Just My Observation

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

While heading in today ,saw a local competitor and his crew at their rounds doing a large removal. They were taking down 12 60ft pin oaks in front of a shopping center to clear the view so the shops could be seen from the road. Really it would have been best to do crown reduction on the trees and kept them, for they provided ample shade to the employees of the stores. But anyway, no worker had a helmet on his/her head and to top it off there was a guy in a bucket about 40 ft off the ground setting lines, and guess what? He didn't have a helmet on either, maybe he was just hard headed? Obviously? Good for them i wasn't the local OSHA guy from Knox county, that would've been an instant shut-down. Just goes to say, Wear all your PPE at all times because you never know who's watchin your daily activities!!!! Safe workin to all who read,goodnite:monkey:

 

[hornett224]

i rarely ever wear it.

i never had a problem in east Tennessee or here in CT with OSHA.i believe it should be a choice.the Govt should learn to regulate themselves before they bother me.i'm just fine on my own.when i need their input,i'll ask for it.

every tree service i have seen around the Knoxville and surrounding areas worked without them.same here in CT and even when i go back to Michigan.leave them alone i say.if you like it,wear it.if it's someone else,mind your own business.you don't need down there getting like up here.it's what i miss about down south.everyone minded their own business. guess it's changing for the worst there too.God help us all.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

OSHA is there to protect the worker from the unscrupulous employer.

If people would protect their workers in the first place, there would have been no need.

Employers who do not make employees were head protection are idiots who deserve to be shut down and fined out of business.

JMO

 

[hornett224]

i don't wear head protection...........

so i can't really make anyone else do something i won't do.believe it or not,they usually do on their own.

if an employer isn't doing something right,the employees should confront him/her,go on strike,supply their own gear or quit.

running off to big government is not the answer.never has been and never will. depending on government is what got us where we are today.

this is America.land of freedom and choices.it also used to be the land of people with some back bone and balls.

 

[jomoco]

Ideally the definitive factor in law should be whether the infraction occured on residential property or commercial/state/fed property.

But that's just my opinion of course.

jomoco

 

[hornett224]

if the property owner requests it.................

i can see it out of respect for them and to get the job.otherwise the govt should not be involved.

i know a guy here that is scared $hitless of the OSHA.alway harping on me about this little thing and that.problem is he's never seen them,nor has anyone else i have talked to.you see them after an accident but not before.kinda like the police.a waste of tax dollars.

people should take care of themselves.the government has never actually fixed anything.they just appear to make it look like they are doing something.what makes you think they are gonna start with this.wanna buy some mountain property in Florida? ROFLMAO

 

[moss]

Guys who don't like to wear helmets hate to mess up their hair. I know, it stinks having helmet hair at the end of the day. Suck it up!
-moss

 

[yooper]

Guys who don't like to wear helmets hate to mess up their hair. I know, it stinks having helmet hair at the end of the day. Suck it up!
-moss

Ya its the wrong business for a pretty boy to be in.
Here in Michigan the law states that employer has to bye all PPE and cant make employee bye it.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Am I the only one who just thinks it's idiotic to work in a high visibility place without PPE? A commercial property where thousands of people see you during the day. Regardless of OSHA's "necessity" the laws are there and when you're out in the open like that you should follow them. Or hang a sign on your truck that says "fine me".

 

[HolmenTree]

Why does our workers comp and insurance go up?

Things like tree worker idiots not wearing PPE.

Think about it, a helmetless tree worker get a few concussions over time then one day he drops a tree on his groundie or a customer from his scrambled brain not functioning properly.

No brainer

 

[moss]

Why does our workers comp and insurance go up?

Things like tree worker idiots not wearing PPE.

Think about it, a helmetless tree worker get a few concussions over time then one day he drops a tree on his groundie or a customer from his scrambled brain not functioning properly.

No brainer

That's the right reason, besides having some regard for your personal health and for your friends and family members who might not appreciate you as much as a disabled person, or in a vegetative state, or dead.

Besides legalities, using OSHA as the "reason" is a good shorthand way to convince your fellow workers or employer to use PPE without having to spend a half hour explaining the economics of workers comp and insurance.
-moss

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Am I the only one who just thinks it's idiotic to work in a high visibility place without PPE? A commercial property where thousands of people see you during the day. Regardless of OSHA's "necessity" the laws are there and when you're out in the open like that you should follow them. Or hang a sign on your truck that says "fine me".

