Is this a good cut?

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At the risk of stating the obvious, once you cut through your hinge you no longer have a hinge, and you have lost control of the tree. There are special circumstances where you want to cut the hinge - to swing, jump or spin the tree.... But those are cuts for experienced fallers. They're most often done to save the tree for production purposes. Only very rarely would someone use a cut like that when trying to fall a tree an keep it clear of property etc, because they're not super accurate cuts. As Gerry Beranek would say 'to be used in matters of convenience, not in matters if necessity'.
 
Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah
 
Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah

Don't worry about it. You'll learn. You have to be really brave to post stump pictures. :msp_biggrin:
 
Hey if I didn't want my feeling hurt I wouldn't have posted hahaha, I'd rather have someone tell me it was bad and never do it again than say well this, this and this was justified. From now on I'll stick to the trees I know I can handle with less danger, don't fell alot of 40+ trees down here in the south hahah

Alright, I'll have another bite then.

Yes, it was horrible.

The F&L forum isn't the best place to ask this sort of question, but unfortunately we don't have a 'tree falling 101' forum. Maybe that's a good thing ;-) There are a small handfull of general rules for falling trees, and about 50,000 exceptions to those rules. The average firewood cutter is probably going to be fine with the handfull of rules, but the trouble is he often doesn't have the experience to assess when it's an exceptional case. The reason why you'll have a hard time getting a straight answer here, is that most of the guys in this forum are professional forestry workers, or have been at some stage in their lives. For these guys, it isn't as simple as just getting the tree on the ground.

Firstly, they've got to be productive. That means getting the tree on the ground in one piece, without breaking it. Then, they've got to get it down in such a way that it lines up with all the other trees so it can be handled efficiently. Then, they may have to swing it through places without damaging leave trees. Finally, they've got to be quick about it or they aren't going to make any money. For these, and other reasons, professional fallers often drop trees using methods that are not the safest or easiest way to get the tree on the ground. Because of that, they often will leave some real weird looking stumps.... just like the one you posted. The difference is that they did it on purpose, and for a reason. The cards are stacked in their favor for pushing the envelope too; they may be cutting many thousands of trees, in the same location, of the same species, and with room to work. That lets them get a feel for how conditions are for that species and growing condition.

But getting back to your stump, if your intention was a simple straight drop with a standard hinge, then it's a fail. You failed to keep your bar parallel to the face during the backcut, and consequently cut right through your hinge. That's something a professional faller may do intentionally for a specific purpose, but I'm guessing it was unintentional on your part. If you cut through your hinge, you lose control of the tree. The tree may swing wildly off to the side, or if it's a back leaner and you're pulling it over, and it hasn't yet commited to the fall then the pull cable may pull the butt right off the stump, particularly if you're pulling with a powerful source like a winch or vehicle and the cable is low in proprtion to the centre of balance of the tree. If it does pull the butt off the stump, the tree is going over backwards, onto you or whatever property is behind it (if there was nothing behind it, you would have just fallen it with the lay, right?).

Even if the tree has committed to the fall, if your bar tip has gone through the hinge as yours appears to have, then the tree can see-saw your saw, and send it flying. Possibly with your attached if you care for it more than you ought to.

Side-stepping, for a moment, the issue of which face cut is best for the task, the question of the percentage of face to holding wood, and the question of stump throw, For the most part you're well served by making whichever face you execute best, 1/3~3/8 the depth of the tree, and leaving around 10% holding wood, parallel as shown below. These are all acceptable stumps.

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Take a look at this thread for some good general advice on improving your cutting technique also;

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/233490.htm

Shaun
 
pretty well said imag. shear, I cut the hinge all the time but... as stated for a reason. never while pushing or pulling. if you had left some hinge the cut wouldn't be so bad. nerves can hurt ya, try ta stay calm and remember what your doin and why. hey we jus tryin ta help ya, don't take this as crit. so much as free lessons. :biggrin:
 
I meant no offense to ya bro, I guess when ya ask ya get answers sometimes they hurt but I'd say take it and mull it over think what was said and what you did. Most of what was said was from a safety and control angle (your safety), not a hit at ya.


I guess pro fallers have seen way to many accidents and folks hurt and I'd guess we all shudder when we see something that could have led to injury.


