Is the MS460 Magnum Weak?

[Wood Doctor]

I asked a logger buddy who fells and bucks big logs (about two-thirds cottonwood for sawmills) if he could use a good Stihl MS 460 Magnum instead of either an MS 650 or 660. His "money" saw today is the MS 660, but he also used 650s for several years.

He said, "forget it" because he needs to run a 36" bar and the 460 is too weak and won't pull it, even when cutting lowly cottonwood. I was a bit taken back by that. Is he right?

Forum, please advise and discuss.

 

[porsche965]

I wouldn't say they are "weak", but against a 660 running a 36" bar it is difficult to beat displacement. But bring on a good ported 460 and it certainly closes the gap IMO.

 

[StihlyinEly]

Cottonwood is a soft hardwood, like aspen. I've cut a #### load of it. Pretty easy to cut. But even in that a 460 won't pull a 36-inch B&C unless the saw is ported. The 460 is a strong saw, not a weak one. But, given the context, I can see why he'd use the word "weak" to describe it. It's certainly too weak in stock condition to do what he routinely needs a saw to do. Cottonwoods can reach gargantuan diameters near the base, and IMO a 90cc saw is the price of admission for that there picture show. My ported 660 wears a 36-inch full comp B&C, and I'd put a 42 B&C with skip chain on it and it would do OK in cottonwood.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

I asked a logger buddy who fells and bucks big logs (about two-thirds cottonwood for sawmills) if he could use a good Stihl MS 460 Magnum instead of either an MS 650 or 660. His "money" saw today is the MS 660, but he also used 650s for several years.

He said, "forget it" because he needs to run a 36" bar and the 460 is too weak and won't pull it, even when cutting lowly cottonwood. I was a bit taken back by that. Is he right?

Forum, please advise and discuss.

What is cottonwood used for when it's milled?

 

[Wood Doctor]

Pallets Make Sense

What is cottonwood used for when it's milled?

Mostly to make pallets for shipping. I have used it to make outdoor furnishings.

 

[VikingDrive]

What is cottonwood used for when it's milled?

Pallets, Crates Packaging.

 

[StihlyinEly]

Pallets, Crates, Packaging.

Yup. Not particularly strong, not water resistant, not worth much as lumber.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

The loggers are around here run 20" and 24" bars on the 660's
And if they need to run a 36" bar they keep a 880 around for that.

Yeah a 36" bar is too much for a 460, hell with the wood we cut around here
you need a ported 660 to run that bar well.

 

[StihlyinEly]

The loggers are around here run 20" and 24" bars on the 660's
And if they need to run a 36" bar they keep a 880 around for that.

Real hardwoods will do that to a fella. Cottonwood cuts about as soft as most SPF, and that's a pretty easy ride.

 

[KenJax Tree]

A 460 is an awesome saw for its intended purpose and a 36" bar isn't what its intended for. A 200t is a hotrod but wouldn't do well with a 20" bar. Follow me?

 

[corsair4360]

Ms460

I'll bite. My 460 (admittedly not stock) pulls a 28" bar well. I used to have a 038 Magnum II with a 32" bar. I have cut many oaks and pines and it works really well. However, I would not want to run much longer than a 36" on it. My saw has the exhaust modified, the muffler port is roughly tie size of the port in the cylinder now. After doing that I had to remove the limiting high speed mixture device, and it is now running great, and pulls great with a skip tooth chain. The saw is noisier now that stock, but it runs much better. I suspect with a mild woods tune it would pull the 36" bar fine. However the saw is better balanced with a 28" which is all I need around here.

 

[2dogs]

I'll bite. My 460 (admittedly not stock) pulls a 28" bar well. I used to have a 038 Magnum II with a 32" bar. I have cut many oaks and pines and it works really well. However, I would not want to run much longer than a 36" on it. My saw has the exhaust modified, the muffler port is roughly tie size of the port in the cylinder now. After doing that I had to remove the limiting high speed mixture device, and it is now running great, and pulls great with a skip tooth chain. The saw is noisier now that stock, but it runs much better. I suspect with a mild woods tune it would pull the 36" bar fine. However the saw is better balanced with a 28" which is all I need around here.

You have some monster eucs down your way. My MS460 is a screamer with just a DP cover and a 28" bar but I would want many more cc's to pull a big bar in euc.

 

[blsnelling]

IMHO, a MS460 isn't a 36" bar saw no matter how you look at it. However, by no means does that mean it's a weak saw. Quite the opposite matter of fact. A muffler mod is a huge must though. They are super restricted.

