J?tul C450 Kennebec

[Slvrmple72]

Jøtul C450 Kennebec

Anybody use one of these? How do you like it?

 

[boostnut]

4th year heating with one, next door neighbor has one too. 8+ hour burn times, easy to operate (the wife isn't even afraid to use it), one of the best looking units on the market.

Ours heats our 1400 sq. foot ranch without any problems at all. I have but 2 complaints with this unit. First is fan control, its high, low, or off. It would be reallllly nice to have a variable speed fan, not sure if the new units are now variable like the C350 and C550. 2nd complaint is the airwash system. The glass needs cleaning on a regular basis, the drier the wood the less frequent. I'm currently burning red oak cut 4 years ago and split 2 years ago. If I cut the primary air all the way off at night I'll have black doors in the morning. Unfortunately the airwash system wont burn all of the crap off of the doors during the next hot fire although it gets about 70% of it. A quick shot of windex and a papertowel when the glass is cool usually takes care of the rest of it.

Don't mean to make this unit sound bad, I'd buy one again if I had a need for an insert.

 

[cityevader]

I've got one and I would never own another. The firebox is very small. If you have anything less than perfectly dried for two years wood, it burns quite poorly. The primary air intake holes in the firebox are positioned so that as fall right in and fully blocks it. IF you can get the screws out of the cover, it can be vacuumed out. One was seized on ine, the other came out. I mauled the thing to get cover to rotate enough to clean it out. Coals build up faster than they can burn off, choking primary intake and cutting volume for reload in half.

 

[boostnut]

Obviously City isn't a big fan of his unit and there doesn't appear to be too many other C450 owners here on AS. Head over to the hearth.com message board and do a search. Bunch of users over there.

 

[cityevader]

There are a lot of people that love this tiny little insert. Especially at hearth.com.....but there others who hate it...just like asking about a particular car.

If you get one, MAKE SURE to remove every bolt before the first fire and liberally apply anti-sieze to the threads, especially on the little "bump cover" on the primary intake, front and center with 2 screws holding it down...you'll have to remove it at least once a season to vacuum out the ashes that plug air intake.

Also get a good 2 gallon pail for ashes, you'll fill it every day if you burn for main heat.

 

[fugazi42]

I've had my Jotul 450 for three years. I've never had a problem with mine in all the time I've used it. I consistently get 6-8 hour burns out of it when I pack it tight. It's also quite useful in the early fall and late spring when I want a quick hot fire as it gets up to temperature really fast. We heat our ~2400sf home 100% with wood with the Jotul 450 heating the downstairs and a Jotul 500 heating the upper level. They are both great stoves and I would recommend either without hesitation.

Josh

 

[boostnut]

"Also get a good 2 gallon pail for ashes, you'll fill it every day if you burn for main heat"

City, I dont know what you're burning but thats just crazy. I might get half of a 2 gallon pail out of mine every 7 or 8 days. You gotta stop burnin that green wood. Something ain't right.

 

[Booshcat]

Kennebec Insert Facts Not Fiction

There are a lot of people that love this tiny little insert. Especially at hearth.com.....but there others who hate it...just like asking about a particular car.

If you get one, MAKE SURE to remove every bolt before the first fire and liberally apply anti-sieze to the threads, especially on the little "bump cover" on the primary intake, front and center with 2 screws holding it down...you'll have to remove it at least once a season to vacuum out the ashes that plug air intake.

Also get a good 2 gallon pail for ashes, you'll fill it every day if you burn for main heat.

This is not a tiny little insert...If you bought the wrong size insert for your application, please don't blame it on the stove.
I would also like to know what the heck you are burning if you are emptying two gallons of ashes everyday.
I've been heating 24X7 for two seasons with mine, and get about two gallons of ashes in about two weeks.
I burn red oak, cherry,beech and some sycamore that are seasoned properly.
I've never had to disassemble and clean my primary air intake horn, because I've never let it fill with ashes.
Sounds like you are not burning good wood, or not burning it thoroughly.
Do you know about secondary burning?
Removing every bolt on the stove and applying anti-seize is just plain ludicrous.
I don't like to see someone who obviously has issues beating on one of the best inserts out there.
Are you a dealer for the competition by any chance?

Bob

 

[Booshcat]

"Also get a good 2 gallon pail for ashes, you'll fill it every day if you burn for main heat"

City, I dont know what you're burning but thats just crazy. I might get half of a 2 gallon pail out of mine every 7 or 8 days. You gotta stop burnin that green wood. Something ain't right.

WELL THIS WILL GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT CITY HAS BEEN BURNING....
This is his post from October in the Craigslist forum.

*****************************************************

"I've been on a roll getting a solid 5 cords the last couple weeks from craigslist foe free.....then today happened.

Called this guy up, he said he had cords and cords of Oak and Acacia he just had cut down. And it couldn't be easier, he says, I could just back the truck up and load it right in....SWEET I'm thinking!!!