Hey if ya stood 10 fallers under that stick ya might well have got 10 slightly differing methods lol.


I bet if I posted pics on here I'd get the crap shot outta me for it lol


You'll get there keep it simple and safe
 
My feelings ant hurt guys! I'm happy I'm getting the answers I need, I rather me cussed out for doing something wrong than be told it was ok and get myself killed!!
 
My feelings ant hurt guys! I'm happy I'm getting the answers I need, I rather me cussed out for doing something wrong than be told it was ok and get myself killed!!

Welcome to the logging world lol ........but we don't cuss lol (we get banned of here lol)
 
none of us were there. you made it back to a keyboard, so it was ok

That's kind of like saying "well, you played russian roulette and nobody got hurt, so it can't be that dangerous".

Tree falling is a dangerous game, and near enough is not good enough. Some guys come on here posting pics ostensibly for advice when all they're looking for is a pat on the back. They then get their back up when people offer some useful advice. The OP came asking for critique, and welcomed it... which is the right attitude if you want to live a long life. There's many lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience on this forum, a lot of it specific to regions which is highly valuable information. Anyone hoping to improve themselves in the area of falling would do well to post here, people are generous of their knowledge. :clap:

Shaun
 
That's kind of like saying "well, you played russian roulette and nobody got hurt, so it can't be that dangerous".

Tree falling is a dangerous game, and near enough is not good enough. Some guys come on here posting pics ostensibly for advice when all they're looking for is a pat on the back. They then get their back up when people offer some useful advice. The OP came asking for critique, and welcomed it... which is the right attitude if you want to live a long life. There's many lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience on this forum, a lot of it specific to regions which is highly valuable information. Anyone hoping to improve themselves in the area of falling would do well to post here, people are generous of their knowledge. :clap:

Shaun

I suppose that's one way to look at what I wrote, fine. I wasn't there to see all the conditions of the cut. The OP says in subsequent posts that they pulled it over? Plenty of comments on cutting thru the hinge and holding wood.
 
It's actually a pretty amazing balancing act. Before I found out about the cable I couldn't believe that tree didn't sit back (no wedges), or go forward long before all the holding qood was cut. I assume it was backleaning gently, because if there was any big force on the low cable it woulda jumped, and probably not in a nice way. Any less cable pull it would have sat back, and maybe gone sideways. I am almost certainly the worst faller hanging out on the forum, but that may be perfect for this case.
Cables are great for a little insurance, but I bet if you had pounded a few wedges into the back cut you could have lifted this one over. That being said, I have never made a gunning cut and back cut so level and meet so perfectly. :cheers:
 
Yeah, you could do better. I'm pretty sure the higher side of the hinge wood is 1/64" smaller the low side, but I can't be completely sure. Have you got some verniers? :rock:

Shaun
 
Yeah, you could do better. I'm pretty sure the higher side of the hinge wood is 1/64" smaller the low side, but I can't be completely sure. Have you got some verniers? :rock:

Shaun

You could be right Shaun, my eye's aren't as good as they once were. :laugh:
We have absolutly no market for much of anything right now. That's just an old White Pine snag on a little 6 acre job I did. That one will be firewood...but a man should take pride in everything he does.

Andy
 
Andy, all I can say is if you had used a bird's beak face with the proper angles and a corresponding proper sloping back cut (aka a "farmer's cut") your stump would have been parrallel with the ground and could have even been flush with the ground. :msp_rolleyes:

Seriously, I like your lines. Just wish I could show some like it, but somehow on slopes my cuts almost always tend to run in the direction of the slope despite my efforts to make them level.

Ron
 
id say u need to work on ur cutting skills by the time u smash a few saws u will learn how to bore cut its fairly simple notch 1/4 of the tree pull the saw out stick it in behind ur notch and saw into it leave an inch of holdind wood no more so it dont bust the tree and saw backwards and leave urself about 4 inch of a trigger to cut then step back and cut the trigger biggerthe timber easier to cut . ive also cut trees by 4 legging them do not notch take the saw stick it in the front were u would notch bore straight into it cut back right to left leaving 4 inches on each side and repeat that on the back side take the saw cut the legs on the back and the 4 inches of wood left on each side of the front of the tree will guide it were u want it not for small trees.
 

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