Is there a reason for this?

[svk]

Yeah it's not the best way to dry wood

Sounds like a much better idea for timber management than yard trees.

 

[sunfish]

Sounds like a much better idea for timber management than yard trees.

It is...

 

[Oldmaple]

Ummmm..... that's not quite correct.
Yes the xylem is the wood, it transports water with dissolved minerals and nutrients from the roots to the leaves... but not just the outer two annual rings, all of the xylem (wood) does. The leaves then use photosynthesis to convert the minerals and nutrients into sugars... which are transported to other parts of the tree via the inner bark (phloem). Girdling the tree does not kill the top by starving it of water, minerals and nutrients, it kills the roots because the phloem has been severed, thereby starving the roots of sugars need for life. The reason some sprout after girdling is a survival mechanism... the roots sense they've lost the supply line connection from the leaves (the phloem), so they send up sprouts to produce new leaves, creating a new supply line
*.

I disagree. If the whole woody part of the trunk is active in transporting water and minerals, then by cutting the last few years xylem (the last couple of annual rings) the leaves wouldn't shrivel up and die. The rest of the trunk would take over and supply the water and minerals needed. At one time each annual ring supplied water to the corresponding years leaves. The phloem is in the bark and carries the sugars to the trunk and root systems where they are used for growth or stored. This is also severed when the tree is girdled and the growth of the sprouts is fed from the stored sugar in the root system. This is why the sprouting occurs below the girdling.

 

[lindnova]

I've had a 50/50 luck on killing Siberian elms by girdling. The larger ones seem to die, but the smaller ones tend to resprout. This is when I do it in winter.

I now girdle and use herbicide at the same time.

 

[CTYank]

I disagree. If the whole woody part of the trunk is active in transporting water and minerals, then by cutting the last few years xylem (the last couple of annual rings) the leaves wouldn't shrivel up and die. The rest of the trunk would take over and supply the water and minerals needed. At one time each annual ring supplied water to the corresponding years leaves. The phloem is in the bark and carries the sugars to the trunk and root systems where they are used for growth or stored. This is also severed when the tree is girdled and the growth of the sprouts is fed from the stored sugar in the root system. This is why the sprouting occurs below the girdling.

One should never argue with Spidey. About fluid transport in trees, it's well known that there's much variation by species in how many years' growth increment transports water & minerals upward. Only one does that in black locust. American chestnut has only 2 to 3 growth increments of sapwood, with tyloses forming in the second increment, leaving one growth increment of conducting sapwood.

White oak OTOH will often have 7 growth increments of conducting sapwood.

Once tyloses form in the transport vessels, that increment is then non-conducting sapwood. Extractives can then be deposited to add incrementally to heartwood.

The phloem is inside the bark, often some distance inside. Interesting differences with conifers & tropical trees also.

Really interesting reference: "Tree Anatomy" by Alex Shigo.

 

[Oldmaple]

One should never argue with Spidey. About fluid transport in trees, it's well known that there's much variation by species in how many years' growth increment transports water & minerals upward. Only one does that in black locust. American chestnut has only 2 to 3 growth increments of sapwood, with tyloses forming in the second increment, leaving one growth increment of conducting sapwood.

White oak OTOH will often have 7 growth increments of conducting sapwood.

Once tyloses form in the transport vessels, that increment is then non-conducting sapwood. Extractives can then be deposited to add incrementally to heartwood.

The phloem is inside the bark, often some distance inside. Interesting differences with conifers & tropical trees also.

Really interesting reference: "Tree Anatomy" by Alex Shigo.

I agree that how many layers of xylem are active in transporting water to the current years leaves varies between species but the xylem at the center of a 36" diameter Oak is no longer active in that process. As far as arguing with Spidey, I like to live on the edge (when I'm hiding behind the computer of course).

 

[Whitespider]

Semantics...

 

[slowp]

Perhaps it was part of the harvest plan? On private and public lands out here, it is common to leave trees for wildlife. I haven't seen girdling done for years. There was a death or two in Montana from folks working around snags made that way, and that kind of put a halt to it. Instead, live trees are left, or live trees are topped--I'm talking conifers. If a feller buncher is doing the cutting, they'll reach up as high as they can and top a tree there. If the ground is too steep, trees are climbed and topped. Explosives used to be used to top wildlife trees, but there were a couple of fatalities so that stopped.

You'll also see an occasional slash pile left and logs left on the ground for wildlife.

It's called mitigation. It soothes the anti-logging folks a bit and allows harvest to go on without as much litigation. It's a standard part of forestry out here.

 

[bert the turtle]

I've girdled some trees in the situation where I want them down to release other trees but don't have anywhere to put the firewood yet. Store it standing dead till I can get around to it.

