Keeping track of your costs

[Steve NW WI]

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WARNING!!! IF YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF FREE HEAT FROM WOOD, READ NO FURTHER, PRESS THE BACK BUTTON NOW!!!






I've been contemplating traveling farther to get firewood, and in the process of trying to get a handle on what it was going to cost, came up with a simple spreadsheet that lets you plug in numbers to get a cost per load, cost per cord, whatever. You can use it like I have to make decisions, use it to track actual expenses, justify buying that bigger faster saw, whatever.

I'm almost sure there's some bugs in it yet, somewhere, but I think they'll be easy to work out, just need them pointed out to me, or come up with a fix yourself and post it here. Same goes for any other improvements you can think of. This is totally "open source", I don't want or expect anything from it, except maybe some rep It does what I want it to, and if it works for someone else as well, I'm happy to help.

Here's a screenshot, sorry it's big but I didn't want to shrink it down to unreadable. I'll explain how it works after the pic:

The dark boxes are where you enter your data. If a cost for something is 0, just leave it blank. I had to do a little learning to figure out how to keep from getting errors when doing this, but it seems to be working now.

At top you can enter in your base prices for gas, bar oil, etc. I made separate rates for truck, splitter, and saw gas, since some will have three different costs running 87 in the truck, 91 in the splitter, and mixed 91 in the saws (don't forget to include the price of mix oil in your per gallon cost for saw gas). Saw fuel and oil cost is calculated at 2:1 ratio of gas to oil used, seems fairly close for me (but I have all my oilers cranked up as far as they'll go).

Below, enter mileage and distance to the wood (one way, round trip is calculated for ya), amount of fuel used, how much you got, and cost of wood. Everything else will be calculated for you, and the top right will keep a running score of cost and average cost per cord.

I have the file saved as both .odf for Open Office (what I use, and if you don't have a spreadsheet program on your computer, it's a free download) and as .xls for Microsoft Excel. Any other programs, you'll have to figure out how to import one of these two file types to your system. I can't upload them here, but I did put them on Google Docs. Haven't tried it before let me know if the links work and you can download them:

Link to ODF version

Link to XLS version

If this doesn't work for ya, email me at treerat54026 @@@@ yahoo.com with "arboristsite" in the title, and I'll email it to you. Please let me know which version you want.

 

[Circle B MN]

Pretty slick spread sheet. Looks like you put a good bit of time and effort into that one....

Does that $17 worth of misc expense include a stop at the corner pub...?


While it is good to acknowlege it, I could probably ignore labor cost. I enjoy working with wood, and consider it more of a hobby than a chore. It would certainly be a factor were you paying for a helper, laborer, etc

 

[Steve NW WI]

Pretty slick spread sheet. Looks like you put a good bit of time and effort into that one....

Does that $17 worth of misc expense include a stop at the corner pub...?


While it is good to acknowlege it, I could probably ignore labor cost. I enjoy working with wood, and consider it more of a hobby than a chore. It would certainly be a factor were you paying for a helper, laborer, etc

Easy to ignore labor, just put 0 in as your labor cost.

$17 don't go far at the local anymore, especially if you've been cutting and are in need of a refuel of the burger and fries variety as well.

Think I had about 2-3 hours of off and on working on it, and reading up on how to do certain things. If I had to do it over again, after relearning some stuff I haven't used in 10+ years, I could whip one up in about 30 minutes.

 

[AIM]

Nice looking spreadsheet. I figured mine up one time. Came to about $8 per truckload not including labor. I burn about a truckload a week in the winter so $32 a month isn't to bad.
If I figured in my labor I wouldn't burn wood.

 

[Somesawguy]

Thanks for the spreadsheet. The xls file link doesn't seem to be working. I know that if I figure my time as being worth anything at all, it would be cheaper to buy firewood.

 

[BSD]

the absolute biggest thing you missed is inputing and calculating your equipment costs.

Truck (i know "you already had that")... heard that line before too.

saw(s)
splitter
chains
files
etc.

After you have all those in the spreadsheet you'll see why people selling wood (who most of you guys call crooks) aren't actually making all that much in the end anyways.

I put together a business plan for wholesale firewood processing. the amount of wood I needed to process each year was huge if I wanted to break even. if I wanted to turn a profit... the number was STAGGERING! I have a very advanced excel sheet that did all the numbers for me.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Somesawguy, did you click on the download button at the top left of the linked page? I tried it, then clicked "save" instead of "open", and it worked for me. If you can't get it to work, shoot me an email.

the absolute biggest thing you missed is inputing and calculating your equipment costs.

Truck (i know "you already had that")... heard that line before too.

saw(s)
splitter
chains
files
etc.

After you have all those in the spreadsheet you'll see why people selling wood (who most of you guys call crooks) aren't actually making all that much in the end anyways.