I end up with 1/3 cord of 3 to 5 inch branches and some 12 inch trunk with 6 inches of rot in the center. All for two hours of work...but darn it, I wasn't going to spend all that gas to get there and back without something to show for it!!


******************************************************

Nuff said says me

 

[cityevader]

Actually, I currently have Oak and Madrone, cut, split and stacked 2 years ago. This is actually the lightest and hardest wood I've ever had so far. There is no punky stuff, there is no sizzle of dampness whatsoever. Pieces light up in about 30 seconds after laying onto the coals. There is never even a spec of black on the glass. I cleaned my chimney for the first time after 3 years with this new insert and stovepipe, got a coffe can's worth of creosote. I have secondary flames with 1/4 open primary. It just doesn't like to finish burning the coals. It is vastly better now that I vacummed out the plugged with ash primary after mangling off the siezed-bolt cover a couple weeks ago...it's probably plugged with ash again.

You're probably the type that rips on a Ford owner who doesn't like his truck.

 

[cityevader]

Mr Booshcat, If you can give me pointers how to properly burn/adjust air controls to completely burn everything to a fine ash (without putting me down) I'd truly appreciate it. BTW, I do have outside air kit.

As for anti-siezing "every" bolt...perhaps overkill. I tried to remove the door frame before it was first fired up (forget why) and it snapped. Tried to get screws out for intake cover...one of two siezed. Since cover needs to be removed frequently to vacuum out, it should be anti-siezed. Flaw in design to have holes right where ash falls in. If I were to load it so that there was no wood above those holes, I could only put about 3 four inch splits, which makes for one tiny firebox.

 

[Booshcat]

Cityevader said>>>>"You're probably the type that rips on a Ford owner who doesn't like his truck."

Mr Booshcat, If you can give me pointers how to properly burn/adjust air controls to completely burn everything to a fine ash (without putting me down) I'd truly appreciate it. BTW, I do have outside air kit.

As for anti-siezing "every" bolt...perhaps overkill. I tried to remove the door frame before it was first fired up (forget why) and it snapped. Tried to get screws out for intake cover...one of two siezed. Since cover needs to be removed frequently to vacuum out, it should be anti-siezed. Flaw in design to have holes right where ash falls in. If I were to load it so that there was no wood above those holes, I could only put about 3 four inch splits, which makes for one tiny firebox.

Quite the opposite, I own a Ford and I love it.
I do have a problem with someone maligning a product unnecessarily.

When you are the only person who can't seem to make the unit operate properly there may be something wrong with your methods.

I am not here to teach you how to operate your stove, I'm quite busy earning taxes to pay for quite a different class of "victim" at the moment.

I will say however that I do not have an outside air kit. Maybe that's why your input air is not strong enough to clean out the ashes in your air horn. Is your outside air input set up properly?

Again, I think you misjudged your needs and made a bad sizing decision.
The firebox does just fine heating my 1400 sq ft ranch.

There are videos on hearth.com that should point you in the right direction to properly start and maintain a fire. Build your wood from back to front tapering from top down.

Good Luck

 

[cityevader]

Wow, if never seen someone try so hard to discredit me. It's an honor. Sounds like someone here is a dealer for Jotul.
I like the snippet of my anecdote of disappointment at answering a particular craigslist ad for free wood being made to sound like my entire supply is rotten sticks.

The original post asked for comments of experience, and I have a few facts and a couple of opinions. Fact: out of 8 bolts, 3 were attempted to be removed. One hex seized/broke, one phillips came out, and one phillips head stripped. Fact: if the stove is new, 2 minutes of removing fasteners one by one and anti-siezing is vastly easier than removing after several seasons of fires on those dry bolt threads if you want to replace the door frame gasket or paint it or something. Why is it "ludicrous" to spend 2 minutes of prevention before it's fired up, and how is that beating up the insert?

Fact: ash falls into the holes on the primary "bump cover", eventually plugging primary and airwash intake (secondary air is unaffected). Opinion: that's a poor design. Fact: two phillips screws need to be removed to clean it out, and if they can't be removed, it can't be cleaned. Fact: if wood is stacked about 4 inches back from the glass to keep the ash generated from falling vertically into those holes, the firebox becomes 10" deep, height tapering front to back from approx. 11" to 6" without a layer of coals/ash present. Opinion: that is a tiny firebox.

Fact: outside air kit consisting of a simple 3" tube going from stove inlet through hole in masonry to fresh outside air preventing warm house air being sucked right out the chimney.

Fact: many many people thoroughly enjoy this insert.
Fact: many people prefer Ford vs Chevy vs Toyota.

Observation: fuel in the bottom at the rear burns poorly. The first full load burns down to about 3 inches and covers the primary air, which can no longer go through those coals, only over the top of it. Add the ashes that accumulate/smother over the coals with no airflow from underneath, and they just keep piling up without burning. Filling at 6am and returning at 6pm with air open about 1/3 with low blower will leave about 4 inches of ash/charcoal. I've had barely charred newspapers in that lower rear corner 24 hours after fire started.

