frame part. I have the Venco 416 hoist on my truck and its never failed to lift anything I wanted to dump. Don't know much about the Rugby hoists other than I think they tend to be more expensive. If I remember right, my hoist is rated at six tons, which is plenty for a one ton truck. I don't think you need to go with anything bigger than that. I bought it at a place called Best Truck in Willoughby OH. Maybe prices have gone up, not sure. I think it was about a year and a half ago I bought it. What kind of box truck is it your taking the box off? Are you talking about just using the aluminum panels or what? Make sure the flatbed is heavy duty enough to be used as a dump. Some of the flatbeds I've seen have crossmembers that ain't good for much beyond a light load of scrap. How heavy is the Knapheide box you got?

 

[woodchux]

I'm gonna save you a few dollars and show you where to get a 7.5 ton kit for $1000. Look at the bottom of the webpage in this link...http://www.piercearrow.us/7_5_ton_trailer_dump_kit.htm#7.5 Ton Trailer Dump Kit w-Hyd Pkg

 

[Greenstar]

Woodchux, my first question is WHERE did you find this man! Seems great deal. Is a Whats the difference of trailer hoist or truck hoist?

Also, is 7.5 ton enough strength? (for packed loads of chips, 2 cords green logs, occasional loads of dirt maybe, or stone?

Is Pierce a good brand?
The kit looks like its good quality, from what I can see in the picture at least.
No hinges however I dont think..


*Now I just need to decide if I should revisit buying a new hoist again, OR continue looking for an old used dumptruck parts truck just to buy for parts (used bed and hoist), which was my current plan after pricing hoists and finding they were going to cost me $2,000+.

 

[Greenstar]

I don't know bro, sounds like a lot of bsing around. The Dodge's are great as a small chip truck or dump, but they do have their limitations. I'd love to see pictures and hear about how it works if you do do this conversion though. Especially the frame part. I have the Venco 416 hoist on my truck and its never failed to lift anything I wanted to dump. Don't know much about the Rugby hoists other than I think they tend to be more expensive. If I remember right, my hoist is rated at six tons, which is plenty for a one ton truck. I don't think you need to go with anything bigger than that. I bought it at a place called Best Truck in Willoughby OH. Maybe prices have gone up, not sure. I think it was about a year and a half ago I bought it. What kind of box truck is it your taking the box off? Are you talking about just using the aluminum panels or what? Make sure the flatbed is heavy duty enough to be used as a dump. Some of the flatbeds I've seen have crossmembers that ain't good for much beyond a light load of scrap. How heavy is the Knapheide box you got?

2 big guys could maybe BARELY lift the Knapheid box. Its a little heavier than I thought it was going to be. ...just looked, it weighs 481 lbs.

I was going to buy a used Reading flatbed I saw on craigslist for $300. The only thing is, is that I would have to have a headache rack and strong cab/i-pack shield (because I want the box to overhang the box and cab some..?maybe 3 feet??) so I would have to have some heavy duty reinforcement headache screen, AND cab shield supported.

THEN the aluminum box, which ooks kinda like an old bread truck or something, but pretty big. Maybe more like a very large service truck or something, BUT very light weight, and long. I would see if I could buy that for maybe $600 and then just trace out the perfect shape on it, cut it off, and weld it onto flatbed and headache, and overhang! Is this all sound like a decent idea folks!
This box truck looks clean, and tight!
I'm thinking with a little reinforcing on the inside, e.g. a few vertical support beams on the inside of the walls it could be a pretty successful decent custom truck, no! :bringit:

 

[Bearcreek]

481 lbs is light, man. Any flatbed that's heavy duty enough for tree work is going to weigh that much, easy. I'd go with the knapheide box. Lot less messing around and you get a box thats heavy duty enough for the job.

 

[Greenstar]

Oops... small misunderstanding I think..
Knapheide TOOL box is just an i-pack, backpack toolbox. Nothing to do with the bed.

Dude, what do u think about this 7.5 ton trailer hoist woodchux has turned me onto here? I just called them, and the guy is going to get back to me on a shipping cost. http://www.piercearrow.us/7.5 Ton Trailer Dump Kit Specifications.pdf Its on sale right now for a thousand even. Plus probably 1-2hundred dollars shipping up to mass.

 

[limbwalker54]

I would not lengthen the frame or move the axle on a truck unless it has a "straight chassis" frame design. The stresses involved will change the behavior of the entire way the truck distributes weight.

It sounds like you would be better suited with a small cab over diesel that would definitely fit the body you want and could be short, and even have a better turning radius.

Watch out DOT if you decide to do cutting and welding on a frame that is of that particular design. Especially if you move the axle.

My dollars worth!

 

[Greenstar]

If the change is subtle, e.g. 18-20" wheelbase extension max, and the bed, chipbox, and whole shebang look pro, things blend, mods look quality, tight, and heavy duty, and suspension upgraded so that the truck never sits low or looks overloaded, do you really think I'm going to have a problem?
I mean, I intend on having this look very pro. I run a pretty good tree business, so I want it to look pro, most definitely! I intend on having the ride height sit correctly as well, with sufficient add-a-leafs in back.

I would tend to think I wouldn't have much of a problem as long as the job is done quality, and it doesn't look like I've created some bus thats going down the road. What are they going to do?

Do you still REALLY think I'm going to have a problem?
Do you know about Dodge trucks?
Yes, I would wish to have a nice cab-over, BUT this Cummins diesel 12valve is a very good motor I've heard, AND can run on straight grease (SVO), the truck is very clean, I already have it (I paid $7,500 for it), it has new transmission, and ....I cannot afford a decent cabover WITH EXTENDED CAB, which I want badly like this dodge has!

Thanks for your input.

 

[Bearcreek]

My bad. Thought you were taking about a box. 7.5 ton is plenty, my hoist is rated for six and they say you can put it on a 12 foot bed. Mine's an 8 ft. and its never had a problem lifting anything I put in. How you gonna fit two cords of wood in a 7 ft. bed?