Its Electric!

[northmanlogging]

You didn't refute my claims about private jets and fuel usage. When discussing electric excavators, as soon as we got into the nuts and bolts calculations based on YOUR usage, you started straw manning me and calling names. I've never seen you refute a single thing in any of these discussions, only resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you.

Ain't me who has the issue here. I'll also point out that projection is a classic NPD behavior. Once again, I'm done with you.

first of all, I never provided MY usage, so how the redacted could you do the math on MY usage? YOU assumed a whole bunch of numbers, then ran a bunch of math on said assumed numbers, which since its a STRAW man argument based on falsities I IGNORED (pretty sure I covered that in an early post)

your parable about jets and mansions has redacted all to do with the thread and is basically more made up fear mongering redacted so it too, was ignored for the deflection it is


now you're calling me a narcissist, and accusing me of projecting. cool cool maybe get your "facts" straight and come back with a valid argument. Then maybe we can discuss the benefits and detriments of electric vs fossil fuels like adults rather then further Ad Hominem attacks, name calling and contradictions that seem to be all you have. (of course using the definitions YOU provided)

I may have called you a fool, among many others, I stand by that.

 

[muddstopper]

It is really amazing how someone so stupid can think they are so smart. It shows up a lot in these type of threads. Always a myway or the highway attitude and if you dont agree with them, then you are stupid or a racist, or homophobe or something else. they cant be bothered to scarifice and try to save a little bit themsels, but they can sure call out others for not not falling for the grand plan to save the world. Thats why I have so many of them on ignore.

The cheapest, cleanest, electricity we can make is not wasting what is already being produced.

 

[muddstopper]

Starting with a nasty straw man, right off the bat.

I largely agree with you, conserve all we can. A graphite/compost/chicken wire sandwich battery still isn't going to power society. How many acres of compost sandwich do you need to power a heat pump for an hour? Do you have any idea how much electricity it takes to manufacture aluminum?

I think you are missing the point of my post. or taking a very short sighted view of innovations. I am not saying everyone should run out and build a big pile of compost to try and power their house. There are already dirt batteries on the market that are being experimented with in the hopes of replacing Lithium and they are building large grids of these battery farms that will power whole towns. As for how much power it takes to manufacture aluminum, why limit your question to just aluminum, there are all kinds of manufactoring processes that use large amounts of power. Even those dirt battery farms use a lot of electricity to recharge, just like the lithium batteries. The difference is in the amount of pollution that is created mining the dirt versus, mining the lithium and colbalt, and cadium.

 

[alanbaker]

Phil Ochs, a folk singer who was a contemporary of Bob Dylan, wrote a song "I'm a Liberal". In it he decries the hypocrisy of many liberals - "A liberal is 10% left of center in good times and 10% right of center when it effects them personally ". I am familiar with many of the later, particular around solar farms. They are all for saving the planet with solar as long as they do not have see it on their drive home.
Also Phil Ochs was a dyed in wool liberal who was vehemently opposed the Vietnam War.

 

[muddstopper]

 

[Bill G]

Just remember one thing when you start calculating the efficency of a battery powered anything. That battery has to be charged at some point. When you factor in the fuel used to mine the battery equipment, the fuel used to transport it across the big pond, the cost to actually manufactor that battery and then transport it to the vehicle in question. the cost to dispose of dead batteries, and the time you spend waiting on that battery to recharge, and the cost of the recharge. Have you saved anything, have you really reduced CO2 emissions.

Nope!!

 

[OM617YOTA]

I think you are missing the point of my post. or taking a very short sighted view of innovations. I am not saying everyone should run out and build a big pile of compost to try and power their house. There are already dirt batteries on the market that are being experimented with in the hopes of replacing Lithium and they are building large grids of these battery farms that will power whole towns. As for how much power it takes to manufacture aluminum, why limit your question to just aluminum, there are all kinds of manufactoring processes that use large amounts of power. Even those dirt battery farms use a lot of electricity to recharge, just like the lithium batteries. The difference is in the amount of pollution that is created mining the dirt versus, mining the lithium and colbalt, and cadium.

You're right, I did misunderstand. My apologies for that. If this turns out to be a viable technology, then absolutely we should be pursuing it and using it wherever it makes sense. Dirt battery underneath a solar panel farm, or something like that.

I want to be clear, I'm not against any of these technologies. I'm 100% against laws forcing adoption of these technologies; let the market decide. There's not going to be a silver bullet solution that fixes all of this at once. Find cleaner battery tech. Find clean ways to mine lithium and cobalt. Reclaim base materials from batteries we have already, once they've reached the end of their service life. Use these technologies to switch to electric portable devices as they make sense, from chainsaws up to excavators - again, letting the market decide when that is.

And also drill baby drill, and build a nuke plant a month until power is too cheap to meter.

 

[dboyd351]

You didn't refute my claims about private jets and fuel usage. When discussing electric excavators, as soon as we got into the nuts and bolts calculations based on YOUR usage, you started straw manning me and calling names. I've never seen you refute a single thing in any of these discussions, only resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you.

