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confused

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Went to local Deere dealer picking up some pallets to stack the split firewood on and they asked what kind of saw i ran. Then the guy did the whole sales pitch about the JD saws and how they are compareable to any Stihl or Husky. So during spring break i have a JD81 demo saw to use. The sales man said he would except my 046 on trade no problem. I never laughed so hard. But i will be using that JD and see what it can do. But boy is it heavy.

What do you guys think about the JD saws?
 
John Deere saws

I sell the same saws as EFCO (Olympycs).

They are made by an Electrolux owned company in Italy.The CS81 should compare favorably power wise with your 046.

I think as time goes on and some of these saws get out, they will develop a very good reputation.

I have the 81cc saw priced at $579.I am not soliciting sales over the internet. This is just for your use as a value comparison.
 
Thank you Syndert,

The salesman said JD built a new factory for building their own saws and turns out he didnt have the foggiest ideal that JD doesnt even make them. O well i might mention that when i go pick the thing up. I dont think it compares to my 046 one bit. It looks cheaper, has more motor and less HP, outboard clutch, chainbreak has just one pivot point, two screws to take the air box apart, no side tensioner, etc... I love JD tractors best in the world. But if i want a chainsaw ill buy a stihl or husky. Thanks for your input i appreciate your response.
 
Now I'm confused.
I thought JD saws used to be made by the Italian manufacturer Emax. Now the JD saws are made by Olympic. Is this correct?
 
Echo also made saws for Deere.

Originally posted by seesaw
Now I'm confused.
I thought JD saws used to be made by the Italian manufacturer Emax. Now the JD saws are made by Olympic. Is this correct?
 
I believe that Emac, Efco, Oleo-Mac, and Olympik are all related. Nice saws for less than brand S or H.

JD's older saws were first Echos and then junk Homelites.
 
Clarification

EFCO is the new name for Olympyc which was new name for Oleo-Mac.

All I was trying to say is that the new John Deere Pro Series saws are not junk saws, they are good quality saws.. Time will show that.

I didn't intend to offend Stihl fans.

Gosh, can't we give a brand name that is not a well known name a chance.

I handled Husky in 1979 when nearly no one had heard of them. They have heard of them now.

I am not knocking S or H, just try to be open minded and give things a chance.
 
I wasn't knocking these saws. I'm a big fan of smaller companies like Solo, Efco, and Partner (or are they just another vacuum company now?). Any way I can spend less and still get high quality is fine by me.
 
syndert,

Please do not interpret my comments on the JD saws as negative. I was just pointing out the differences between my saw and the JD. I wanted the Cadillac of saws and that is what I paid for too. I hope more players Jons, Dolmar, JD, etc... get into it and start competing. Because competition in business brings innovations and new designs so, bring on a healthy market place.
 
oleo-mac..etc

Jeez where do I start..there once was a chainsaw plant in Italy, it was called EFCO, and in the same area there was another chainsaw plant, it was owned by Mcculloch, and it was right across from a plant that makes cylinders for the chainsaw industry, Guillardoni, you wrenchs have seen this mark on many jugs,,Stihl, Husky, OLY, and the european Mcculloch's included...now..due to some strange marketings ideas, the Mcculloch plant made saws for the European market..and they were of course yellow,but not seen in the USA, and not at all resembling the saws manufactered in Mac's Arizona and Mexico plants, these saws represented typical European designs seen in this country under other Italian and German and swedish labels, and very similiar to the EFCO's as , like spanish shotguns, their views on what is "right" and what is not was very similiar.
now a couple a years ago..when Mcculloch went broke..(read this close Husqvarna) after their US based product line evolved into what their biggest customers (mass merchants) were asking for, (cheaper saws) and they for some reason did not import the "better" saws from their plant in Italy. the worlds largest chainsaw manufacturer went bust..and their Italian plant , as well as the rest of the company..was sold. this plant was bought by Electrolux.(Husqvarna parent). A very short time later BIG E bought the other plant in Italy, where we in the US have known the old OLYMPIC brand to come from. At this time these 2 plants now share very similiar designs and it can be reasoned that in the near future, due to the ecomonics of production, and The Swedish\Socialist track record.(read that Poulan/Husky/Pioneer saws ) of manufactering one modular engine for many different makes and applying different outside adornment, that they will also converge. As far as the John Deere relationship goes, They dumped their Homelite aquisition just a few months ago , and any as saw wrench knows, JD DONT make saws..and the manufacture of their saws has changed many times over the years, and at some times in recent history, had more than one company branding saws for them at the same time!
Now, with the chainsaw world rapidly changing as far as who owns who is concerned, lets take a look at the past history jus a moment. Mcculloch, who once dominated the world market, but when the emergence of the MASS merchant in the large US market happened, they of course went there for Biz..and they too said " only our Homeowner saws for these stores, and the Pro saws for the independant dealer", and for all the same reasons that Dave Zerfoss(Husky pres) tells us now..open better hours ..etc. Trouble was, the "homeowner market" was, and is, 75 percent of the market and the independant cant survive on 25 percent of the saw market..so when he went out, you had no place to get service from a high maintainence peice of equipment. and BINGO..the equipment elvoved into "disposable" tools
Husqvarna is telling all its dealers that it will be better for them in the future with this new relationship, jus like Mcculloch told their dealers...right up till the end!