 

[svk]

If you girdle in winter, will the tree attempt to leaf in the spring and further draw down the MC above the cut?

 

[bert the turtle]

The trees I girdled last year seemed to do OK this summer. Maybe they dropped their leaves a bit early this winter. The way I understand it, the roots are able to still send water up to the leaves on a girdled tree; it is the sugar transport from leaf to root that is interrupted. Eventually that does in the roots and the tree dies.

 

[cus_deluxe]

Just curious. I know that the majority of water goes through xylem/phloem. Does any water travel through the wood itself?

The only living tissue in the tree is that very outermost layer of xylem (what we know is wood is simply old dead xylem that still does conduct water passively, and obviously gives strength to the tree) the phloem (innermost layer of bark) transports sugars and whatnot from the leaves to the roots. girdling the tree disrupts food and water transport, and as said above usually used to create standing dead firewood storage (this may have been done at the request of property owner...

 

[cus_deluxe]

I agree that how many layers of xylem are active in transporting water to the current years leaves varies between species but the xylem at the center of a 36" diameter Oak is no longer active in that process. As far as arguing with Spidey, I like to live on the edge (when I'm hiding behind the computer of course).

If this is true then the center of a 36" oak tree would be dry. This is of course not true. Transpiration from the leaves draws water passively through the old conductive tissue (wood) from the roots. Maybe some of it gets clogged with resins to the point where it no longer conducts water, but generally its all one big water pump.

 

[1project2many]

If this is true then the center of a 36" oak tree would be dry. This is of course not true. Transpiration from the leaves draws water passively through the old conductive tissue (wood) from the roots. Maybe some of it gets clogged with resins to the point where it no longer conducts water, but generally its all one big water pump.

Plenty of hollow trees live to a ripe old age with no apparent problems to leaves or tree tops.

 

[cus_deluxe]

Plenty of hollow trees live to a ripe old age with no apparent problems to leaves or tree tops.

very true but not the norm. if the center exists it will be moist, hows that?

 

[1project2many]

very true but not the norm. if the center exists it will be moist, hows that?

Sounds fair to me. Since bark acts as a barrier keeping water and air out, it makes sense that it keeps sap in. The heartwood of a living hardwood tree usually has higher moisture content than the sapwood.

 

[old_soul]

The trees I girdled last year seemed to do OK this summer. Maybe they dropped their leaves a bit early this winter. The way I understand it, the roots are able to still send water up to the leaves on a girdled tree; it is the sugar transport from leaf to root that is interrupted. Eventually that does in the roots and the tree dies.

you probably wont believe this but I had a customer who hated his neighbors cottonwood tree because of the airborne fluff

It was about 80 foot tall and 3' diameter. When no one was around he took a chain saw and girdled the thing. I knew he was crazy, I knew he did it, and I expected to see a dead tree in the next summer. Every time I would drive past I would take a look and see if the leaves died off.

That was 4 years ago. I couldn't stand it any longer this fall. I parked and walked up to the trunk. The wounds had all healed over just like any regular pruning cut.

tree still seemed healthy, no dead limbs, no die back, never would have believed it had I not seen myself

 

[cus_deluxe]

you probably wont believe this but I had a customer who hated his neighbors cottonwood tree because of the airborne fluff

It was about 80 foot tall and 3' diameter. When no one was around he took a chain saw and girdled the thing. I knew he was crazy, I knew he did it, and I expected to see a dead tree in the next summer. Every time I would drive past I would take a look and see if the leaves died off.

That was 4 years ago. I couldn't stand it any longer this fall. I parked and walked up to the trunk. The wounds had all healed over just like any regular pruning cut.

tree still seemed healthy, no dead limbs, no die back, never would have believed it had I not seen myself

must not have been girdled properly

 

[tla100]

you probably wont believe this but I had a customer who hated his neighbors cottonwood tree because of the airborne fluff

It was about 80 foot tall and 3' diameter. When no one was around he took a chain saw and girdled the thing. I knew he was crazy, I knew he did it, and I expected to see a dead tree in the next summer. Every time I would drive past I would take a look and see if the leaves died off.

That was 4 years ago. I couldn't stand it any longer this fall. I parked and walked up to the trunk. The wounds had all healed over just like any regular pruning cut.

tree still seemed healthy, no dead limbs, no die back, never would have believed it had I not seen myself

Well, I cut into a rather large cottonwood this fall, cut into trunk about 2' up and about 6" deep all the way around. I did dowse in Tordon. I am sick of suckering and it is right by my garden. Anyway, hoping it dies. I stands about 50' tall.

 

[ijon1]

My horses girded a walnut tree. Killed it dead. I don't know what their reason was for doing it was. They are fed good. Walnut has to taste nasty.