J?tul C450 Kennebec

[BearKnot]

Hi CE,

I offer the following for your consideration.

Go to

http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-inserts/Jotul-C-450-Kennebec/

& scroll down to >Manual (PDF - 935 kB)< & click on "manual"

Note the illustration on page # 10 on how the flue is to be routed & secured.

Next see page # 16 for the air inlet / exhaust operation of your stove.

From the exploded drawing on page 20 please identify the screws / bolts, which are found on page #21, that you removed in order to get your stove to draw better.

Now, fwiw, this suggestion.

Please check with Jotul immediately about your solution to your stove's draft problem as there may be unknown repercussions due to your modifications. Yours & others safety is definitely at stake.

And please keep us informed about your results for we might come across others in need of what Jotul tells you.

Good luck with it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Pick up a starving dog, feed & care for it & the dog will not bite you;
that is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

 

[BearKnot]

Installation stuffed into chimney & Jotul C450 installation

Ok CE,

As you're familiar with hearth.com website, have you seen this tread?

Can I use Koawool?

http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31928/

Note oconner, Rudyjr, BrotherBart comments, & especially potter's at the end regarding installing Kaowool.

What type insulation did you pack into your chimney?

Did you read & see Rudyjr's pictures of his Jotul C450 installation?

http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30941/

If you're a member there you could pm him, seems very knowledgeable to me.

 

[cityevader]

I'm not sure how you think that I've modified anything...other than not having a "sealed block off plate at damper area", but rather using Rockwool between pipe and masonry. Same pipe and install otherwise the same.

The doorframe #33 upper left bolt is the one that broke.
What I've been calling the "bump cover" is #35 with two screws, one of which stripped. It's labeled an "inspection cover" which leads me to believe it is meant to be removed for inspecting/cleaning....which is indeed why it's there....to vacuum out the ashes plugging up intake....and of course I re-installed it...perhaps youthink I left it off?!? Nope.

I indeed use wide open during start/reload, and after full temp of 700* I drop it down to roughly 25% for the smaller splits, maybe 40% for larger ones. Open any more causing more fuel consumption and really doesn't add heat. The heat flows faster up and out that there is less time for it to be transferred to the airflow from the blower, hence the moderately reduced intake. With the high blower on, temp drops to 350* in about a half hour. Low blower takes about an hour. No blower gives higher temp, but less air heating.

Mine will "cut a channel" through the coals until the ashes build up and cover them, airflow over the top doesn't do much. I've got coals covered in ash in the can outside that don't burn out for two days....without airflow going "through" it, it just smolders without burning...same as inside the 450.

 

[cityevader]

http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31186/

The thread in question.

 

[Booshcat]

Even when presented with the facts, you continue to insist that stuffing some rockwool up around your pipe is the same as a block off PLATE.
Did you see the part about the smaller finer ashes, those are the kind that wont plug your air intake.
You have been presented with all of the knowledge you need to make your stove operate properly. End Of Story

 

[cityevader]

I haven't insisted rockwool is the same as a plate.
I said I tried it, that's all.
In my hearth.com thread, at the very end one person was amazed at the difference in house heat after the block off put in...and that they insert didn't burn any better, just a reduction in convective heat loss out the gap between chimney and pipe. I regret the fact I won't remove my insert so do it "right" with a plate, but I tried the insulation to help reduce warm air flowing up and out. That plate is the only advice I haven't done.

I did not see a part about small fine ash not plugging up the intake...mine was filled the entire 3 or so inch depth with small fine ash. (This is underneath the inspection cover, inside, not on top). There was about a cup and a half worth in there. I don't understand your idea about that.

To the OP, there is a high probability you will enjoy this insert, look at as many as you can in person, ask as many specific questions as you can without asking "which is better" type questions, as that leads to people like me giving opinions based on experience.

With a graceful bow while backing away, I apologize for exasperating all of you. Clearly I'm the only one who can't slide an air lever or leave wood out to dry. I should be amazed I've made it this far in life at all.

 

[myzamboni]

Hey City,

Just for grins and giggles, is it possible to try running the insert without your Outside Air Kit? I'm curious to see if it makes any difference.

 

[BearKnot]

Ok, CE, your points taken.

But do not stuff insulation at the top of your chimney, it wastes heat & causes the pipe to sweat. You don’t want condensation as it will smell up the chimney area. Best that you install the rockwool on top of the plate damper & let the top of the chimney open to breath.

Have you pm pmilam & Rudyjr lately to see how they are doing? Since their stove is like yours you all will do well to keep in touch. And Oconner & others are trying to help as well, so don’t give up on them either.

Ya, it is frustrating, but such is life, right (Rom 5:3-4)?

Print out the 450 from the Jotul website previously given but increase the view size so that you can clearly see the pertinent areas of the ash collection. Now look closely, does the pdf drawing agree with your stove design, bolt placement, air vent, etc.?

If not get a good digital camera & call the owner of the store that your 450 Jotul is from. Arrange a time to examine his 450. Is it made like yours? If yes, have him explain the accumulation of ashes in the air intake area. If not, or he can’t, then take some good pictures & enlarge them like you did the pdf file. Give the owner a set & ask that he take ownership of your problem & contact Jotul on your behalf, he should get a faster response.