No, but many people cannot see what is wrong going to work looking like a ragpicker. Why mess up good clothes when I have these holy jeans and an Iron Maiden T-shirt with the sleeves ripped off?

I started climbing sans-helmet, and often need to talk myself into putting it on. I've been hit by falling debris, with one on and been knocked to my knees. I know why I should wear it and will not let a groundie under me without one on.

If an employer does not have a PPE policy, and there is a struck-by accident, an OSHA investigation is very likely.

 

[teamtree]

I have to say, after reading a few of Hornet's posts....I feel really dumb. I am all for a hands-off government but there really is no good argument for not wearing a safety helmet in the tree business.

Now if you want to argue about the new MLB rule in which base coaches are required to wear a helmet...now you have a real argument.


Hornett.....do you believe a helmet can save a person's life? prevent serious head trauma?

If you are going to post dumb ####, please give a reason as to why you believe you should not wear a helmet. Do you feel safer without it?

 

[hornett224]

i understand your concern.

i have looked at the helmets and i think it would absorb the impact of a small limb but that is about it.there are some nicer more expensive fiberglass helmets in the sherrill catalog that look more durable.when i worked as a plumbing welder/machine rigger we wore helmets and a guy was almost killed by an 8 inch pipe flange that fell of an air handler.no one felt the hard hat did anything.it shattered like thin glass.he still got pretty messed up.

don't get me wrong,i have no problem with an employer requiring it or an individuals choice to do it on their own.i don't think very highly of an employer that has to be forced to supply inexpensive protective equipment for his employees.i wouldn't work for someone like that.i have the stuff and it is available for anyone who may work for me.i just do not usually wear it and i don't push it on anyone.it is offered.

i will say when using the chipper,saw and stump grinder, i always use hearing muffs and think anyone who doesn't is a fool.on some types of trees when feeding the chipper i wear a helmet with muffs and a face screen to keep from getting my glasses ripped off my face.on a snowmobile and motorcycle i am not required to wear a helmet but i do by choice.i do not think anyone should be made to do so.i never wear a seatbelt and never will.again,it's a choice.

in the tree i never wear a helmet.i never drop anything without looking below me and believe no one should be under me when i'm in the tree.

i just don't think a bunch of people who are stealing from us and taking all our God given rights have any place telling me what or what not to do.they don't protect us from the scurge of humanity,hell they are trying to keep us from protecting ourselves from them.

hope this clears up where i stand.i do not expect everyone or anyone to agree with me but this is where i stand on it.i have no use for the government and probably never will.they are a very sore subject with me and i do not buy into feel good politics with no substance.

 

[hornett224]

also

at times a helmet impairs my vision.i also can see a limb getting caught on the edge of the helmet. and i like to see what is going on,even out of the corner of my eye.

i think if a person takes the extra time and plans things properly they would be a lot safer.

there are a lot of drunks and drug users in this and many industries.all the PPE in the world is not going to protect you from that.that scares me more than something hitting me in the head while i'm in a tree.this is why i have no employees and hopefully never will.

if people can't regulate them selves and the government can't regulate them selves,how is the government going to regulate the people?

 

[HolmenTree]

This thread reminds me of the safety meeting we had at our logging camp back in the mid 1970s. Helmets were mandatory company policy but eye and hearing protection were not. At this meeting the company introduced mandatory eye & hearing protection, the old fallers complained about this for months after,they whined " now they want us to work blind ,now they want us to work deaf ! " But that was soon washed away to the wayside when the company introduced mandatory chainbrakes.

Willard.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

I hear ya holmen

Yep there's always gonna be those who obviously have a problem doing what's right. Truth is, complacency kills quite often. You can't ignore the obvious in this business. Hell this stuff can be tough enough as it is, so why not make life a little easier and just suck it up and protect yourself. In the end you're protecting your family too, because if they are like my family they like me to come home everyday in one healthy piece!

