is anyone else anoyed with cheap tree triming services?

[voxac30dude]

so today i went to bid out a job next to a condo by the beach where one of my friends lives. he was telling me how disappointed he is with the tree service they hired so, i walked around with him and saw why he was soo angry. they left ladder scratches all over their mango tree's and didn't even make the cuts right. they left stubs from where the branches where that protruded out 3-6 inches from where the cambium layer starts. they also had tons of split branches that where not cut right. on those branches the cambium layer was completely split down the middle like they didn't make any wedge cuts. on top of all of this sloppyness there where deep gashes above the cuts where they let the saw dig into the trunk. i looked these guys up and they say they are certified under the ISA but i think need more schooling.

 

[outofmytree]

Nah. They don't annoy me. I love it when clowns like that roll in. I get paid to fix their stuff ups.

You are on the right track walking the job with a client. Talk to them about why bad cuts are bad. Remember you have 2 ears and 1 mouth and when talking to clients use them in that ratio. Ask them what they thought they were getting and what they want for their trees in the long term. People will tell you how much they will pay if you ask them the right questions. Try saying, "so what's your budget for this job at the moment?" At least 50% will tell you on the spot.

Have fun with it mate cos crying doesn't work.

 

[treeslayer]

Nah. They don't annoy me. I love it when clowns like that roll in. I get paid to fix their stuff ups.

You are on the right track walking the job with a client. Talk to them about why bad cuts are bad. Remember you have 2 ears and 1 mouth and when talking to clients use them in that ratio. Ask them what they thought they were getting and what they want for their trees in the long term. People will tell you how much they will pay if you ask them the right questions. Try saying, "so what's your budget for this job at the moment?" At least 50% will tell you on the spot.

Have fun with it mate cos crying doesn't work.

:agree2:

And it was probably landscrapers, they leave the ground and:censored: everything up.

 

[BRCCArborist]

Sounds like your friend should have called you the first time instead.

 

[danieltree]

Is shotty work by an ISA certified Arborist reportable. Who holds us accountable.​

 

[treeslayer]

Is shotty work by an ISA certified Arborist reportable. Who holds us accountable.​

Anybody is reportable to the BBB it has to start somewhere, have it called in.

 

[lxt]

Anybody is reportable to the BBB it has to start somewhere, have it called in.

The "BBB" wont do anything in my area unless you are a member, they`re more like a remedy solution & by being a member shows the public you have went the xtra step to insure that you will do whats needed to make it right!

The "BBB" in my opinion is a joke, I know many members that screw people all the time....then the HO calls a reputable service to fix it because they feel the process of reporting & waiting wont do them any good anyway!!!

Supposedly the ISA is going to send out a code of ethics we are to follow, I think if a cert. arborist does verifiable crappy work he should be reported & upon verification by the ISA should be reprimanded or given a Credential Grade that can be viewed!! for instance John Doe Cert# ******** grade "D" ......meaning his work is below average & so on!!!

Boy...would we really bust on people here then, But I think that might be what is needed...embarass them! however.... what do ya do when someone insists on a butcher job?????? IDK


LXT................

 

[treeslayer]

thats a local thing maybe, in some areas they are decent.

The ISA unfortunately has little regulatory control, (no one does in this industry) so the only real recourse is public knowledge via a reporting agency.

business licensing and tax evasion are possibilities that come to mind though, if ya wanna get vicious.

 

[treemandan]

Well, I guess the answer would have to be yes but that is cause I am pretty much annoyed by everybody. I suppose that is more my problem than it is theirs though huh?

Some demographics just can't afford it so you have these guys who advertise " CHEAP TREE SERVICE". Some people also don't take much stock in trees so the less the better for them and hell, they could be rich as Rockerfeller.
I do think its quite an abomination to have words like " cheap" or " low cost" in a business name. " Affordable" isn't so bad but that is splitting hairs.
My mechanic just opened a shop, he named it " Affordable Auto Care". He has good experiance, knowledge and skill and updated tools. The place is not a dump, he is not an idiot and he has good help. Hell, I have been asking him for work!
I think its bad when comparing apples to apples and some guy comes in saying " Oh, that is to much! I can do it way cheaper!" We all know what it takes to do this work so there is no kidding anyone. That guy is hurting himself and the industry but its a whole nother thing when you do a job for cheap because you have a good reason to.
In all honesty I would say that if the tree industry people had to have simular credentials as those who do electical, plumbing, or things like that it would probably be better for all... except those looking for a cheap tree service.

 

[outofmytree]

however.... what do ya do when someone insists on a butcher job?????? IDK


LXT................

Just say no.

If your "client" wants (for example) their significant tree cut in half tell them why it's a bad idea. Keep a photo file of good pruning and bad pruning. Give them the (ISA?) "why topping is bad" brochure. Refer them to websites which explain this in detail. The way you do it is your own style but never let your "client" "force" you to do bad work.

I am sure someone will jump on and say "times are bad I take all work". In response I tell you, the reason times are bad is because you take all work.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." - Alexander Hamilton

 

[treeslayer]

I always tell em no thanks. if I butcher it, he'll tell people I did it. nope, I only want good examples of my work out there.

 

[Toddppm]

so today i went to bid out a job next to a condo by the beach where one of my friends lives. he was telling me how disappointed he is with the tree service they hired so, i walked around with him and saw why he was soo angry. they left ladder scratches all over their mango tree's and didn't even make the cuts right. they left stubs from where the branches where that protruded out 3-6 inches from where the cambium layer starts. they also had tons of split branches that where not cut right. on those branches the cambium layer was completely split down the middle like they didn't make any wedge cuts. on top of all of this sloppyness there where deep gashes above the cuts where they let the saw dig into the trunk. i looked these guys up and they say they are certified under the ISA but i think need more schooling.