If he doesn’t have a 450 or won’t help, contact Jotul direct & explain the reason why. Get serial #, date of purchase, how long you have had your problem, etc down on paper in order to keep your thoughts on track. Do not get into details unless asked. Most companies have a trouble list that their info gathers must ask first. Those folks are usually not technicians. More than likely you will be passed up the line several times before getting a knowledgeable technician for, as you have learned, your trouble is unique.

Keep your cool & us informed. Good luck with it.

 

[BearKnot]

Did you all read CE’s posted hearth.com thread.

Did you read pmilam’s post there?

fwiw I’ve had like experiences in telecom. Was repeatedly told, sometimes with a sneer, that manufacture’s equipment is “computer tested at the factory before shipment”. Sounds good until you discover the hard way that such is not always done. Yes, all the Q.C. stamps of approval / testing were on the equipment. But as company’s engineers later reluctantly admitted, there was no way the equipment was ever tested / inspected.

Had a cop tell me about the best mechanic their division ever had. Seems the guy rebuilt a motor for a squad car. But in the process when he installed the heads such were only torqued to half of what the spec called for. Seems he forgot as something came up.

I know a good diesel mechanic who did the same thing to our lineman‘s bucket truck. Came up behind the truck just after he got it out of the shop, antifreeze was steaming out the exhaust.

Stuff like that happens to the best of people & companies.

 

[cityevader]

I profusely apologize to those who can't stand me.

Last night I was certain the primary air intake within the bowels of this insert, beneath the "inspection cover", were once again restricted after about 3 weeks since the last removal/vacuuming. I didn't want to deal with the one siezed screw to again vacuum it out from the inside, so instead, I went outside to where the outside 3" air tube penetrates the masonry. With a full fire going to help draft, I stuck my full-throttle leafblower right up to the inlet for about 30 seconds.

Viola! It is now cleared again with a bunch of very fine ash now outside the insert on the ashlip and hearth where it got pushed out the gap through the intake adjusting rod area, and now has a much better primary burn with greatly reduced unburnt coals and better heat output. I wonder how much ash went up the much, much less restrictive airwash passages or primary holes.

I fail to see how this can be blamed on the lack of a block-off plate to keep house heat in the house (the one piece of advice I didn't follow through on). Clearly a poor design of the intake holes being right where ash falls.

Again I recede away from those denying this is possible.

 

[Booshcat]

No Apology Necessary

Glad that helped, see we all told you you had a draft problem!
I bet you had blockage in your OAK piping.
Still that block off plate will help a great deal...nobody is giving up on that line

Hope you will have better luck now with your stove.

Bob

 

[cityevader]

Glad that helped, see we all told you you had a draft problem!
I bet you had blockage in your OAK piping.
Still that block off plate will help a great deal...nobody is giving up on that line

Hope you will have better luck now with your stove.

Bob

Ahem, the "draft" was fine (my definition of draft is the chimneys ability to suck gases up). The problem was/is primary inlet within the insert at the front plugging with ash, and not the outside air tube attaching to the back of the stove which also feeds constant air to the secondaries. Funny how so many are arguing it's not possible to have ash fall into there, but a little bit each day adds up.

"Another gripe that I forgot is that with the blower on, firebox temp keeps dropping effective heat output... so I need to "duty cycle" the blower on/off maybe on half hour, off hour and a half"

Once again, something isn't right. Never have I read about another 450 owner mentioning anything like this.

For the life of me I dont understand how is it possible for you to have a blocked intake. The intake holes you refer to are not oriented so that ash can fall into them (although you could rake ash into them). Furthermore, the 2 holes are small, lets say 3/8" for the sake of conversation. Take this cover off and under it is the slide control for the primary intake. Open the slide completly and the uncovered hole is much larger, lets say 1" square for the sake of conversation. I sure wish I woulda measured these last weekend as I disassembled mine for no reason what-so-ever aside from my curiosity which stemmed from your constant bad mouthing. Now, you've got a coal that is a max of 3/8" falling into an area with a 1" opening. How the he!! does this get plugged?

Sorry man, you musta got a p.o.s. straight from the factory. Tell ya what, pull it out, fasten it to a pallet and box up the surround. I'll send you a check for a few hundred bucks, arrange shipping, and save you the trouble of going thru a learning curve with this stove.

If you are genuinely serious about this offer, I may take you up on it. I'm currenty installing Duraliner (with block off plate!) into adjacent room's chimney, and have a cheap craigslist insert with grate/ash drawer to go there. I'm fairly certain this will heat the whole house as it is a few vertical feet lower than the Jotul. Of course, the wife won't like the pretty Jotul gone with gaping ugly hole left behind. If she OKs it, I'll definitely send it to you. If you have paypal, will make it easier...will keep you posted.

 

[cityevader]

Slvrmple72,

Sorry if it seems I hijacked your thread, not my intent.

What is your list of inserts/manufacturers you're thinking of. Have you done much in-store shopping to get a feel for individual layout/features etc? Keep us posted on how it's going.