 

[Alex D]

How big are these cottonwoods/poplar on avg when a 36" bar is required? As most poplars around here are 20-30" although I have seen some around the 40" but they usually have three trunks in one with the absolute base being that big. Although I suppose it is worth mentioning Ontario's largest tree diameter wise is a 9 foot popular.

 

[Arrowhead]

I love 460's. Like everybody else mentioned... 36" is too big. I love a 25" on my ported 460.
Now... if a dual port 460 and a 660 were both wearing 20" bars in cottonwood, the 460 might edge it out.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Monsters

How big are these cottonwoods/poplar on avg when a 36" bar is required? As most poplars around here are 20-30" although I have seen some around the 40" but they usually have three trunks in one with the absolute base being that big. Although I suppose it is worth mentioning Ontario's largest tree diameter wise is a 9 foot popular.

My friend cuts huge cottonwoods, so that's why I am sure he cannot opt for the 460 Mag. One time he brought one log in that was 5' diameter and 9' long. The mill won't pay for anything bigger than 42", so he ripped it down the center and got two logs out of it. Two passes on the rip with a 36" bar.

He actually likes the MS 660 more than the MS 880 or the old 084 because the 660 is lighter in weight. Quite a logger, he and one other guy brought in 700 logs this past January, not bad for a one-month haul. That's about 20 flat-bed loads. They let me have a few tops and smaller (non-cottonwood) trees for firewood because the mill won't accept anything under 16" dia. It was some of the best firewood I have ever cut. I used my MS 361 for most of it, but I think a 460 Mag would have been nice on occasion.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Hooray 372!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[StihlyinEly]

Most of the Populus species are water hogs, but cottonwood may be the all time champ among the poplars when it comes to sucking up and holding water. It's one of the reasons they grow quickly, to such heights and such diameters. I've cut quite a few cottonwoods with 5-foot diameters at the face cut/back cut position, and a few thicker than that.

If you want to see a gusher, fall a cottonwood. Guy's pretty much gotta have waterproof Kevlar chaps right about then, or at least where I was doing all my cottonwood cutting on the semi-dry plains. :msp_w00t:

 

[Wood Doctor]

I agree.

Most of the Populus species are water hogs, but cottonwood may be the all time champ among the poplars when it comes to sucking up and holding water. It's one of the reasons they grow quickly, to such heights and such diameters. I've cut quite a few cottonwoods with 5-foot diameters at the face cut/back cut position, and a few thicker than that.

If you want to see a gusher, fall a cottonwood. Guy's pretty much gotta have waterproof Kevlar chaps right about then, or at least where I was doing all my cottonwood cutting on the semi-dry plains. :msp_w00t:

QFT. Cottonwoods can drench the sawyer. Whoever said this business was easy? Using an 084, I bucked this 37" dia. cottonwood last October. I assure you that an 046 Mag would have wondered why it was there:

 

[Alex D]

My friend cuts huge cottonwoods, so that's why I am sure he cannot opt for the 460 Mag. One time he brought one log in that was 5' diameter and 9' long. The mill won't pay for anything bigger than 42", so he ripped it down the center and got two logs out of it. Two passes on the rip with a 36" bar.

He actually likes the MS 660 more than the MS 880 or the old 084 because the 660 is lighter in weight. Quite a logger, he and one other guy brought in 700 logs this past January, not bad for a one-month haul. That's about 20 flat-bed loads. They let me have a few tops and smaller (non-cottonwood) trees for firewood because the mill won't accept anything under 16" dia. It was some of the best firewood I have ever cut. I used my MS 361 for most of it, but I think a 460 Mag would have been nice on occasion.

I see but what would you say is the avg size of tree he cuts?? Thinking aloud here but if the avg tree i was cutting was 30-50" or so Id probably use a 044/441/441 mtronic or even 460 with a 28" stihl ES light bar. However if the avg tree was over the 42" mark or if there where lots over this mark and they needed to be halved in order for the mill to take them then I would definately use a 660 with a 36" or 32" as this noodling or halving an entire 8 or 9 foot long log with a 42" plus diameter definately adds a new variable that puts it in 90cc territory.

The 120cc saws eg 084/088/3120 i dont think they have any all day everyday use in North America anymore. West coast fallers will I think usually own one or the company might have a few on hand for when they get into a strip with enormous trees but I think thats pretty rare nowadays.