Customers judge you on their first impression, that's a proven fact.
Your appearance(ie.-logos,uniforms,vehicles,equipment,and the acknowledgement of ppe guidelines) all count toward the way a customer views your practices. It means a lot to the customer when you are a safe individual. If you show no regard to your safety, then why would you to the customers safety?

I've had little old ladies say stuff like," Well you had me worried sick way up there in that tree, but seeing you were all tied in two ways and had your helmet and stuff on and all calm and stuff i knew you were safe". When the customer sees you care then they in turn care and will give you referalls to other prospects. It can be a win/win situation.

I read in the mags all the time where things happen to guys. Yes it can happen to me or you too. Most of the stuff is ppe related and could've been prevented. If i had to guess, the guys i saw the other day without the helmets on while in the air may do good work, and may be good guys, and may have been over run with thoughts of massive checks on the big job they were doing and may have been caught up in the moment and forgot to put the stuff on. Or, could just not have any at all because they are the "safest guys in the world "and want to save money so that they can stuff there pockets for an early retirement! Who knows for sure, but either way, all it's gonna take is that one 16oz throw bag out of a big shot(yes they can kill,and no you don't want to test that theory i assure you), or a 3" dead limb,etc.etc.etc.! Get the picture?


The local paper and mortuary will give you a free spot in the local paper, all you got to do is f--k up and not heed the warning. If you choose to not wear a helmet while climbing,etc. keep it to yourself because i'm sure the ones that have families and friends that care about em like myself don't want to know about it!:censored:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Who knows for sure, but either way, all it's gonna take is that one 16oz throw bag out of a big shot(yes they can kill,and no you don't want to test that theory i assure you), or a 3" dead limb,etc.etc.etc.! Get the picture?

I took a 12 oz in the back ribs, that hurt for ages! Cracked one of them.

It is not the 3 in. dia pieces it is for, but the smaller stuff that it will protect you from. Stubs and the like, 1 in spears sailing wlild on an errant breeze.

It is the preventable accident they look to ... prevent. In the construction accident mentioned, it is not the pipe (red herring argument) but a dropped nut or bolt that could crack a skull.

For the climber, it is as much the bad swing as a piece of deadwood, or a cut gone awry. Which is why a mutual acquaintance of myself and Tom D. likes to say if it does not have a chinstrap, it is not a helmet.

 

[Nailsbeats]

at times a helmet impairs my vision.i also can see a limb getting caught on the edge of the helmet. and i like to see what is going on,even out of the corner of my eye.

i think if a person takes the extra time and plans things properly they would be a lot safer.

there are a lot of drunks and drug users in this and many industries.all the PPE in the world is not going to protect you from that.that scares me more than something hitting me in the head while i'm in a tree.this is why i have no employees and hopefully never will.

if people can't regulate them selves and the government can't regulate them selves,how is the government going to regulate the people?

Hornett, I appreciate your point of view. I didn't wear a helmet for 15 years, always a cap backwards or a stocking cap in the winter, now I wear a $100 pacific kevlar with a chinstrap. I am still not completely sold on the concept.

Reasons as you mentioned are visibility, things getting caught, and in some positions I use my head to balance against stuff. That chinstrapp is a hazzard in itself just keeping it on. The helmet is strong and the small brim will keep branches from ripping across my face, especially when making a quick cut and letting the vertical limb rip right by you.

Most of these climbing helmets, like the petzls, I think are a joke. I think groundmen should have hardhats on, but in the tree I value my vision and hearing a lot. I never understood the ear protection in the tree either. I need to hear if something cracks or lets go. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems in order to see and hear you have to get a helmet that offers very little real protection thus negating the point.

Just my thoughts as I am trying to convert to wearing it all the time and have noticed it isn't all a bed of roses.

 

[treemandan]

This thread reminds me of the safety meeting we had at our logging camp back in the mid 1970s. Helmets were mandatory company policy but eye and hearing protection were not. At this meeting the company introduced mandatory eye & hearing protection, the old fallers complained about this for months after,they whined " now they want us to work blind ,now they want us to work deaf ! " But that was soon washed away to the wayside when the company introduced mandatory chainbrakes.

Willard.:hmm3grin2orange:

I remmeber taking the brakes off the little echos but now never, in fact ,I wear chain brakes out stopping my chain.
It is very hard to work with glasses. Dangerous too.