You guys understood this ? Where exactly does the "cambium layer" start on the trees over there?

 

[voxac30dude]

i ment the cambium of the branch. i was thinking bark layer at the same time.

anyways. i don't wanna be an A$$ hole but i also wanna report them to the BBB because they are messing things up here. this isn't the first place they have done and left it in horrible condition. they have been doing jobs with the sate and have been going around topping tree's too.

it is sooo important to maintain good healthy tree's here because are market works off of tourism. the hotels and time share condo's rent units out to people on vacation and im sure no one wants to see dead or un healthy tree's.
the condo where all this happend has some of the best mango's you will ever eat in your life. and those guys ruined the tree for next fruiting season(fall). all of this is really encouraging me to go to college and get a degree in horticulture and get my ISA cert.

 

[Hddnis]

Yeah, the BBB is a total joke. I had a lady that I never worked for in any way shape or form get mad at me; she didn't like my politics and didn't like me lobbying for what I believe is right. So she called the BBB to complain.

They then nagged and called me every few weeks, trying every trick they could think of to get me to join.

Things like "We've had in inquiry about your company and want to give a good report but we can't because you are not a member."

It got to "Look, someone complained about you and in order to process this case we need you to cooperate so we can do a full investigation."

One time the lady said "If you don't join and give us the information we need you will lose business. I know I would tell people to never hire your company because you don't care about taking care of your customers."

She and the BBB got a letter explaining libel and telling them to cease and desist with harassing contact.

Never heard from them again, but it sure left a very bad taste. I know how it all started because I confronted the lady who didn't like me and she admitted she made the call to the BBB. She said "Your side was winning all the votes and anything is fair in war."


Mr. HE

 

[Hddnis]

The thing to remember is that no matter what work you do you are always competing against other people who will do the same work. They will either do it cheaper or they will do better work for the same price, basically somehow offer a better value. It may only be perceived as a better value by the customer, but that is who you have to sell to in the end.

I think turning them in to organizations or agencies is basically admitting that you can't survive and you are calling in the bogey men to do your dirty work and make your life easier. In the end that will bite you every time.

What you have to do is make sure you know what your game is and be sure you are at the top of your game. Your very first sales contact has to convey that you compete on total job value, not just price. If the customer can't understand that then you have to move on. Remember to never do a job you can't be proud of.


Mr. HE

 

[danieltree]

The thing to remember is that no matter what work you do you are always competing against other people who will do the same work. They will either do it cheaper or they will do better work for the same price, basically somehow offer a better value. It may only be perceived as a better value by the customer, but that is who you have to sell to in the end.

I think turning them in to organizations or agencies is basically admitting that you can't survive and you are calling in the bogey men to do your dirty work and make your life easier. In the end that will bite you every time.

What you have to do is make sure you know what your game is and be sure you are at the top of your game. Your very first sales contact has to convey that you compete on total job value, not just price. If the customer can't understand that then you have to move on. Remember to never do a job you can't be proud of.


Mr. HE

I agree with you 100 percent but to have an ISA certified arborist doing obviously inferior work and to not be able to hold persons that advertise with that credential accountable to an industry standard is frustrating to say the least. Seems that would downgrade the importance of certification in the eyes of the educated customer and hurt our business industry wide.

 

[lxt]

Just say no.

If your "client" wants (for example) their significant tree cut in half tell them why it's a bad idea. Keep a photo file of good pruning and bad pruning. Give them the (ISA?) "why topping is bad" brochure. Refer them to websites which explain this in detail. The way you do it is your own style but never let your "client" "force" you to do bad work.

I am sure someone will jump on and say "times are bad I take all work". In response I tell you, the reason times are bad is because you take all work.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." - Alexander Hamilton

I do what you have mentioned & I have walked away from some jobs!, as a matter of fact just recently for similar!

However, I am Invited to quote(ITQ) for the state this year, in the past I have scoffed at the chance due to the way they let the contractors trim, so many ft from center of the road ground to sky! no collar cuts, no laterals either flush or stubs wherever that footage marker puts em!!

The only thing the state cares about is who`s cheaper, If they cared about the trees I could hear it now from the tax payers.....& this is the problem. So I am faced with a dilema on this one??? BTW, the State manager for PennDot on this job is an ISA Certified Arborist.........Hmm nothing like condoning shoddy work!

The contract does pay good & They`re interested in my service, I have looked at the work involved & to do proper work will be more time consuming, Hmmm the new year dilema????



LXT..............

 

[Hddnis]

I agree with you 100 percent but to have an ISA certified arborist doing obviously inferior work and to not be able to hold persons that advertise with that credential accountable to an industry standard is frustrating to say the least. Seems that would downgrade the importance of certification in the eyes of the educated customer and hurt our business industry wide.

I can certainly see that viewpoint. I'm not part of the ISA, those that are should have some say in this.

From what I've seen that will get nasty. It would likely mean a drop in membership as people took sides over specific jobs. This isolation might degrade the industry more than a few botched jobs.



Mr. HE

 

[Dillweed]

ISA Certification is a misleading credential. Anybody that can read at a sixth grade level should have no trouble passing the test. The general public doesn't know this.

 

[danieltree]

As far as I can tell its about the only thing that separates us from landscapers and yard boys. Passing the test is not the issue, When you get certified you agree to follow an industry standard. Without licensing and certification there is nothing there for the customer to judge a companies qualifications. Six pack Joe may or may not do a good job but a certified arborist should always do a good job. And when the customer shops for an arborist they should know that. If we are not held to a standard then why have certification. Plumbers and electricians answer when they screw up and are held liable for these screw ups . Why not an arborist.​