Kickback sensor

[ewan]

Hi,
I am an Electrical & Electronic student researching a electronic device that would help with the kickback problem. I know there is already a manual brake and a inertia brake installed on most chainsaws, but could an electronic sensor work better, it would use a sensor (e.g. accelerometer and/or a gyroscope) to detect the sudden kickback and cause the chain-brake. Could this work better than the chain-brake system that are installed at the minute? The electronic sensor would have a quicker reaction time.
Thanks

 

[Del_]

The inertia brake system works great.

...and it ain't broken.

Sounds like you have an expensive fix in mind.

 

[ATH]

Are there instances where your proposed sensor would prevent injury? For example, the saw kicks. The inertia break reacts in (I don't know the number... making it up here) 0.2 seconds while your device stops it in 0.1 seconds. The chain is still at before making contact with the user.

Also while a digital accelerometer may sense the kickback sooner, it still needs to trigger a physical stop. How much of the current breaking time is saved with that in mind?

Finally, inside a chainsaw is a rough place to be. One tiny wire cut and the digital system is not functioning. Probably would need it connected to ignition so it shuts the saw off of it is disabled?

I like the idea of thinking of better ways to keep chainsaw users safer...just not sure this is it. Just don't see the gains to have a favorable cost:benefit outcome.

 

[frank_]

ball bearing inertia switch (like early fuel injection systems ) would work ok with brushless motors
too slow for brushed tho

 

[lone wolf]

Hi,
I am an Electrical & Electronic student researching a electronic device that would help with the kickback problem. I know there is already a manual brake and a inertia brake installed on most chainsaws, but could an electronic sensor work better, it would use a sensor (e.g. accelerometer and/or a gyroscope) to detect the sudden kickback and cause the chain-brake. Could this work better than the chain-brake system that are installed at the minute? The electronic sensor would have a quicker reaction time.
Thanks

I would think a sensor of human presence with electronic stop of the feeder wheels for a brush chipper is much needed.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I wonder if you could do something with wristbands... if they broke a plane it would automatically stop the feed wheels... could even put chips in gloves...

 

[TheJollyLogger]

As far as the kickback sensor goes, I don't see how you could improve on the inertial brake, to be honest.

 

[lone wolf]

I wonder if you could do something with wristbands... if they broke a plane it would automatically stop the feed wheels... could even put chips in gloves...

Infrared motion detector maybe?

 

[lone wolf]

As far as the kickback sensor goes, I don't see how you could improve on the inertial brake, to be honest.

Right they are basic and dependable.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Infrared motion detector maybe?

I was thinking maybe like an NFC chip in the gloves, with sensors around the feed chute... the technology is there

 

[ATH]

I wonder if you could do something with wristbands... if they broke a plane it would automatically stop the feed wheels... could even put chips in gloves...

Like these?:
http://www.salsco.com/videos/sss-salsco-safety-shield.html

 

[lone wolf]

Like these?:
http://www.salsco.com/videos/sss-salsco-safety-shield.html

I like that.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Well, ****, I'm a day late and a dollar short, as always...

 

[ewan]

Are there instances where your proposed sensor would prevent injury? For example, the saw kicks. The inertia break reacts in (I don't know the number... making it up here) 0.2 seconds while your device stops it in 0.1 seconds. The chain is still at before making contact with the user.

Also while a digital accelerometer may sense the kickback sooner, it still needs to trigger a physical stop. How much of the current breaking time is saved with that in mind?

Finally, inside a chainsaw is a rough place to be. One tiny wire cut and the digital system is not functioning. Probably would need it connected to ignition so it shuts the saw off of it is disabled?

I like the idea of thinking of better ways to keep chainsaw users safer...just not sure this is it. Just don't see the gains to have a favorable cost:benefit outcome.

Thanks for your response. How well does the Inertia brake work? Is it reliable ? I have watched numerous video where it takes 2/3 attempts for the inertia system to operate the chain brake.
Does the inertia system save from any other instances ? e.g. chainsaw throwing you back?
The electronic sensor would operate quicker and more reliably than the inertia system and would help the amateur user, for example if the inertia system did not operate and the amateur user did not know how to operate the hand brake correctly.
Also, if you have any other problems we could look into in general for tools or machines it would be great.
Thanks

 

[ATH]

Inertia break is extremely reliable. The "problem" I see from amateurs and pros alike:
1) not setting it when starting or carrying the saw around.
2) with amateur users just picking up a saw and using it, don't know how to disengage it because they never use it.

If the saw kicks back really hard, it may still strike the user, but the chain will have been stopped. But without a counter weight how would you stop that? Nothing can react until the kixkbat movement starts....or it would give too many "false alarms" and trigger too often.

 

[3jakes]

Hi,
I am an Electrical & Electronic student researching a electronic device that would help with the kickback problem. I know there is already a manual brake and a inertia brake installed on most chainsaws, but could an electronic sensor work better, it would use a sensor (e.g. accelerometer and/or a gyroscope) to detect the sudden kickback and cause the chain-brake. Could this work better than the chain-brake system that are installed at the minute? The electronic sensor would have a quicker reaction time.
Thanks

There is probably a slot open for you at the EPA designing gas cans.

 

[no tree to big]

Like these?:
http://www.salsco.com/videos/sss-salsco-safety-shield.html

There are these as well same concept
https://woodchippersafetyshield.com/photos
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[northmanlogging]

Hi,
I am an Electrical & Electronic student researching a electronic device that would help with the kickback problem. I know there is already a manual brake and a inertia brake installed on most chainsaws, but could an electronic sensor work better, it would use a sensor (e.g. accelerometer and/or a gyroscope) to detect the sudden kickback and cause the chain-brake. Could this work better than the chain-brake system that are installed at the minute? The electronic sensor would have a quicker reaction time.
Thanks

Few things to consider...

the existing inertia based brakes work very well, though not 100%

any new tech or adapted tech, would need to be absolutely reliable, no BS it works or it gets smashed with a hammer

It needs to be light, chainsaws are already heavy, adding more weight like batteries and friction brakes, or solenoids will not win any friends.

any sort of "breaking of a plane" type device such as a wrist band, mercury switches or some other sort of positional sensor will get smashed with a hammer, especially if its something that needs to be worn by the user.

any type of electrical sensor, will have wires, wires get cut abraded, pulled, corrode, and generally fail when needed. Samesies for circuit (circus) boards, more so really, no amount of celastic goo will protect them forever

Chainsaws are meant to be abused to some extent, weather, dirt, vibration, impact, abuse, lack of maintenance, are all daily factors, things that fragile electronics tend to not put up with.

As stated before, the existing inertia brakes work very well, annoyingly well when new and clean, the flap handle pulls double duty in keeping your hand out of the chain area both during a kick back, as well as just general saw use, the brake is sensitive for what it is, and reliable. Further more, if the brake is disabled or tampered with, the saw becomes useless, unless completely removed, as many folks have done in the past, but its a major operation to pull off, a

 

[barker7]

I am an Electrical & Electronic student researching a electronic device that would help with the kickback problem

You may be interested in the SawStop table saw that stop the blade the moment it touches your finger. Of course they demo it by pushing a hot dog into the spinning blade. Although this is a different problem, since you are doing research SawStop would be worth mentioning in your literature survey. I've seen the SawStop demoed live a few times and the brake is spectacularly fast and violent.



Good luck!

 

[ATH]

It is also very heavy and destructive (intended to be a replaceable part). It also prune to false triggering in wet wood...

It is impressive technology and a great idea. Just not sure sawstop has any correlation to chainsaw kickback except they both entail user safety...