It's not the ethenol!!

[Hermio]

Ethanol is not the enemy!
Misinformation and the lack of common sense is.

It is not the enemy. But it can be a problem in certain applications. Small engines left idle for long times may be one of them. I woud be curious if anyone has seen an independent study of Ethanol Shield.

 

[Hermio]

Only problem with 100LL is lead - it leaves buildup after a while (Looks like a light-colored carbon - that's the whitish / grayish stuff you see in the exhaust after running it), and if you've got homeowner equipment with catalytic converters it'll plug them up pretty quick. It'll eventually foul plugs, too. Usually not a big problem with air-cooled equipment run in the summer, but if you run it in winter (like a leaf blower for powdery snow) the chances of fouling go up. Not only that, but it's expensive per gallon. Cheaper than Tru-Fuel ... but not the cheapest option.

They make an aircraft additive (TCP) that fixes that, but it's PRICEY (Further proof, NOTHING in aviation is cheap!).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php?clickkey=78782

It's better to drive to a state that sells E0 at the pump, and stockpile (55 gallon drum).

You really don't want to breathe the exhaust from leaded gas! I don't use enough fuel to justify a 55 gallon drum, and I don't have material handling equipment for it. In any case, though I may prefer E0, I actually have not had any fuel-related problems in any of my vehicles or small engines from using E10.

 

[sean donato]

Only problem with 100LL is lead - it leaves buildup after a while (Looks like a light-colored carbon - that's the whitish / grayish stuff you see in the exhaust after running it), and if you've got homeowner equipment with catalytic converters it'll plug them up pretty quick. It'll eventually foul plugs, too. Usually not a big problem with air-cooled equipment run in the summer, but if you run it in winter (like a leaf blower for powdery snow) the chances of fouling go up. Not only that, but it's expensive per gallon. Cheaper than Tru-Fuel ... but not the cheapest option.

They make an aircraft additive (TCP) that fixes that, but it's PRICEY (Further proof, NOTHING in aviation is cheap!).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php?clickkey=78782

It's better to drive to a state that sells E0 at the pump, and stockpile (55 gallon drum).

The problem with 100LL is it's only "low lead: vs normal av gas. It has something like 10x the amount of lead that automotive gas used to have. Health effects alone should dictate not running it. Running e-10 regularly isn't a major issue, it's the sitting for any amount of time thats the problem. If most people would just take the time to winterize/ properly store their equipment you wouldn't see half the issues we do. It's like clock work once the weather starts to change spring and fall, I get a bunch of locals with whatever equipment that sits most the year in for no start, or pore running and they all have one thing in common, they didn't purge the e-10 out of the fuel system, or do anything for storage. Some of them eventually listen and grab a quart of premix and I usually don't see them till the actually break something.

 

[Hermio]

The problem with 100LL is it's only "low lead: vs normal av gas. It has something like 10x the amount of lead that automotive gas used to have. Health effects alone should dictate not running it. Running e-10 regularly isn't a major issue, it's the sitting for any amount of time thats the problem. If most people would just take the time to winterize/ properly store their equipment you wouldn't see half the issues we do. It's like clock work once the weather starts to change spring and fall, I get a bunch of locals with whatever equipment that sits most the year in for no start, or pore running and they all have one thing in common, they didn't purge the e-10 out of the fuel system, or do anything for storage. Some of them eventually listen and grab a quart of premix and I usually don't see them till the actually break something.

I will add that there is no additive that will actually remove the lead. At most, additives may reduce deposit build-up in the engine.

 

[bwalker]

I will add that there is no additive that will actually remove the lead. At most, additives may reduce deposit build-up in the engine.

Avgas already contains bromide based lead scavengers. The don't completely prevent lead deposits, but they keep the deposits soft and prevent them from getting real bad.

 

[bwalker]

Only problem with 100LL is lead - it leaves buildup after a while (Looks like a light-colored carbon - that's the whitish / grayish stuff you see in the exhaust after running it), and if you've got homeowner equipment with catalytic converters it'll plug them up pretty quick. It'll eventually foul plugs, too. Usually not a big problem with air-cooled equipment run in the summer, but if you run it in winter (like a leaf blower for powdery snow) the chances of fouling go up. Not only that, but it's expensive per gallon. Cheaper than Tru-Fuel ... but not the cheapest option.

They make an aircraft additive (TCP) that fixes that, but it's PRICEY (Further proof, NOTHING in aviation is cheap!).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php?clickkey=78782

It's better to drive to a state that sells E0 at the pump, and stockpile (55 gallon drum).

Ironically that additive contains up to 10% ethanol...
Like most fixes in a can I don't see it doing much.

 

[Hermio]

Avgas already contains bromide based lead scavengers. The don't completely prevent lead deposits, but they keep the deposits soft and prevent them from getting real bad.

But they will not prevent lead from being in the exhaust gas. Conservation of matter. I still would never use the stuff anywhere near where I could breathe the exhaust.

 

[bwalker]

But they will not prevent lead from being in the exhaust gas. Conservation of matter. I still would never use the stuff anywhere near where I could breathe the exhaust.

No, they wont. The bromide based scavengers work by making the lead oxides more volatile, so they would have the effect of increasing lead concentration in the exhaust and making it more absorbant in your lungs.
I will not run leaded fuel in a hand held piece of equipment and I have warned against it on this site for years. It's just stupid. And avgas isn't a great two cycle fuel to start with as the distillation curve is biased such that it the low end of the curve has low volatility.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

Steve is a nut, but he has a point.
Why is ethanol in there?
To add oxygen to the fuel. Cleaner emissions.
Gentlemen, we are running a 2 cycle engine. emissions really should be pretty low on the list of concerns.
Yeah, they put some odd stuff in the gasoline. I am pleased that some folks are having success with stabil
I run the expensive stuff from an airport, and have not had issues with carburetor diaphrams (yet).