I put together a business plan for wholesale firewood processing. the amount of wood I needed to process each year was huge if I wanted to break even. if I wanted to turn a profit... the number was STAGGERING! I have a very advanced excel sheet that did all the numbers for me.

Anything up to (and maybe including) saws could be listed under misc. expenses. It would not be too hard to add in an equipment expense, just a few more lines. I'll work on that in the next version, probably the next time I can't sleep or when it's raining. I can make this as complicated as we want, but tried to keep it fairly simple. (In my case, the truck and splitter have LONG since paid for themselves, and repairs would go into the misc expenses.)

I'm not commercial, so I'm not familiar with tax rules. How many years does one generally depreciate the cost of a splitter over, or other large equipment. It's been so long since any of my farm machinery was on a depreciation schedule that my memory is fuzzy, but I'm thinking 5 years is pretty common for machinery.

BTW, most of us on here have a basic idea of what is and isn't a "firewood crook", it makes you sound pretty defensive. The true commercial firewood guys know what it costs and price accordingly, the guy selling for beer money won't be in it long term, BUT another will take his place when he gives up on it. It's a fact of life in a business like this. That's probably a conversation best had in a different thread though.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Some more thoughts, I could add in costs like insurance, cost of property used to produce and or store firewood and related equipment as well, adverting expenses etc. It would take more information to work correctly, and I'm not sure the average guy wants to get that detailed, but if there's interest in it, I can make it happen at some point.

 

[CWME]

Looks like a well thought out spread sheet.

If I may suggest another line of formulas for comparison? Cost per BTU value of the wood you are getting comparing that to the cost per BTU of your "other" source of heat be it NG, Oil, Propane etc etc. Assuming you have multiple forms of heating your home.

This would help in the "is it worth it" picture.

I have to add in $700 in truck repairs this year on top of the 2 new saws, splitter motor, splitter pump, lovejoy connector, hoses etc, chains, files, helmet, gloves etc etc... Wood will be more expensive this year than oil for me. But I should be way ahead next year and years to come.

 

[EXCALIBER]

Everyone else is saying to add this or that to the spreadsheet to make it more true to real life, but I say you need columns to subtract things as well.

For instance what you would have been paying in electric/propane to run you furnace. Second the cost of a good headshrinker at several hundred dollars an hour, as I can get my therapy from the smell of two stroke in the morning, the wood chips flying, and my Dolmar 7900 laying waste to all trees before it Third, how much would it cost for us to hire a good lawyer at 500 bucks an hours to bail us out of jail because we didn't have an outlet for our anger and choked the #### out of some punk ass kid that was disrespecting us and everyone else? Instead I go home, pick up my Fiskars, and pretend that block of wood was his head, and suddenly, after a half hour, my mood has had a tremendous pickmeup.:hmm3grin2orange: Forth how much does a membership at the gym cost? I get a better workout cutting, hauling, carrying, splitting, and then stacking wood, followed by lighting a fire and watching it while doing twelve ounce curls of my favorite barley pop!

I have cut wood all my life and they will have to pry my cold lifeless fingers from my saw and axe. Very nice spreadsheet though!

 

[CWME]

Everyone else is saying to add this or that to the spreadsheet to make it more true to real life, but I say you need columns to subtract things as well.

For instance what you would have been paying in electric/propane to run you furnace. Second the cost of a good headshrinker at several hundred dollars an hour, as I can get my therapy from the smell of two stroke in the morning, the wood chips flying, and my Dolmar 7900 laying waste to all trees before it Third, how much would it cost for us to hire a good lawyer at 500 bucks an hours to bail us out of jail because we didn't have an outlet for our anger and choked the #### out of some punk ass kid that was disrespecting us and everyone else? Instead I go home, pick up my Fiskars, and pretend that block of wood was his head, and suddenly, after a half hour, my mood has had a tremendous pickmeup.:hmm3grin2orange: Forth how much does a membership at the gym cost? I get a better workout cutting, hauling, carrying, splitting, and then stacking wood, followed by lighting a fire and watching it while doing twelve ounce curls of my favorite barley pop!

I have cut wood all my life and they will have to pry my cold lifeless fingers from my saw and axe. Very nice spreadsheet though!

Now that is an awesome way of looking at it... I have had a few p1$$ ants that I would have liked, as you eloquently put it, to have "choked the #### out of" lately. Looks like I am back in the black with wood this year:msp_w00t:

 

[EXCALIBER]

Yeah me too! Last weekend took the girlfriend to see a movie. Had four little asses behind us talking loud as hell and laughing at everything, oh and not during a funny part in the movie, so I finally stood up, turned around, and told them I had already paid good money to see this movie and I WAS GOING TO SEE IT, SO ZIP YOUR MOUTHS! IT was a very quite movie from then on out!