now those are the facts...heres some opinion!

So far, only the GERMAN makes have vowed to stay away from this type of marketing, and as the owner of a whole shed full of saws,(Husky, Stihl, Mac and SOLO) many i cant get parts for anymore, (Macs) i wouldnt even consider anything but a SOLO or a STIHL for long term solidarity in service and parts and performance. Any line that goes mass merchant has in the past evolved into a throwaway tool for price advantages, for they have no other selling advantage in those stores, and the BUYERS always control the evolution of ANY product.

Kinda wordy i know fellas...but Ive BEEN to many of these plants, and a member summoned me to this forum for my take..and now you have it!
 
Italian McCulloch's

Funny you should mention those, Most folks have never heard of them.We here in the states only got to see the cheap crap from Tiawan. This saw (ProMac 72) is still in production
 
Dagger you old hound dog! It's about time you showed up to share your stuff with these nice folks. I don't have a thumbnail's worth of experience compared to you but, I would have to agree on the German (Stihl and Solo) for long term. Thanks for the history lesson, thanks to you, now I don't have to learn anything else new today!
Good to hear from you.
 
I checked out the Oleo Mac/Mculloch European website a little while ago. The lineup didnt look bad but every model made less power than the comparable Husky/Stihl.
 
Howdy Dagger,

Nice to hear from you. Most people around these parts have never heard of McCulloch in Europe, which evolved into a whole different world, for a while. Much like Ford in Germany. At Windsor we had the excellent good fortune of inheriting a fine salesman from this McCulloch Europe group, Wilfried Blech of Belgium/Germany.

I note that you did not mention the product liability thing in the USA which is the big club in the fray. When you go mass merchant, you maximize esposure to law suites, both liablitly and marketing disputes. These are what really killed McCulloch.

What is your opinion about where Stihl is going with their distribution? Now that they are factory owned distribution, this changes their options considerably, and in the face of "numbers" from Electrolux, what happens next, especially as they begin to manufacture the plastic saws in the USA? Remember, if you are #1 you have to run faster than fast, just to stay in the same place!

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
howdt to you to walt..hmmmm... ok here is my cyrstal ball prediction, and its probably worth just what ya paid for it!...lol

As far as Stihl and there factory owned distribution...its not complete, by a long way. I might suspect that Stihl could be finding out that maintaining stocking distribution costs a plenty, and does not necessarily end up in a lower retail price. If they are able to take over a territory and maintain quick service, for less than the independants, ...well only the bookkeeper knows for sure. I believe their crazy rule about distributors being exclusivly stihl, keeps their distributors from being as profitable as they might be. So who knows. at any case they are proceeding fairly slow in that respect, much slower than Huqvarna did.
As far as getting faced with the "Numbers" as you put it from big E, well, I am not sure that ANYONE will approach them, for their consumer "numbers " oriented products have such depth in that market that they would be way ahead of the nearest producer.
And that will drive their ownership to even greater desire AND dependance for that market. The evolution of the product will be driven, as I said before, by the customers, that is a rule as good as gravity! Husqvaqrna will I predict continue to head further down the path they are going and then either drop out of the promarket as a contender, by managements choice, or lag in R&D as more demand for a "cheaper" product to satisfy their biggest accounts demands engineering resources. Either way - no future there for better and faster stuff!
When ya get right down to it, their are not that many factories in this world where their are chainsaws being put together, and big E owns most of em..their ability to consolidate costs by labeling so many different marks can be approached by no one, they wont be outpriced on "Numbers" oriented products!



