Is this worth considering?

[Oldtimer]

It wants to be some majestic massive hardwood trees and easy going (no pulp in the way, no thick brush) for one man with a saw to drop and limb AND buck 20K feet of logs a day.
I just sent out a load of oak logs that scaled 3685', 62 logs on the truck.
That = 59 b/ft per log average. It wasn't small wood as NH oak goes, it was some 12" and a lot of 14", with some 20+" logs.
It averaged $540 per thousand feet, including the pallet.

 

[logging22]

8 to 10k a day here is a really good day. Some better than others. I have cut as much as 18k a day. And as little as 3k a day. Depends on the trees, layout, ground, all kinds of things. I wish i had trees that looked like the ones in the PNW. Those guys earn the money they make, no doubt. But different places means different things. 6 hours a day. That would be sweet. I just cant make enough money in 6. Gotta make it count when i can. Just my .02.

 

[056kid]

It wants to be some majestic massive hardwood trees and easy going (no pulp in the way, no thick brush) for one man with a saw to drop and limb AND buck 20K feet of logs a day.
I just sent out a load of oak logs that scaled 3685', 62 logs on the truck.
That = 59 b/ft per log average. It wasn't small wood as NH oak goes, it was some 12" and a lot of 14", with some 20+" logs.
It averaged $540 per thousand feet, including the pallet.

Thats small wood even by east coast standards.

 

[Oldtimer]

Thats small wood even by east coast standards.

Is it really? How many oak lots have you cut in NH?

Me, I've cut a few. And "Nice Oak" here is anything over 16" on the stump.
30" on the stump is considered very large. Mind you, to get more than 2 grade logs from an oak tree here is rare. It just doesn't grow super tall and straight.
There's bigger oak here, but it isn't for sale. Biggest I ever cut was big enough that I took it out in 3 pieces with the C5D: The butt, and 2 leaders. It was downright huge by any N/E standard. The log truck struggled to load it.
But, by and large, the average oak log sent to Canada from NH is 12" dia.
The pressure on our private woodland is such that most never gets to grow much beyond that size. That's why they buy 10" veneer oak here, that and the fact that young wood tends to be of a higher grade.

 

[pdqdl]

Thanks guys.

You have largely confirmed what I thought. I would be superman to pull off 20K in Missouri on a daily basis.

8-10k sounded realistic. That's what I figured would be do-able, given decent conditions.

 

[redprospector]

Come on out. We'll let you pack a 660 or a 390 with a 36" bar, wedges, gypo jugs, maybe a set of jacks, a few tools, along with your water and lunch of course up and down some of the terrain we work on. It's not really steep enough to be called vertical, not everywhere at least. Some of it isn't any steeper than a cow's face but it does tend to get brushy at times. Hell, we'll even let you commute two hours or more each way (for free), and get up early enough to be on the saw as soon as you can see the trees. As an extra added attraction we'll let you keep the same pace we do...start to finish...for that measly six hours. It's easy to stay ahead of the skidders if you just move at a good trot all day, don't get hung up, don't waste a lot of time falling down too much, eat your lunch while you're changing chains, and get your resting done while you're on your own time someplace else. All you have to worry about is keeping everything in lead and bucking stuff that wants to roll down the hill.
Look at the pictures TarzanTree posted where he's stretched out over a log bucking the far side. You'll get to do some of that. And you'll get really good at catty escape moves when everything breaks loose and gravity takes over. And after you're done...haul yourself on to the next one. And the next and the next and the next. Don't dawdle...if you're busheling you need to go hard to make any money. If you're day-waging you still have to go hard...the side rod wants wood on the ground...and lots of it. Oh, and there's springboards too. Yup we still use them. How's your knees? But hey, it's only for six hours, right?

So...come on out. Six hours a day? How hard can that be?

Well said.
6 hours isn't the law here, but that's what we worked felling.
I did a little experiment when I worked for the mill. The 7th hour my production fell by almost 50%. The 8th hour I was producing less than 50% of what I did for the first 6 hours. Anything over 8 and I was really pissing up a well rope. I also found that working over 8 would affect production the next day.
When a man is giving everything he's got it only takes about 6 hours before it's all gone.

Andy

 

[forestryworks]

the 6hrs is for good reason, your own safety. anything longer can be foolish in certain situations.

 

[madhatte]

the fact that young wood tends to be of a higher grade.

Q: is this because it has (had chance to accumulate) less defect? Does the tighter grain of older wood command a better price? I'm just asking because out here we sell the young stuff, but older definitely commands a higher price, regardless of species.

 

[treemandan]

Just how steep is a cow's face?

 

[slowp]

I have skied a run at Mt. Bachelor called Cow Face and it wasn't as steep as our Execution run, which I have not skied, or Mach, which I have skied badly.
Nor did they have rescue toboggans placed in strategic locations like some of the runs up in Beautiful British Columbia.

I believe it depends on how the cow is positioning her head. No, I have not skied on a real cow's face. That would be cruel.