 

[Coldfront]

It would be interesting to see what the actual savings is from going out cutting your own, or doing like me buying 10 cords logger load of oak delivered for $800 right to my cutting and stacking spot next to my garage. I know it cost me almost $9 to drive my pickup to work and back about 40 miles.

 

[gwiley]

That spreadsheet is really nifty - thanks for posting it.

When we switched from propane to wood heat it made some of the cost calcs simple - wrote checks to AmeriGAS for $5000 just for the burning season LP. Stopped buying propane once the OWB was fired. Bingo - $5000/year. Things get complicated as I try to keep equipment costs under that $5000/year

Regarding equipment, you really do want to capitalize your gear - even if you don't do it professionally. A $1000 saw (say a 372) should last a certain number of years. You need to pay attention to the amortized cost of your gear to avoid being stupid with the money. I would love to keep buying saws, but that would be just plain silly (but easy to rationalize in the heat of the moment).

I have simplified my calcs - if the wood is more than 35 minuntes away (one way) then I don't bother. If there is not enough to make at least 2 trips with the trailer (16,000lbs or more) then I am likely not going to bother. If the wood is all punky or pine then I am likely not going to try to get it.

My exception is that if I am helping someone out then I'll make the trip for mercy's sake - but knowing that I am going to take a loss on the wood I haul back.

 

[logbutcher]

Neat spreadsheet; I did one years ago when we landed Downeast on this woodlot. Money turned out to be the least important factor.

Your own woodlot as part of your home is the key to the financial angle: no travel, property tax savings with the land under Tree Growth (and Conservation Easement for us), selling pulp and sawlogs, and, the most important--the lifestyle of managing your woodland. No more scrounging, begging, or cutting weekends.

We built the place around two wood stoves for 24/7, 99% heating using all of the harvest on our land--comes out to +/- 6 cords each year for the house stoves, plus the workshop and hot tub stoves using softwood. Savings ? Well, to calculate the equivalent BTU's of oil, LP, or electricity over the 11 years since my end of service, the $$$ saved would have been easily $2000/year.

But what's more important is the life, the fun, learning how to drop big ones, learning techniques from pros AND programs (CLP,GOL) , the exercise, and the satisfaction that the winter comfort came from our land, our sweat. This was the first year we had to buy wood: a 10 cord load of 24' logs from a friend. The old jump hip was finally replaced (thanks to you taxpayers out there :tongue2, so it was no cutting or humping butts for awhile.

I don't think about the cost of saws, PPE, skidding gear, ATV, or even the programs taken years ago. I'm having too much fun out there. For you sophisticates, it's a Gestault. Nice.

 

[Iron man]

I always think about cost.
Wood. Always free.
Truck. 84 Jimmy that cost too much to acquire and there is the cost of registration insurance ect.
Splitter. Got $1400 into it now with initial cost and repairs over the last 4 years.
Saws one I got new and one used. About $600 into both.
Trailer got new. $1400
Mist little things like gloves extra chains whatever. Not sure $100
Every trip I make cost 20-30 to fuel the truck.There's gas to run the splitter and saws.Gatorade.Lots of gatorade.Even with the initial start up cost to be able to be self reliant in my wood burning its worth it because even though it was a little pricey to get going in the end I have all the neat toys not having to buy oil.Plus my house was never kept as warm with the oil because of the cost.

 

[BSD]

sorry, I was a little cranky this morning...

as for my comments, it wasn't so much for tax purposes, but you have to figure in your equipment costs to find a true cost per cord (or a "close-enough" number that's actually accurate.

a saw is good for 10 years or 150 cords? I dunno, you tell me. You have to account for buying a new one when the old one is dead. so if you buy a $900 saw and it lasts you 10 years, your cost per $90/year. However, if you want to be able to buy a new one at year 10 you need to figure it actually @ $180 per year.

a splitter is good for 3000 hours or? 300 cords? 3000 cords? 30,000 cords? depends on your setup. again, double your cost per hour to be able buy a new one when you need to replace it.

lets say you use 12 chains a year@ $25/pop.

Those nickels and dimes add up to big numbers in the end.

 

[Iron man]

12 chains a year?Don't know how much you cut but my first chain lasted 3 seasons and the only reason I got a new one is because I hit a rock.It is savable just haven't taken the time to put a good edge on it.

 

[Diesel nut]

I always like hearing people say oh you burn wood? I love the smell of wood burning they say. I know they're jealous.

 

[Steve2910]

12 chains a year?Don't know how much you cut but my first chain lasted 3 seasons and the only reason I got a new one is because I hit a rock.It is savable just haven't taken the time to put a good edge on it.

Mine usually need to be sharpened after a few tanks of gas, or less. That's w/o them hitting dirt. You must have nicer wood where you live!