I dont think......Maybe.........

Dag
 
European McCullochs

Being that you all are on the subject, I would like to understand a few things a little better.

* Are the small McCullochs that are currently appearing on the shelves at farmstores connected in any way with those who build the European McCullochs?

* Then; Did The McCulloch tradename get sold off to two different parent companies?

* Was there ever any design commonality between Oleo-Mac and Olympyc?

* Do the current EFCO's have any platform commonality with any brands other than John Deere?

I may have to adopt the handle Confused II (also)
 
Howdy, Snydert,

I can't answer all your questions, yet; but here's openners:

McCulloch's appearing in N.A. appear to be from the outfit in Arizona that bought the McCulloch name. Jeng Feng is the name of the fellow, I believe. The saws I have seen are made in Taiwan.
They look good on the outside, but seem to be a real pain when you take one apart, even just to take off the sawchain!

I have no current knowledge of the European McCulloch personally, but have a good couple inside contacts in Europe, So I assume I will be hearing something.

Oleo-mac/Olympic/Blitz (Spain) were all the same.
Efco is now IMAC, and they appear to be buying large distributorships in Europe. (A rumored possible Electrolux tie-in, but no offical word yet. Could be some real intrique going to happen here. You heard it first on this forum!)

No need to be confused. It is getting real simple. Everything in saws is going to be either Stihl, or Electrolux. In sawchain either Oregon or Stihl. Carlton, Dolmar, Solo, Shindiawa are appearently going to continue to be "in the wings" but are going to have to put on a real spirt at the expense of the majors to get any growth in chainsaws. I have no idea what is going to come down from Homelite and McCulloch under their new owners! (Could very well go "poof").

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
well put

Well put Walt.
The Jeng Feng group bought tool and die assets at the Mac auction, but only for the small consumer saws. they just outbid the scrap iron man, who bought the rest.
They held this tooling in storage until they could find a "manufacturing partner" that could utilize it, as they had not the facilities, being primarily a electric tool manufacturer themselves. Their accomplished goal was to aquire the MCculloch name to aid them in entering the US mass market with their electric power tools, and of course, the retailer relationships. This accomplished, their new to the USA line of electric corded and cordless tools were displayed at the national shows and concurrently accepted in the in that market.
it took them some time, but they did find someone to utilize the tooling and hence offered their version of the Mac saws to their distribution partners. However they sent out a letter to ALL MCculloch parts distributors explaining that they did not need any parts distribution, so dont bother asking! That was interesting, but not the 1st company to produce gasoline powered equipment with no intention of suppling repair parts.
Big E bought the Italian plant and I believe Ford bought the plant in mexico..also interesting is that prior to the auction..big E bought the tooling for trimmers and shipped it to Italy.

Dont have a clue about the commonality of the JD's ..but that will change I predict to a modular electrolux design if that relationship continues. for pricing and support reasons, it would make sense.

And, I am not sure about before long EVERYthing being either Stihl of Electrolux..but there is no doubt about the dominating numbers there, and it will certainly take a well managed outfit to ever put any dents in there marketshare.
Where it will come from if possible is in the independant sector, and that is a smaller share everyday, no doubt, and i would bet a buck it will be a german saw for the independant before very long...Stihl or Solo..as the japanese have NEVER put any development money in a declining market in any product as far as I know, and all their current designs reflect the obvoius stagnation or development.
 
Howdy Dagger,

Don't write the Japanese off yet. Shindaiwa has the only unit I have seen actually running that meets the 2005 EPA standards. (Trimmer engine, mixed gas, 4-cycle engine, with two reed valves). As far as putting investment in chainsaws is concerned, they sunk a heck of a lot of capitol and effort into the Shindaiwa 757 and this after the failure of the 680, 695 thing gettting in that direction!
(Personally, I really liked that 680, but it could not stand up to the heavy pro due to overheat, etc.). If there ever was a loosing program, putting money into a pro chainsaw these days sure has to be it! The market appears to be down about 80% with giants fighting for the scraps.

I understand that Stihl has an engine on the boards that is supposed to be near identical to the Shindaiwa that is currently under field test. I understand that Stihl is beginning the field test in California of theirs now. Does anyone know anything about this new Stihl unit? Did they actually make it, or is it from Japan also? If so whom?

Regards,
Walt
 

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