Opinion: intake air coming up through the bottom of everything would allow full burning/heat output...like a grate/ash drawer setup. Fact: I have no experience of other inserts, only stoves. Opinion: heating half of my 1500 sq ft home is inadequate.

It's an exaggeration to think I am a "victim" of this insert.
Do you mean I have a "victim mentality" simply because I'm stating some facts and opinions about my insert? ....nevermind...

To the original poster.....visit hearth.com and you will definitely get many many positive things if that's what you want to hear. I apologize for saying my Ford..ahem..Jotul leaves much to be desired.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Cityevader, thanks for all the helpful input. I repped ya for it! Anyhow the wife and I started poking around the back of the fireplace and see how loose the firebrick is and that a complete overhaul is in order. Started looking online and discussing our options. The fireplace down in the basement is home to our Treemont insert and we both like it that way. As for the fireplace in the living room the wife really likes an open hearth and she started looking online and found the Rumford style. You can already see which way this is going... I thought I was going to have a summer off from any home remodeling projects but I guess not!:greenchainsaw:

 

[cityevader]

I did stuff a good deal of insulation between the pipe and masonry since those posts from a few weeks ago. Still no metal block off plate. Didn't change anything in terms of heat or burning... Just a guess, but I imagine a couple feet on insulation has to be fairly close to sealed.

Previously I had a stove half in the fireplace, half out, with no liner whatsoever, venting directly up masonry (as it was when house purchased). Only a far-from-sealed surround against the fireplace. Easily twice the heat, half the ash (although the far bedrooms were really really cold due to outside air sucked in there and then out the chimney).

That is the only clue I have.
That is the only other experience I have.
The things I have stated are truth as I have experienced.
And I'm not slamming Jotul, I'm saying the C450 model I own has a few flaws.

 

[cityevader]

Possibly/probably not up to code, but I don't see how high-temp Rockwool between double wall insulated stainless steel pipe and masonry can be any less safe somehow. It's a lot better than the old "free-vent" stove with no pipe whatsoever...and certainly better than the installer of the Jotul who basically did the same thing, but with 4 ft of flex pipe with the remainder of the 18ft chimney unlined.

Previous to discovering that the intake bump cover needed to be removed for cleaning, while dissecting what was going on with the stove as to intake vs. exhaust restriction, yes indeed, it would burn fierce with the door open but not closed, leading me to believe intake issue. After getting cover aside enough to vacuum out, burned much better, but now a couple weeks later, seems like it's partly filled with ash again, as the "jet blast" right out from the two intake holes has declined since then.

Another gripe that I forgot is that with the blower on, firebox temp keeps dropping effective heat output... so I need to "duty cycle" the blower on/off maybe on half hour, off hour and a half...and I'm home/awake to do that, heat output is much higher. Lots of fiddling I can't do when asleep.

 

[myzamboni]

City,

What size splits are you burning? I think smaller splits might alleviate the massive coal bet you are getting.

I've been following your trials and tribulations and you are slowly heading in the right direction with this unit. The screw issues are unfortunate.

 

[cityevader]

For "at home" burning while there to tend it, the typical pieces I throw in are about an 8" round that has been quartered. A triangle of approx 4" give or take. No hissing or sizzling of dampness. Overnight/at work size may get three 6" rounds at the most.

 

[boostnut]

"Another gripe that I forgot is that with the blower on, firebox temp keeps dropping effective heat output... so I need to "duty cycle" the blower on/off maybe on half hour, off hour and a half"

Once again, something isn't right. Never have I read about another 450 owner mentioning anything like this.

For the life of me I dont understand how is it possible for you to have a blocked intake. The intake holes you refer to are not oriented so that ash can fall into them (although you could rake ash into them). Furthermore, the 2 holes are small, lets say 3/8" for the sake of conversation. Take this cover off and under it is the slide control for the primary intake. Open the slide completly and the uncovered hole is much larger, lets say 1" square for the sake of conversation. I sure wish I woulda measured these last weekend as I disassembled mine for no reason what-so-ever aside from my curiosity which stemmed from your constant bad mouthing. Now, you've got a coal that is a max of 3/8" falling into an area with a 1" opening. How the he!! does this get plugged?

Sorry man, you musta got a p.o.s. straight from the factory. Tell ya what, pull it out, fasten it to a pallet and box up the surround. I'll send you a check for a few hundred bucks, arrange shipping, and save you the trouble of going thru a learning curve with this stove.

 

[Booshcat]

The way the air blasts through my primary air inlet, I just can't see it clogging with ashes. I think you need to block the outside air and check your draft, or look to draft issues in general. My air inlet literally cuts a channel through the ash bed where the feed port is.