Straight ethanol contains 35% oxygen by weight, therefore E10 pump gasoline contains 3.5% oxygen by weight. I’m not convinced ethanol blended fuel burns any cleaner than non-ethanol fuel. You have to burn more of it to achieve stoichiometric ratio (14.7:1) in ANY engine.

 

[cscltd]

I always thought e10 or whatever amount was mandated in our fuel for consumer use was because corn grows every year and dinosaurs don’t.
We now or may have to decide do we fill our gas tank or our bellies with food-lol
Not being political in this comment

 

[660catman]

I have sleds, atv’s, generators and seasonal equipment. My E10 fuel is treated with Seafoam in every tank and end of season treated with a double dose of Sta-BIL. Never had an issue at start of season startups. It is recommended in carbed sleds that you increase jet size when using ethanol fuel because of the BTU output. 10% is the limit too.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I have sleds, atv’s, generators and seasonal equipment. My E10 fuel is treated with Seafoam in every tank and end of season treated with a double dose of Sta-BIL. Never had an issue at start of season startups. It is recommended in carbed sleds that you increase jet size when using ethanol fuel because of the BTU output. 10% is the limit too.

I've cleaned out plenty of gummed up carburetors treated with everything under the sun. Seafom, Sta-Bil, etc..

Mechanic in a can products only help to a point - beyond that there is no help, which is why I push E0.


If it wasn't political, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts would have E0 and off-road #2 diesel available at every gas station. Neither is available at ANY station ... except outside of New England, or in northern NH or ME.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

And just so everyone is aware ... the brainwashing we've all received that petroleum is from "dead dinosaurs" is absolutely ludicrous.

Stop and think for a minute how many TRILLIONS of gallons have been pumped from the earth since that day the Rockerfellers struck gold in PA back in the 1800's. There is no logical way that stuff is from dinosaurs, lol. We'd have run out 95 years ago!

 

[660catman]

I've cleaned out plenty of gummed up carburetors treated with everything under the sun. Seafom, Sta-Bil, etc..

Mechanic in a can products only help to a point - beyond that there is no help, which is why I push E0.


If it wasn't political, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts would have E0 and off-road #2 diesel available at every gas station. Neither is available at ANY station ... except outside of New England, or in northern NH or ME.

Trying to treat it after the fact is useless. Only a thorough ultrasonic cleaning may work. Nothing will work when it’s too far gone. Again, I’ve ALWAYS treated my gas.

 

[bwalker]

I always thought e10 or whatever amount was mandated in our fuel for consumer use was because corn grows every year and dinosaurs don’t.
We now or may have to decide do we fill our gas tank or our bellies with food-lol
Not being political in this comment

Corn does grow every year, but it takes alot of diesel to plant/harvesting, alot of natural gas to make fertilizer, of which bit requires alot and other petro chemicals to for herbicides.

 

[bwalker]

And just so everyone is aware ... the brainwashing we've all received that petroleum is from "dead dinosaurs" is absolutely ludicrous.

Stop and think for a minute how many TRILLIONS of gallons have been pumped from the earth since that day the Rockerfellers struck gold in PA back in the 1800's. There is no logical way that stuff is from dinosaurs, lol. We'd have run out 95 years ago!

Mostly from algae, plants, etc.

 

[bwalker]

I have sleds, atv’s, generators and seasonal equipment. My E10 fuel is treated with Seafoam in every tank and end of season treated with a double dose of Sta-BIL. Never had an issue at start of season startups. It is recommended in carbed sleds that you increase jet size when using ethanol fuel because of the BTU output. 10% is the limit too.

Its because of the O2 content that it may need leaner jets.
Seafoam is lightening your wallet and not much else.

 

[bwalker]

Straight ethanol contains 35% oxygen by weight, therefore E10 pump gasoline contains 3.5% oxygen by weight. I’m not convinced ethanol blended fuel burns any cleaner than non-ethanol fuel. You have to burn more of it to achieve stoichiometric ratio (14.7:1) in ANY engine.

They don't burn any cleaner. Originally and you can look this up ethanol was a way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil prior to the shale oil boom. We now produce more petroleum than we consume, both like most big giv programs ethanol is the gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile the US consumer is footing the bill in the form of higher food and fuel prices.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Trying to treat it after the fact is useless. Only a thorough ultrasonic cleaning may work. Nothing will work when it’s too far gone. Again, I’ve ALWAYS treated my gas.

What i was trying to convey was, fuel will STILL go bad regardless of what additives are in it. Depending on what brand it is, it's just weeks, or months longer than if you did nothing at all.

I buy E10 for equipment in regular use. I fill a 55 gallon drum with it. Sometimes I'll go 16 months before needed to refill it. As long as the cap is tight and the barrel doesn't breathe, the fuel will last, no additives needed. Not possible in a carburetor - they HAVE to breathe, or they won't work.

 

[flatsfisher]

And just so everyone is aware ... the brainwashing we've all received that petroleum is from "dead dinosaurs" is absolutely ludicrous.

Stop and think for a minute how many TRILLIONS of gallons have been pumped from the earth since that day the Rockerfellers struck gold in PA back in the 1800's. There is no logical way that stuff is from dinosaurs, lol. We'd have run out 95 years ago!

well, it's from plant and animal matter (carbon-based life) compressed over millions of years, so there will be some dinosaurs in some deposits. remember Sinclair gasoline?