Some of the clearcuts we used to have logging on were steep enough so whatever tree was cut would roll or shoot down to the bottom. High stumping would not hold the logs. There'd be the sound of the tree going over, then the sound of rolling and shifting logs.

Now we have thinnings on steep ground.

 

[Gologit]

Just how steep is a cow's face?

Plenty steep.

 

[Oldtimer]

Q: is this because it has (had chance to accumulate) less defect?
Yes, the young wood shoots for the canopy and doesn't develop limbs. Grows fast in the right conditions, so it tends to be a very high grade for that reason.
Does the tighter grain of older wood command a better price? I'm just asking because out here we sell the young stuff, but older definitely commands a higher price, regardless of species.
There's no distinction made for the age of wood here. The oldest wood the mills ever see is maybe 200 years old, and damn little of it.

We have 4th, 5th, and 6th generation forests here since the first settlers cleared the "old growth" forests 300 years ago. True "old growth" is very very scarce and protected. It's literally kept secret so the public doesn't go trample it under foot.

 

[Humptulips]

Come on out. We'll let you pack a 660 or a 390 with a 36" bar, wedges, gypo jugs, maybe a set of jacks, a few tools, along with your water and lunch of course up and down some of the terrain we work on. It's not really steep enough to be called vertical, not everywhere at least. Some of it isn't any steeper than a cow's face but it does tend to get brushy at times. Hell, we'll even let you commute two hours or more each way (for free), and get up early enough to be on the saw as soon as you can see the trees. As an extra added attraction we'll let you keep the same pace we do...start to finish...for that measly six hours. It's easy to stay ahead of the skidders if you just move at a good trot all day, don't get hung up, don't waste a lot of time falling down too much, eat your lunch while you're changing chains, and get your resting done while you're on your own time someplace else. All you have to worry about is keeping everything in lead and bucking stuff that wants to roll down the hill.
Look at the pictures TarzanTree posted where he's stretched out over a log bucking the far side. You'll get to do some of that. And you'll get really good at catty escape moves when everything breaks loose and gravity takes over. And after you're done...haul yourself on to the next one. And the next and the next and the next. Don't dawdle...if you're busheling you need to go hard to make any money. If you're day-waging you still have to go hard...the side rod wants wood on the ground...and lots of it. Oh, and there's springboards too. Yup we still use them. How's your knees? But hey, it's only for six hours, right?

So...come on out. Six hours a day? How hard can that be?

You know, I worked on the riggin' too many years to have any sympathy for cutters. Admit it you know you're all spoiled.

 

[RVALUE]

Is it really? How many oak lots have you cut in NH?

Me, I've cut a few. And "Nice Oak" here is anything over 16" on the stump.
30" on the stump is considered very large. Mind you, to get more than 2 grade logs from an oak tree here is rare. It just doesn't grow super tall and straight.
There's bigger oak here, but it isn't for sale. Biggest I ever cut was big enough that I took it out in 3 pieces with the C5D: The butt, and 2 leaders. It was downright huge by any N/E standard. The log truck struggled to load it.
But, by and large, the average oak log sent to Canada from NH is 12" dia.
The pressure on our private woodland is such that most never gets to grow much beyond that size. That's why they buy 10" veneer oak here, that and the fact that young wood tends to be of a higher grade.

The best lift of red oak I ever got was 14 foot from NH. So close to perfect it would spoil a person. Beautiful stuff. Made some nice cabinets from it. Out of 2200 BF you could carry all the knots at once.

 

[Gologit]

You know, I worked on the riggin' too many years to have any sympathy for cutters. Admit it you know you're all spoiled.

Maybe. But we don't mind. Besides, you know how important it is to keep the old-time traditions alive in this business. Six hours is fine with me.

 

[RandyMac]

I knew a riggin' guy would speak up, but hey, without choppers, riggin' guys would be on the dole or growin' pot. One nice thing about being a faller, you don't have to ride in the crummy with those sweaty chokermen.
Little hardwoods, I thought second growth Redwoods were bad. With a few exceptions, long gone are the days where a multiple truck load trees were standard.

 

[Humptulips]

Maybe. But we don't mind. Besides, you know how important it is to keep the old-time traditions alive in this business. Six hours is fine with me.

So just curious,when did the 6 hour day come in for cutters. I know the old hand bushelers worked 8 hours or even longer. My Dad mentioned he was busheling for Simpson in the early 50s and they worked 8. So when did it become an old time tradition.
I've done both and to tell you the truth I don't think you gain much by working 6 hour days. It seems like they always want you to work weekends and it just runs you down. Mostly on the riggin' it is 5 days a week and you get a chance to recharge. I needed it! I did work 6 9s and a half day sunday when I was in AK. You definetly lose high gear after a few months of that plus you get extremely grumpy.

 

[Jacob J.]

I think I remember my grandpa saying they went over to six hour days in the mid 60's. There'd been a lot of accidents and worker's comp people were arguing that 8-hour days were just too long for fallers. Plus that was about the time that all the fallers had to buck their own wood. Just prior to that there were "bucking" crews who went in behind the fallers and bucked everything. So the work of "falling and bucking" was strenuous enough to dictate the shorter days.