Ain't me who has the issue here. I'll also point out that projection is a classic NPD behavior. Once again, I'm done with you.

and you think only liberals have private jets???

 

[muddstopper]

I want to be clear, I'm not against any of these technologies. I'm 100% against laws forcing adoption of these technologies; let the market decide. There's not going to be a silver bullet solution that fixes all of this at once. Find cleaner battery tech. Find clean ways to mine lithium and cobalt. Reclaim base materials from batteries we have already, once they've reached the end of their service life. Use these technologies to switch to electric portable devices as they make sense, from chainsaws up to excavators - again, letting the market decide when that is.

Now we are on the same page. It seems the greenies think the magic bullet is already here. Just shut off the oil pumps and we can power the world with solar and windmills. They dont even factor in just how much pollution is being created making and installing those solar panels and windmills. Or even how much oil is used to make these products. Reducing dependance on fossil fuels is a great long term goal, but its not something you can just force into exsistance. Sodium ion batteries are advancing and being used as a replacment of Lithium batteries. Sodium is very abundant and you can suck it out of the ocean. Spent nuclear fuel rods are being recycled to make small batteries that recharge themselfs without relying on the electric grid. Lots of technology out there, but we are not ready to shut off the oil wells just yet and we shouldnt be making people suffer just because Al Gore or John Kerry want to make money using scare tactics to mislead the population.

 

[northmanlogging]

Now we are on the same page. It seems the greenies think the magic bullet is already here. Just shut off the oil pumps and we can power the world with solar and windmills. They dont even factor in just how much pollution is being created making and installing those solar panels and windmills. Or even how much oil is used to make these products. Reducing dependance on fossil fuels is a great long term goal, but its not something you can just force into exsistance. Sodium ion batteries are advancing and being used as a replacment of Lithium batteries. Sodium is very abundant and you can suck it out of the ocean. Spent nuclear fuel rods are being recycled to make small batteries that recharge themselfs without relying on the electric grid. Lots of technology out there, but we are not ready to shut off the oil wells just yet and we shouldnt be making people suffer just because Al Gore or John Kerry want to make money using scare tactics to mislead the population.

Spent nuclear fuel rods are being recycled to make small batteries that recharge themselfs without relying on the electric grid. what the actual redacted are you smoking?
and no the "greenies" do not think the "magic bullet is here" and not the oil taps shouldn't be shut off yesterday, this is that fear mongering talking again.
However, better solutions are here, and working NOW, so why not use them, until a better solution arrives (some would call that evolution or gasp progress)

Sodium ion batteries are advancing and being used as a replacment of Lithium batteries. Sodium is very abundant and you can suck it out of the ocean cool, I have no idea if a sodium ion battery is a thing, but if you're scared of lithium... you should see what sodium can do mixed with water... and lets be clear here, sodium chloride, is not sodium ion, and yes, you can in fact get unlimited amounts of sodium chloride from the ocean, you can get lithium from the ocean too.
Sodium chloride is a great addition to many popular foods, especially popcorn, sodium ion is highly toxic, reacts with water and will explode your face... best to not confuse the two

 

[northmanlogging]

we'll I learned something, however, Sodium batterys however have lower energy density and insufficient charge-discharge cycles, which makes them less desirable over lithium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery

 

[northmanlogging]

still would rather have lithium sitting around over Sodium though...

 

[OM617YOTA]

and you think only liberals have private jets???

Certainly not, and the private jets aren't the problem. The problem is that these are the people telling and expecting others to reduce their own energy and fossil fuel usage, while simultaneously burning more in a week than most people do in a lifetime.

 

[Bill G]

Somehow I don't think the graphite compost chicken wire battery is all that practical, on a grid replacement level. I used to power a clock with a couple potatoes when I was in grade school, but you couldn't run a house off of it.

Think Big!!!!

 

[Bill G]

So how about this big ole electric boy, anyone see the irony?

 

[Franny K]

Explain the irony please. I believe hydraulic equipment replaced that or similar machines. What if the pacific fleet needs diesel and jet fuel and mining can run off something else.



These are rare earth magnets in this case for a speedometer/odometer sensor trigger. That is how far they keep apart when pushing one. Try and stick them face to face and it is impressive. There are induction motors without magnets but it seems the permanent magnet type are much more prevalent.

 

[Bill G]

Explain the irony please. I believe hydraulic equipment replaced that or similar machines. What if the pacific fleet needs diesel and jet fuel and mining can run off something else.

You might be the only one that cannot see the irony, that is so very sad.

 

[OM617YOTA]

No irony. No one doubts that big equipment can be powered by electric motors. What's at discussion is how practical batteries are to supply those electric motors.

 

[Bill G]

No irony. No one doubts that big equipment can be powered by electric motors. What's at discussion is how practical batteries are to supply those electric motors.

Sadly you missed it also.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Sadly you missed it also.

Happy to learn. Please explain.